MarnokMod .34

[xienwolf]

Love the new mechanic for lost units

 

[Verdian]

I played a game using this last night, and had a lot of fun. Here are a list of oddities and bugs I encountered.

-Two patches of visibile map appeared when I had no unit present. They appeared around the time a unit of mine was trapped and killed or freed. BUT, not where the unit was, just nearby.

-The Pool event triggered, I got a message that my unit saw visions of skills my people did not possess, and nothing happened.

-The AI does not know what to do with tribal villages within its borders.

-Powerful bosses spawned from dungeons are not wandering, nor are their henchmen.

-When a powerful boss appears, my unit gets pushed 2 to four tiles off of the dungeon. Shouldn't it be one?

-May want to up the spawn rate on Haunted Graveyards. In 140 turns, I had one specter appear.

-I am not sure if you changed the item spawn rate from events, but I got 2 rods of wind.

This next one is weird, and I am not sure if it is intended:
-I got the "Terrible Foe in the Heart of the Lair" event from a barrow. Both options say they give -2 to the armageddeon counter. I decided to try and kill the foe. Note that I had triggered it while having four warriors selected. One of my units vanished, and the rest were pushed two tiles into a city of mine. A turn or two later, a barbarian warrior appeared on the tile (it looked like a normal warrior, not an orc). I figured this was the foe, or my unit was driven mad, but I got no message. I easily killed it. Many turns later (I think around 20 or 30), my unit reappeared with all of its upgrades and exp.

I look forward to the next update, and I love the new events.

 

[Marnok]

I played a game using this last night, and had a lot of fun. Here are a list of oddities and bugs I encountered.

-Two patches of visibile map appeared when I had no unit present. They appeared around the time a unit of mine was trapped and killed or freed. BUT, not where the unit was, just nearby.

Aha, I need to work on that then. There's a chance of your unit freeing themselves, but appearing far away. I think if that happens, I need to make it that they always survive. Perhaps they are turning up dead there. If you don't spot the message (or it doesn't appear) it would be hard to know what happened.

-The Pool event triggered, I got a message that my unit saw visions of skills my people did not possess, and nothing happened.

I'll test that when I can, I must have typed something wrong. You are meant to get a boost to research I think.

-The AI does not know what to do with tribal villages within its borders.

I'll give it some heavy hints.

-Powerful bosses spawned from dungeons are not wandering, nor are their henchmen.

Yep. There's an AI control thing. Sometimes they will sit and guard for a while. I'll check again, they are meant to decide to go wandering at a later date.

-When a powerful boss appears, my unit gets pushed 2 to four tiles off of the dungeon. Shouldn't it be one?

Yes. Wonder if I've got a reference to "caster" instead of the boss when henchmen spawn? But then there should be a trail of henchies... I'll examine.

-May want to up the spawn rate on Haunted Graveyards. In 140 turns, I had one specter appear.

OK, I'll look into it. Of course you can change this yourself in settings.py!

-I am not sure if you changed the item spawn rate from events, but I got 2 rods of wind.

No change, must be a fluke.

Spoiler :

Of course, in the next update, there are a half dozen new items to find so things like this should be less common.

This next one is weird, and I am not sure if it is intended:
-I got the "Terrible Foe in the Heart of the Lair" event from a barrow. Both options say they give -2 to the armageddeon counter. I decided to try and kill the foe. Note that I had triggered it while having four warriors selected. One of my units vanished, and the rest were pushed two tiles into a city of mine. A turn or two later, a barbarian warrior appeared on the tile (it looked like a normal warrior, not an orc). I figured this was the foe, or my unit was driven mad, but I got no message. I easily killed it. Many turns later (I think around 20 or 30), my unit reappeared with all of its upgrades and exp.

EDIT: did you have some way to see invisible? The LOST unit becomes an invisible, held Barbarian unit. If you can see invisible you would see it there. I need a True Invisibility option! like "system invisible" - not a spell effect but a game interface thing. /EDIT Sounds mostly right. The AC thing is wrong, only the noble self-sacrifice from the first option should give -AC. I don't know why your units were pushed out, the one who dived in to save them and the world ("fly you fools!") became 'Lost', which is the idea of this event. You get a choice of either having a unit become Lost or spawning a bigbad. Your gamble paid off. Much later your unit emerged - it had done the job, defeated the enemy and emerged victorious!

I look forward to the next update, and I love the new events.

Thanks, I am working on another update but my computer is going wierd (won't boot to my main installation, typing this on a spare backup install, but main drive looks fine from here...!)

 

[Marnok]

OK, the "pushing units more than one tile away" problem seems to be a multiple-unit-casting problem. That is, if you select 10 units on the lair and hit Explore with all of them, they will all cast even if they have been kicked out of the lair. I need to figure out how to interrupt and cancel the casting if the unit has moved before it is resolved.

EDIT: just tested this. It seems to be remembering the "pPlot" where the explore spell was cast, because multiple foes are being spawned at that spot in my test - even if I have left a trail of 5 "lost" warriors first.
I also put a test in to recheck the plot contains a lair in the explore spell - it seems that by the time you get the "event" dialog up, the game has already processed the exploration. It's a bit of a mess, I'll have to have a think what to do about it. This must be the same type of problem which affected treasure chests, so maybe there's a clue there.

 

[xienwolf]

There is a "True Invisible" option, either you can set the <bInvisible> tag, or you can use INVISIBLE_ALL, which just happens not to have any units in the game capable of seeing that type. Though the way that Dies Dieie is written they won't hide you in their territory.

 

[Marnok]

There is a "True Invisible" option, either you can set the <bInvisible> tag, or you can use INVISIBLE_ALL, which just happens not to have any units in the game capable of seeing that type. Though the way that Dies Dieie is written they won't hide you in their territory.

Thanks, I checked and the LOST promo has <bInvisible> set, so I am thinking Deis Dei must have been to blame. I hope it was that, anyway.

NOW... to fix the multie-click thing. The closest I had was with visits to villages in an earlier version, meant only one person per turn could visit them. Maybe I'll make lairs one explore per turn too? It probably won't change gameplay too much, and might solve this odd problem.

 

[Verdian]

Actually, of the three lairs I explored that spawned something, I only searched one with multiple units (the Terrible Foe event). The other two I just used one unit, and I was still pushed several squares away. One of the times was in someone elses borders, I am not sure if that would effect it at all.

When the barbarian unit spawned from the "Terrible Foe" event, I had no invisibility spotting units around, just normal warriors.

As for bosses and minions not wandering, of the one set that spawned, none of them moved for over 120 turns. I had to wait until I had enough powerful units to crush them. They even picked up a barbarian friend while they waited.

The Pool event may have granted me extra research. I did not think to look.

 

[Marnok]

I've only seen multi-plot-push with multiple explorers, so I've not recreated your situation yet.

I don't know how you came to see the "lost" unit. I'll need more feedback to figure out how it happened.

In the next release I'll shake up barbs in lairs to ensure that they get out and stretch their legs a bit.

 

[Blackmantle]

I found 2 Python exceptions from exploring lairs (both likely tied to a broken event).

1 at the result where you find the old women transfixed by her canvas when picking the option to help her finish her work (the -2 AC Option...) (Does break the game with a ctd shortly afterward. Happened 3 times out of 4 times that event came up...)

The other one was with the pool when the result with the unit shaking off its past experiences and seeing visions of its new fate (didn't break my game so nothing all to bad).
I also have no idea what this result does.
The + research and the revealing of a far away part of the map (very neat new description for that old mechanics... Goody hut Maps should be changed to that effect as well in the main game imo.
I play with normal huts as usual for me. ) results definitely work for me though.

That said its a very neat and polished experience now overall (and i truly like the new "unit gone missing" effect (miles better than unit = dead). Hawks do seem to see the unit though. Happened on recon and when they have been based on a hunter gone missing by the event they stay around next to the dungeon (still based on said hunter perhaps?) and see the hunter.)

The golem-laboratory thing seems a bit off though (given how often it appears. I presume its a neutral result? Whould be sensible, sorts of...).
A flesh golem right from the start might be a bit! over the top (even though i very! much like it since its very similar to the stellar Lizardmen vs. Dwarves event in many ways... ).
Perhaps put in place some kind of tech requirement? (construction might be a sensible spot given that some civs get it early while others delay it without it being a very late tech and its fitting flavorwise... Thats one event so good it should be put into the main mod without much doubt... )

Also a possibility to get an very early wizard (with access to a very! powerful sphere for that part of the game no less. ) if you are very lucky (Priest with command 1 and a lucky combat...). But that makes the event all the better given how unlikely such a feat is overall... (Thats quite an emergent quest along the lines of what Kael likes so much...)

 

[Verdian]

I've only seen multi-plot-push with multiple explorers, so I've not recreated your situation yet.

The only thing I can think of with this is my unit was pushed into the borders of another civ that I did not have open borders with, and thus was moved as if I was kicked out of their territory. Except with the "multiple units exploring at once" in the "Terrible Foe" event. That was inside my own borders. In that instance, my units were moved 2 places into a city. There was a mountain between the lair and my city, though, so maybe the units were trying to move where the mountain was and were pushed one further?

I don't know how you came to see the "lost" unit. I'll need more feedback to figure out how it happened.

The unit/lair was in my own borders, would that effect it? Other than that, nothing unusual was done. I will see if I have a save from around that time...

Edit: Thinking further, I am not sure the barbarian warrior I saw was my unit at all. I killed it, after all, and still got my original unit back many turns later. This was probably just a bug because I searched a lair with more than one unit. I will avoid that in the future.

 

[Marnok]

I found 2 Python exceptions from exploring lairs (both likely tied to a broken event).

1 at the result where you find the old women transfixed by her canvas when picking the option to help her finish her work (the -2 AC Option...) (Does break the game with a ctd shortly afterward. Happened 3 times out of 4 times that event came up...)


The other one was with the pool when the result with the unit shaking off its past experiences and seeing visions of its new fate (didn't break my game so nothing all to bad).

Thanks for letting me know, I'll try those results a few dozen times and try to repeat. Also I'll put some try: except: block in to catch errors and avoid nastiness.

That said its a very neat and polished experience now overall (and i truly like the new "unit gone missing" effect (miles better than unit = dead). Hawks do seem to see the unit though. Happened on recon and when they have been based on a hunter gone missing by the event they stay around next to the dungeon (still based on said hunter perhaps?) and see the hunter.)

hm, I need to check if this is a basic problem with invis, whether I am using it wrong.

The golem-laboratory thing seems a bit off though (given how often it appears. I presume its a neutral result? Whould be sensible, sorts of...).
A flesh golem right from the start might be a bit! over the top (even though i very! much like it since its very similar to the stellar Lizardmen vs. Dwarves event in many ways... ).
Perhaps put in place some kind of tech requirement? (construction might be a sensible spot given that some civs get it early while others delay it without it being a very late tech and its fitting flavorwise... Thats one event so good it should be put into the main mod without much doubt... )

Yes an early flesh golem is perhaps a litle powerful, though it isn't exactly certain I might adjust the balance - alter the chances of success based on techs, perhaps spawn hostiles at the same time or give the golem a "glitch" promotion (crazed, weak, etc)

Also a possibility to get an very early wizard (with access to a very! powerful sphere for that part of the game no less. ) if you are very lucky (Priest with command 1 and a lucky combat...). But that makes the event all the better given how unlikely such a feat is overall... (Thats quite an emergent quest along the lines of what Kael likes so much...)

Yes, I am looking at more "story-element" type events. The popularity of the DvL event and the emergent story thread prove these are an amazing thing in the game, so I plan on trying to figure out more ideas for these. (If my site wasn't down I'd direct you to look at my fantasy adventure idea generator - try marnok.com in an hour or so!) If we had a few dozen events and explore results of the calibre of DvL, even amending existing events with new options, the game feels more alive.

I almost had an emergent story when Hippus declared war on me and that very turn, a unit who had been Lost in a dungeon for a dozen turns, popped out, buff and sporting a Great Commander! I say almost, because he got killed before he could get home and save the empire. It WOULD have been a fantastic story though!

 

[Marnok]

updated again - new bugs seeking somewhere to happen!

27/11/08
- Various bug fixes. try/except added to functions which reported errors - most of the reported errors were due to speeling errors in unit names I think, the function should now catch these if there are any more I haven't corrected.
- Can now only explore each lair once per turn. This is to resolve oddity when multiple units are given order to explore as a whole stack. (Note to self : Workaround - could add another "spell" which dosn't count as casted, which opens the dungeon again - sets last_explored back to -1 and means "explore" can be reselected. Sounds fiddly though, and a one per turn rule seems fair.)
- Added various items
- Altered treasure chest loot - should now get better rewards from chests (on average)
- custom find item scripts first attempt to place item on finder, if it can't then item is dropped to floor. Saves a turn picking up items which have been discovered - also means items found in explorable lair are often usable when found (no requirement to clear rest of lair first)

 

[Skitters]

tried to download this last night, but frustratingly I think I'm a luddite!

Copied 2.034 and renamed MarnokMod and then downloaded the rar file, but when I tried to use WinAce to extract the files (in the MarnokMod folder) absolutely bo diddley happens. I'm thinking that WinAce is not so...ace. Any suggestions of a different application to try?!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

winrar should work fine

 

[Marnok]

nah, a luddite is someone who deliberatley destroys technology, historically because it was taking people's jobs.

I'm using winrar.

 

[Blackmantle]

7-Zip (free open source ) does work rather well with this and other packed files...

 

[Marnok]

uploaded a small fix, forgot the new item pickup and take xml...

 

[Marnok]

THINKING:

I may amend Epic Lairs so that instead of just "only produce big good or big bad results", they can still produce a full range of results, but are only cleared when a big good or big bad result is produced. So they just last longer, still there until a Big result clears them. As another option, maybe only a Big Good will actually clear them (some of my big bads will involve Boss monsters taking over the plot, or units being 'lost', so it would be good if the improvement was still there!)

What do you all think? Anyone think of good reasons not to?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I like the way FF handles epic lairs, i.e. they are never fully cleared, and they can be successfully explored once every 100 turns or so. deleting them from the map after exploration just feels lame since they are supposed to be important landmarks

 

[Marnok]

I like the way FF handles epic lairs, i.e. they are never fully cleared, and they can be successfully explored once every 100 turns or so. deleting them from the map after exploration just feels lame since they are supposed to be important landmarks

Well I could create copies of the landmarks which are not explorable, then create a mechanism to switch them back to being Epic Lairs at appropriate times.