xienwolf
Deity
Nice setup 
I love it when initial programming proves versatile for future ideas
I love it when initial programming proves versatile for future ideas 
MarnokMod .34
- Thread starter Marnok
- Start date
Verdian
King
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 654
So, here are two event ideas I had. The first I think you may already be planning, but I wanted to mention it anyway. It is a take on the classic Fetch quest.
Basically, it would be triggered either at a dungeon or to a random unit. A pop-up would... pop up and inform the player that it needs to go retrieve an item. This event would trigger the creation of two things on the map. First, it would create a landmark object on the square the event triggered. This could be a generic looking item, like a cross. The other would be an item, that the player would need to fetch and bring back to the landmark item.
For example:
This event could even force the item to spawn in other players' territory or cities, to create some interesting scenarios.
The second, much simplier event would be a result from a dungeon or lair that created units for another player. These would be based on tech level, and would give you a diplomacy modifier with that player. There could even be a choice of whether you let them live or just kill them (giving a negative diplo modifier).
Basically, it would be triggered either at a dungeon or to a random unit. A pop-up would... pop up and inform the player that it needs to go retrieve an item. This event would trigger the creation of two things on the map. First, it would create a landmark object on the square the event triggered. This could be a generic looking item, like a cross. The other would be an item, that the player would need to fetch and bring back to the landmark item.
For example:
Spoiler :
This event could even force the item to spawn in other players' territory or cities, to create some interesting scenarios.
The second, much simplier event would be a result from a dungeon or lair that created units for another player. These would be based on tech level, and would give you a diplomacy modifier with that player. There could even be a choice of whether you let them live or just kill them (giving a negative diplo modifier).
Skitters
Prince
Okay, third game started, still loving it.
I think part of the visibility issues I was having were related to Muris Foul waste - if your on a tile affected by it, you can't see the tiles surrounding you (unless it's in your cultural borders).
I can't make my mind up of whether I like this as a feature, or whether it causes a few too many palpatations when your unit suddenly finds itself attacking something it couldn't see! I think I'm erring on the side of like it(perhaps because of the palpatations!), and will just need to be a bit more careful about the route being taken in future! Also gives some reason to care about the territory around your cultural borders
Doesn't explain the FOG around the scout who ended up on t'other side of the world, and not seen it happen again since (unless perhaps he'd ended up on a tile with fouling too, which wouldn't surprise me too much as there had been a fair amount around...as I said before, the filthy blighters)
I'm finding other civs have become more of a side issue for the first couple of hundred turns, as your early civ battles to establish self. Suspect long term that I could be in for a nasty hit when I discover Auric is all set to ascend, and the Elohim AV believers are close to bringing Erebus to an untimely demise...
http://www.marnok.com/Civ4/MarnokX.rar
OK, MarnokX file - experimental and probably broken! If you are feeling brave, please download and test for me. (I have played a few hundred turns and there's no obvious flaws, I'm just not certain how effective the changes are!)
What this is meant to do:
Adds Area Control, certain improvements can be "claimed" and stamp culture around them. Culture grows based on number of units holding the improvement. List of claimable improvements is user-editable in settings.py - default is tribal village, ancient tower, fort/castle/citadel.
This process hasn't slowed anything down noticably on my system I have noticed AI claiming areas so that seems to be working at least.
Forts are buildable with a "spell" mechanic by workers and slaves, not buildable in regular manner so we should see less fort-spam! The idea is that forts get built where they are genuinely needed, I have yet to see this happen though.
I also have a complex-and-wonderful system to encourage AI units to guard key positions and later, will be able to call a worker to their position to build a fort. In spite of my brilliant scripting, I have no reason to suspect that this is actually doing anything! So I would appreciate feedback.
More is coming, but I need to devise a series of tests.
Probably :
test 1 : remove barb lairs and give each civ 20 workers, see what they do regarding Forts.
test 2 : custom game with all civs, see what happens on borders.
OK, MarnokX file - experimental and probably broken! If you are feeling brave, please download and test for me. (I have played a few hundred turns and there's no obvious flaws, I'm just not certain how effective the changes are!)
What this is meant to do:
Adds Area Control, certain improvements can be "claimed" and stamp culture around them. Culture grows based on number of units holding the improvement. List of claimable improvements is user-editable in settings.py - default is tribal village, ancient tower, fort/castle/citadel.
This process hasn't slowed anything down noticably on my system I have noticed AI claiming areas so that seems to be working at least.
Forts are buildable with a "spell" mechanic by workers and slaves, not buildable in regular manner so we should see less fort-spam! The idea is that forts get built where they are genuinely needed, I have yet to see this happen though.
I also have a complex-and-wonderful system to encourage AI units to guard key positions and later, will be able to call a worker to their position to build a fort. In spite of my brilliant scripting, I have no reason to suspect that this is actually doing anything! So I would appreciate feedback.
More is coming, but I need to devise a series of tests.
Probably :
test 1 : remove barb lairs and give each civ 20 workers, see what they do regarding Forts.
test 2 : custom game with all civs, see what happens on borders.
Okay, I'm testing, and I don't know if this is intended behavior, but Acheron is holed up in Jubilee with 8 Scorpion clan archers, 6 warriors, 10 (!) Spectres, and Orthus. I think I'll just leave him alone this game...
Turn 168, normal speed, Erebus.
EDIT: Nevermind, 100 turns later they came to me
couple other things, when staking a claim, sometimes you get one tile of your culture, and the other 8 are barbarian. Also, sometimes you lose the ability to stake a claim and there's just random barbarian culture on the map.
Turn 168, normal speed, Erebus.
EDIT: Nevermind, 100 turns later they came to me
couple other things, when staking a claim, sometimes you get one tile of your culture, and the other 8 are barbarian. Also, sometimes you lose the ability to stake a claim and there's just random barbarian culture on the map.![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
improvements generating culture is great, but I'm really excited about forts being built with a spell. fort-spamming automated workers freak me out. 
ooooboy. maybe it's his birthday? got a few mates round?
EDIT: Nevermind, 100 turns later they came to me
I'll check into the barb-culture thing, not sure why that would happen unless there was some "latent" barb culture points in the plot but without ownership (like when you lose a city, but regain it later and your culture is still there). In that case, the barb culture migh be sitting there waiting for the script to say "whoever is the highest culture gets the plot". This is one point where my script differs from normal culture; in the basic system, you could only get that plot turning to the culture if there was a current source of culture affecting the plot.
Wehn you say you lose the ability to claim, you mean there's a claimable improvement but you don't get the option up? If this is the case I can think of 1 of 2 things at the moment.
1. There is an invisible barb unit on the plot.
2. The plot is actually CLAIMED by you, but has more barb culture. This didn't ought to happen - the central plot is forced to your ownership when you claim, but I wonder if it could be converted later? I'll check. The in-game resolution to that would be, leave a unit in the plot for a few turns and it ought to generate more culture, making the claim stick.
Does anyone have a copy of MarnokX.rar from a few hours ago? I somehow managed to lose all the work I did in MarnokAIControl in CVSpellInterface.py - no idea how, but by the time I realised I had already copied the older file everywhere AND uploaded a new version!
I can rebuild it, I remember what I did, but it would be a pain in the neck to have to. So if anyone who downloaded it has a copy with all the iDr and iDefender etc. adjustments, please send it back to me!!
I can rebuild it, I remember what I did, but it would be a pain in the neck to have to. So if anyone who downloaded it has a copy with all the iDr and iDefender etc. adjustments, please send it back to me!!
I'll elaborate. There were two ancient towers adjacent to each other in a nice chokepoint. The northern one was at the center of a 3x3 barbarian culture square. When I moved a unit onto the tower, I was able to clear it. I was not able to stake a claim, however. The southern tower was clearable and claimable, but the northern tower's barbarian culture was 'stronger' and I only got 4 tiles of culture from claiming the southern one. I'm pretty sure there was not an invisible monster on the northern tower (I had Amurite adepts with meta I everywhere - MarnokLand is a terrifying place). I ended up razing the tower to try to clear the culture, but it stuck around until a new city's culture pushed over it.
I have a copy of MarnokX.rar at home, I'll post it here tonight.
btw - I really like the new claim system
, although it often doesn't make much sense 
. I managed to claim a tribal village on a hill far from my territory, and had them 'join' me, which turned the village into a mine. The barbarians seemed to ignore it (I left it undefended for ~80 turns) and I got a nice culture sentry/healing depot in the wasteland. I also used a similar trick (claiming distant features) with an invisible worker (yay potions) to hook up copper from far away, but that one got razed so I had to defend it.TIA for the rar! That will teach me to use proper version control
There is a "feature" of the claim system that you mentioned - if a lair/village is removed, the culture remains. I realised this would happen and just left it, eventually it will be overwritten by someone else's culture. It saves a lot of data tracking, though it does look a bit odd. I don't think it is very exploitative though, especially when I get the village-interaction stuff in and it may be preferrable to keep a distant village as a village rather than converting it or raiding it away (either of which protect the claim). Also Raiding a village will probably slap you with a culture penalty in the area!
There is a "feature" of the claim system that you mentioned - if a lair/village is removed, the culture remains. I realised this would happen and just left it, eventually it will be overwritten by someone else's culture. It saves a lot of data tracking, though it does look a bit odd. I don't think it is very exploitative though, especially when I get the village-interaction stuff in and it may be preferrable to keep a distant village as a village rather than converting it or raiding it away (either of which protect the claim). Also Raiding a village will probably slap you with a culture penalty in the area!
giddion
Crusader
Just a few minor comments on MarnokX.
I like the idea of being able to claim towers and forts, but this should not be extended to villages. Also it should be a requirement that a unit resides in that fort/tower, else within 5 turns it should revert to barb control, unless it is inside your city cultural border.
I had a problem with the Death Node World feature, I lost a unit to an event searching the tile, They were carrying an item "Heart Amulet", When I got another unit to that location the Heart Amulet was there and was claimed as my civ's when I entered the tile. But I was unable to pick it up. This was the case until I had cleared the events from that feature.
I like the idea of being able to claim towers and forts, but this should not be extended to villages. Also it should be a requirement that a unit resides in that fort/tower, else within 5 turns it should revert to barb control, unless it is inside your city cultural border.
I had a problem with the Death Node World feature, I lost a unit to an event searching the tile, They were carrying an item "Heart Amulet", When I got another unit to that location the Heart Amulet was there and was claimed as my civ's when I entered the tile. But I was unable to pick it up. This was the case until I had cleared the events from that feature.
giddion
Crusader
hahahaha....
I built a city next to a tower that had been barb claimed on and off over several turns, it was unclaimed when I built my city in the adjacent tile. I had 1 warrior in the newly built city and 1 in the adjacent tower. To expand the city border I attempted to claim the tower, this caused it to expand a barb culture border and my new city to revolt into barb control.
hahahaha...
Feature or bug?
I built a city next to a tower that had been barb claimed on and off over several turns, it was unclaimed when I built my city in the adjacent tile. I had 1 warrior in the newly built city and 1 in the adjacent tower. To expand the city border I attempted to claim the tower, this caused it to expand a barb culture border and my new city to revolt into barb control.
hahahaha...
Feature or bug?
If you don't like villages bein controllabel, just edit the settings.py in the python folder, ding the lControllable list and remove IMPROVEMENT_TRIBAL_VILLAGE. Always thinking of customer preference!
I am thinking about ways to "uncontrol" a feature, but without doing too much calculation which could slow things down. But yes, something needs to be done.
This is correct behaviour - items in lairs are "loot" and you have to clear the dungeon to get hold of them. Treasure chests too. If your unit dies in a lair, the lair denizens will scurry away with your stuff and hide it! It also means I can spawn itms in events, letting you see there is a Horn of Battle or whatever in the lair to encourage players to explore and clear them.
I'll say "bug"! I can definately stop the culture-spread to cities from these features. I'll also stop culture-spread to other controllable features, I think, or maybe only other controllables not owned by the same player.
I might actually put a check in, and only set culture to top player *when it is the culture of the player claiming the lair*. That will stop a lot of the oddness.
Thanks for the feedback, I've got some better ideas how to handle things now!
giddion
Crusader
Another thing I should have mentioned is that when a tower is claimed it grows in to a castle without having the tech to allow it. This only occurs on towers that are claimed not the ones that are inside your cultural border unclaimed.
I don't think the culture from a village that was converted to a mine or farm should remain.
Also is there anyway to make animals ignore culture from claimed towers etc, and only obey the cultural city borders, else the animals deplete and get isolated really quick.
Last one... I cleared a lizard den from within my city cultural border and lizards continued to spawn in the same plot, they never attacked, always fled in the other direction.
EDIT: Luv the mod... haven't seen the spell to get workers to come and build towers, but I may have misunderstood that part and it is coming.
I don't think the culture from a village that was converted to a mine or farm should remain.
Also is there anyway to make animals ignore culture from claimed towers etc, and only obey the cultural city borders, else the animals deplete and get isolated really quick.
Last one... I cleared a lizard den from within my city cultural border and lizards continued to spawn in the same plot, they never attacked, always fled in the other direction.
EDIT: Luv the mod... haven't seen the spell to get workers to come and build towers, but I may have misunderstood that part and it is coming.
Odd! I'll look into that.
At the moment, it would take more processing to decay the claim than it takes to process them at present. What I am thinking is, perhaps keep a running total of the claim culture on the plot and remove it if the improvement is destroyed.
I can't think of one at present. Maybe animals ought to be able to cross borders anyway? I'm not sure what the "keep out" policy is adding to the game to be honest. Messes up Hill Giants too.
Bah, I thought I'd stopped that. What I'll do, I will put a specific check int eh spawn function to see if there is an improvement there and if not, clear the spawn. The problem is that the data is linked to the plot, not to the improvement. I had allowed spawning anyway in case I wanted to use the system to spawn animals but I don't think that is important now.
Yes, this last bit is in testing, but it will be AI only... the AI calls workers to them, players have to send them the normal way. It is just a way for me to gain control of the AI and make them built forts where I think they ought to want them. At present, the AI can still build forts using the build spell on the workers, but will only do so if it happens to wander into a spot where the "fort score" is high.
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