Marriage

[GenMarshall]

You seem to be saying unmarried couples are less moral.

I can see from Eran's point of view that unmarried are not immoral or any less moral. He just feels that its best that the two people make a comitment in eather religiously in a form of marriage or non-religiously in a form of civil unions.

 

[ironduck]

Eran, I simply asked how it is better from a moral standpoint. You must have some idea of how it is better. Is it better because it's sanctioned by god or something?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Eran, I simply asked how it is better from a moral standpoint. You must have some idea of how it is better. Is it better because it's sanctioned by god or something?

Yes, we view that marriage is eternal and one of the purposes of sex is to strengthen marriage. If one has sex with other people that reduces the ability of sex to do that. Thus sex outside of marriage can be viewed as immoral. We believe that God told us this.

It also goes without saying that it can't be the basis for laws, of course.

 

[GenMarshall]

Yes, we view that marriage is eternal and one of the purposes of sex is to strengthen marriage. If one has sex with other people that reduces the ability of sex to do that. Thus sex outside of marriage can be viewed as immoral. We believe that God told us this.

Though please excuse the naive ignorant virgin. But I still dont know how sex can strengthen a marrage. I myself dont place value of sex because I never experianced as well as an importance to my virginity. I admit that I am still struggling about how sex can strengthen marriage when on campus I am surounded by men who just want to get into women's pants and then dump them like a sack of potatoes.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I admit that I am still struggling about how sex can strengthen marriage when on campus I am surounded by men who just want to get into women's pants and then dump them like a sack of potatoes.

Casual sex and nuptual sex are different things. I too am a virgin so I could be wrong, but I get the impression that although sex pursued for one's own pleasure will not strengthen a relationship, sex for the purpose of expressing one's love will. Maybe someone who is married could answer better.

 

[ironduck]

Yes, we view that marriage is eternal and one of the purposes of sex is to strengthen marriage. If one has sex with other people that reduces the ability of sex to do that. Thus sex outside of marriage can be viewed as immoral. We believe that God told us this.

It also goes without saying that it can't be the basis for laws, of course.

But if people love each other why is that not equally good in god's eyes regardless of whether they are married or not? They won't act any differently, there won't be any more or less love or trust just because they get married.

Does god not realize that it's people's feelings and actions that count, not formal procedures?

 

[ironduck]

Casual sex and nuptual sex are different things. I too am a virgin so I could be wrong, but I get the impression that although sex pursued for one's own pleasure will not strengthen a relationship, sex for the purpose of expressing one's love will. Maybe someone who is married could answer better.

Why does someone have to be married to answer that question? I really don't get this insistence on marriage.

You really think there is no such thing as a deeply involved relationship until there has been a formal marriage procedure?

I'm not religious, so why should I care about some random religion's formal procedures? My emotions are not worth any less, my word bears no less weight just because I don't follow the traditions of a specific culture or religion.

 

[Smidlee]

Casual sex and nuptual sex are different things. I too am a virgin so I could be wrong, but I get the impression that although sex pursued for one's own pleasure will not strengthen a relationship, sex for the purpose of expressing one's love will. Maybe someone who is married could answer better.

marriage itself isn't a magic pill nor a wedding ring have any power which changes someone's character but those who have character are those who put great value on marriage, commitments, their word, honor, faithfulness, etc.

There is a difference between loving someone for what they do for you and loving someone unconditionally. Since sex is very pleasurable it can easily cloud one's judgment if they truly love that person or not. It's not hard to love someone in the honeymoon stage but the true test with be when the trouble and trials enter the relationship. If you can wait into marriage before having sex you have already face and have victory over one trial. This is a good sign of both of you putting your commitments over your desires. For there will be a time ("times" more likely) in marriage when you will be tempted to leave your partner for someone else which only your word/ "commitment" will keep you on the right track.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yes, but the point is that you need a bond to one person, with whom you will progress together throughout eternity. Marriage is just a way of showing that you intend for it to be that person. Sure, there are bad marriages, and there are divorces (some more justified than others) but only having sex within marriage at least makes it more likely that it is just the one person. And it doesn't require a formal religious ceremony - we consider civil marriages just as valid as one done in a church (though not a temple). If they come out with civil unions, they would probably work too. Though only for heterosexual couples, barring a major announcement.

 

[YNCS]

I got this today in an email:

Ten Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong​

1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

 

[Truronian]

Kind of sums up our points though doesn't it...

 

[GenMarshall]

Ten Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong​

1. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

Thats silly, Real Americans dont reject eyeglasses, polyester, and AC

2. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

I wonder what source did that guy get that from. Most certanly hanging with gay people dont make heteros gay.

3. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

Not to conserned about that since I doubt that beasteality marriages would happen.

4. Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

I agree that straight marriages has been around for a long time. But I will refute that we no longer see woman as property, and African Americans can marry who they want. As fror divorce, that depends on who you ask. For Catholics, they feel that divorce is wrong though an anulment is an equivelent to a divorce, But I politely decline to debate on that regard. For a lawer and the law, a divorce is not illegal.

5. Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

Britany's 55-hour just for fun marrage has already made marriage less meaningfull. (Hense why I raise an eyebrow at marriages performed by Elvis impersonators at the Chapel of Love in Las Vegas.)

6. Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

[/quote]
Somehow I dont agree with that because even infertal married couples cant produced children and they cant be denied marriage.

7. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

I wonder if the guy has been outside from under the rock. I know since I just poped out of it not to long ago

8. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

Many Abrahamic Religions frown uppon Gay marriages, but again I politely decline to debate on this. I can already refute on many of these points. Were not a theocracy, were a federal republic. We have many religions in the US, not just Christianity. We have Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Shintoists, and many more.

9. Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

Wow, I guess I am not successfull after being raised by my mother.

10. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

I would say we have adapted to new social norms.
@YNCS, what was your reactions towards that email you recived? How I would react to the email would I would just shake my head and put it in the junk mail bin.

 

[The Yankee]

It's a satirical e-mail, CG. It's purpose is to debunk the usual arguments against gay marriage by also applying those arguments to other facets of American life.

 

[Rhymes]

@CG: Didn't you get the sarcasm,. he actually shows the insignificance of arguments against gay marriage.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

And it sums up my entire position. Although my moral views prevent me from fully embracing the official recognition of gay marriage, I cannot come up with a single nonreligion-based objection to it. If it could be shown that gay marriage was somehow a threat to straight marriage, I would oppose it; but not only has it not been shown that it does, I cannot even imagine how it could.