Pirate
Emperor
Sorry, don't know much about the Masons, but am very intrigued by them. What supposedly makes them bigots?
Masonic mutterings
- Thread starter Iggy
- Start date
addiv
Hero of our time
You should explain how they're right.
Whatever.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
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Originally posted by Iggy
ummm... well there maybe a little problem for you there Curt. I gather one has to pledge allegiance to God and the Queen when you join.
They are only words!
It is what is in my evil heart that counts!
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
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Originally posted by bholed
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Well that would depend on what your religion's believes are Curt?
, think you'd be black balled for being a non-believer.
There is this thing called 'telling people what they want to hear' - it's a fairly new concept.
It's only been around a few thousand years.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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According to that book I read, during the Colonial period they started allowing non whites to become Masons. Doesnt mean they werent racist though.
roadrunner23
Chieftain
All you have to do is ask to join, but it ain't cheap. You need only believe in a higher power. A lot of mumbo-jumbo surrounding some genuine kernels of wisdom.
Pirate
Emperor
So the masons were supposedly a white supremacist group, or did they just limit their membership to old white men? In other words, did they actively conspire against non-whites (active racism) or did they not care about other races and only helped white people (passive racism)?
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That would be rather hard as there a "Secret" power, they disadvantage people not in the club, and promote those who are,
fail to see how you can argue this especially as your not allowed to advocate a defense, ha.
Non-whites most Christian's especially Catholic's seem to be there preferred Hate.
Bozo Erectus
Master Baker
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The Masons were originally created by and for white men, but that doesnt mean its white supremacist. The Masonic Lodges in non white countries Im sure dont have the same pull that the white European Lodges do, but the same could be said of lots of organizations.
addiv
Hero of our time
You very well embody the attitude I referred to earlier. "They keep some things secret and I don't belong to their club, so they must be out to get me. Doesn't matter that I don't have a clue who they are and what they do!"
You mean they are the preferred object of hate of Christians and especially Catholics?
Must be because their philosophy makes more sense than that of the Christians...
Double Barrel
Deity
It is a glorified boys club in today's world.
In the past, it had a useful social function...basically a network of sorts.
Interesting historical note: during the Texas revolution, Mexican general Santa Anna's life was sparred by Texas general Sam Houston because they were both Masons. Santa Anna gave the secret Masonic distress signal, and, because of the Masonic oath, Sam Houston let him go.
In the past, it had a useful social function...basically a network of sorts.
Interesting historical note: during the Texas revolution, Mexican general Santa Anna's life was sparred by Texas general Sam Houston because they were both Masons. Santa Anna gave the secret Masonic distress signal, and, because of the Masonic oath, Sam Houston let him go.
Martacus
World's Greatest Warrior
From somethingawful.com:
Sums up my thoughts on the Masons exactly.
Sums up my thoughts on the Masons exactly.
CurtSibling
ENEMY ACE™
- Joined
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See!
You never know when one of we posters may meet face to face in such a situation!
I am joining today!
Guildenstern
Tepegian
I'm always amazed when I hear about the Masonic conspiracy theories that are circulating. My stepdad is a 32nd degree Mason, and his father a 33rd, in the Scottish Rite. When I was in elementary school we went on a tour of the Masonic cathedral in Indianapolis.
They're not really very secretive. Their "secrets" amount to things like secret handshakes and the like; merely rituals. As someone mentioned above, they're like the Rotary Club with some mysticism thrown in. Their basic premise is to be a place of fraternity and friendship, where people can put aside their differences and recognize what they have in common.
As it has been mentioned, membership with the Freemasons is open only to those who believe in a God of some sort. While most Masons are Christians, the point was to be inclusive, rather than exclusive; basically the idea is that all religions have some piece of the "puzzle", and that anyone who believes in a God has at least something right. And so you also have a minority of Muslim or Jewish Masons (though it is a very small minority, because there is a lot of fear spread by these conspiracies that have been bandied about in this thread). There are also black Masons; in fact, on my own messageboard, we have a member who is a black Mason belonging to the Nation of Islam. As far as other minorities joining the group, I don't think it is catching on very much, due to a combination of misinformation and lack of interest.
To maximize inclusiveness while sharing in common their belief in God, Masons are forbidden to discuss religion or politics while in the lodge. Also, God is referred to by the generic term "Great Architect", so that whenever any generic prayers are lead, individual Masons can direct them at whatever Creator they believe exists. Thus brotherhood can be maintained without religious and political quarrels.
Masons also contribute a lot to the community; they feel it is their duty. The Shriners have already been mentioned, but they are only the most visible contributors. Masons feel it is their moral imperative to help the community as best they can, be it by donating money, blood, time, or what-have-you.
Here is a website with tons of information about Freemasonry; if you look around, a lot of the things you thought were "secret" are actually quite public:
http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/
Here is part of a FAQ:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry04.html#33
I myself might have considered joining the Masons, but I cannot because I am an atheist. However, I think they have decent principles.
They're not really very secretive. Their "secrets" amount to things like secret handshakes and the like; merely rituals. As someone mentioned above, they're like the Rotary Club with some mysticism thrown in. Their basic premise is to be a place of fraternity and friendship, where people can put aside their differences and recognize what they have in common.
As it has been mentioned, membership with the Freemasons is open only to those who believe in a God of some sort. While most Masons are Christians, the point was to be inclusive, rather than exclusive; basically the idea is that all religions have some piece of the "puzzle", and that anyone who believes in a God has at least something right. And so you also have a minority of Muslim or Jewish Masons (though it is a very small minority, because there is a lot of fear spread by these conspiracies that have been bandied about in this thread). There are also black Masons; in fact, on my own messageboard, we have a member who is a black Mason belonging to the Nation of Islam. As far as other minorities joining the group, I don't think it is catching on very much, due to a combination of misinformation and lack of interest.
To maximize inclusiveness while sharing in common their belief in God, Masons are forbidden to discuss religion or politics while in the lodge. Also, God is referred to by the generic term "Great Architect", so that whenever any generic prayers are lead, individual Masons can direct them at whatever Creator they believe exists. Thus brotherhood can be maintained without religious and political quarrels.
Masons also contribute a lot to the community; they feel it is their duty. The Shriners have already been mentioned, but they are only the most visible contributors. Masons feel it is their moral imperative to help the community as best they can, be it by donating money, blood, time, or what-have-you.
Here is a website with tons of information about Freemasonry; if you look around, a lot of the things you thought were "secret" are actually quite public:
http://web.mit.edu/dryfoo/Masonry/
Here is part of a FAQ:
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry04.html#33
I myself might have considered joining the Masons, but I cannot because I am an atheist. However, I think they have decent principles.
Many masonic juridictions prohibit themselves from inviting or soliciting persons for mebership and reguire the would be member to start the process by inquiring. You should inquire.Originally posted by CurtSibling
Any step up the ladder is cool in my book!
I would join if I was offered!
You do not supposed that Houston's cold political calculation that holding the head of the enemy dictator and head of its army would paralyse said enemy army and goverment, and mulitply the chance of a favorable treaty ten fold, as opposed to killing him, had anything to do with this decision, do you?
Free masons in Britian.
Britain's 700,000 masons, that's about one in thirty adult men, form a secret link between the country's most powerful institutions. Secret masonic links can be used by unscrupulous businessmen and other individuals to compromise the independence and integrity of the media, judiciary, local government, lawyers, MP's, local councillors, royalty, politicians, armed forces, police, civil servants, and intelligence agencies. And, in the 1990's, as economic pressures increase, so does the temptation to abuse the masonic network for private gain. A complete national list of initiates is the very least the public require if masonic assisted corruption in positions of public trust is to be checked out, and ruled out.
Britain's 700,000 masons, that's about one in thirty adult men, form a secret link between the country's most powerful institutions. Secret masonic links can be used by unscrupulous businessmen and other individuals to compromise the independence and integrity of the media, judiciary, local government, lawyers, MP's, local councillors, royalty, politicians, armed forces, police, civil servants, and intelligence agencies. And, in the 1990's, as economic pressures increase, so does the temptation to abuse the masonic network for private gain. A complete national list of initiates is the very least the public require if masonic assisted corruption in positions of public trust is to be checked out, and ruled out.
Quote,
from http://religion-cults.com/Secret/Freemasonry/Freemasonry.htm
==
Cardinal Ratzinger, approved and ordered by John Paul II in Nov. 1983:
"The Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. Catholics who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. Local Ecclesiastical authorities do not have the faculty to pronounce a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which may include a diminution of the above-mentioned judgment".
Most Christian and Muslim leaders forbid Freemasonry... because it is a most deceptive secret society
Baptist" leaders, have referred to it as "an ungodly brotherhood of satanic darkness"; "there is an inherent incompatibility between Masonry and the Christian faith"; "there is a great danger that the Christian Mason may find himself compromising his allegiance to Jesus" (The Baptist Union of Scotland, 1965).
-"Lutherans", say "Masonry amounts to idolatry" (Missouri Synod, 1959).
-"Presbyterians": "Masonry is a religious institution and as such is definitely anti-Christian (General Assembly, Rochester, 1942).
-"The Church of England": "A number of very fundamental reasons to question the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity (General Synod, London, 1987... and several members of the committee were Masons!).
-"Russian Orthodox Church": "Any Orthodox who joins Masonry losses all the right and privileges of his membership in the Church (Acker, "Strange Altars", pag.60).
"Methodists": "There is a great danger that the Christian who becomes a Freemason will find himself comprising his Christian beliefs. Methodists should not become Masons (General Assembly, London, 1985).
from http://religion-cults.com/Secret/Freemasonry/Freemasonry.htm
==
Cardinal Ratzinger, approved and ordered by John Paul II in Nov. 1983:
"The Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. Catholics who enrol in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. Local Ecclesiastical authorities do not have the faculty to pronounce a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which may include a diminution of the above-mentioned judgment".
Most Christian and Muslim leaders forbid Freemasonry... because it is a most deceptive secret society
Baptist" leaders, have referred to it as "an ungodly brotherhood of satanic darkness"; "there is an inherent incompatibility between Masonry and the Christian faith"; "there is a great danger that the Christian Mason may find himself compromising his allegiance to Jesus" (The Baptist Union of Scotland, 1965).
-"Lutherans", say "Masonry amounts to idolatry" (Missouri Synod, 1959).
-"Presbyterians": "Masonry is a religious institution and as such is definitely anti-Christian (General Assembly, Rochester, 1942).
-"The Church of England": "A number of very fundamental reasons to question the compatibility of Freemasonry with Christianity (General Synod, London, 1987... and several members of the committee were Masons!).
-"Russian Orthodox Church": "Any Orthodox who joins Masonry losses all the right and privileges of his membership in the Church (Acker, "Strange Altars", pag.60).
"Methodists": "There is a great danger that the Christian who becomes a Freemason will find himself comprising his Christian beliefs. Methodists should not become Masons (General Assembly, London, 1985).
