Mass Effect 3

[Vylinius]

Hmmm I like this indoctrinate theory.....Mass Effect 4 or Mass Effect 3 Exp/DLC anyone? Also that video...so awesome.

 

[Dreadnought]

Hmmm I like this indoctrinate theory.....Mass Effect 4 or Mass Effect 3 Exp/DLC anyone? Also that video...so awesome.

Bioware says Mass Effect 3 is the end for Shepard as a player-character (though, of course, that doesn't rule out DLCs, but it does rule out ME4 as a continuation of ME3).

 

[Vylinius]

No it just rules out us playing Shepard. We could play someone else you know.

 

[RD-BH]

No it just rules out us playing Shepard. We could play someone else you know.

You mean ...
... like a Prothean?
... in a prequel?
... I don't see that ending very well.

 

[Akka]

Spoiler :

I'm aware of all that so I'll just skip to the part that bothers me:

So you are saying the final battle was completely in his mind and he never left Earth. Just his mind got zapped onto the Citadel. (how? why?) So he mind-fought an immense AI on the Citadel and triggered the self-destruct through sheer willpower and then woke up on Earth. It is still pants on head ********.

Second way: He sees through INDOCTRI-VISION but he actually went up there. Flipped the on-off switch, blew it all to hell and woke up in concrete rubble on Earth how exactly?

Third way: It is a total hallucination and Shepard didn't destroy the Reapers at all. Making the series and Shepard fail at is only task. Stopping the Reaper threat. Yay Bioware.

Spoiler :

Okay, last attempt...

First, the known facts :

- Shepard has been, through the serie, quite often in contact with the Reapers. As shown multiple times in the serie, being around Reaper tech tends to slowly expose someone to indoctrination. As such, it's most probable that Shepard has been affected by at least some noticeable latent indoctrination. Add to this that the best catalyst to indoctrination is adrenaline, and we can agree that we can more easily count the moments where Shepard is NOT high on adrenaline than the moment is is.

- Several hints in ME3 could be interpreted at this supposed (but STRONGLY probable and logical) latent low level of indoctrination, and tend to indicate that there was reaper tech on the Normandy, meaning increased exposure to indoctrination.

- When Shepard is hit by the big beam toward the end, he ends up inconscious. We can safely guess he's in a state of both mental and physical weakness (hence most vulnerable to indoctrination).

- We know that indoctrination is a very subtle way of brainwashing, twisting the perceptions and reasoning of people so that they make, by themselves, choices that, in their eyes, further their own goals, but in reality ends up helping the Reapers (cf the previous example of Saren, TIM and indoctrinated Shepard).

Now, the theory :

Shepard, being inconscious and vulnerable, is battling indoctrination in his mind. The entire section between being hit by the beam and the "secret video" where he seems to awake, is a dream. Everything in it is a mental construct of his fight against indoctrination.

The typical wheel choices being inverted (TIM choices shown as Parangon and Anderson's preferences as Renegade, which is contrary to their character), the fact that the god-child propositions are strangely favouring how to not destroy the Reapers, the apparent plot-hole and contradiction that have no explanation, represent how indoctrination twist the mind of Shepard, trying to show him as "logical" the choices that ends up helping the Reapers (cf previous post about how synthesis and control are, in fact, furthering their goal).
All this is perfectly in line with how indoctrination works. It's, according to the theory, and attempt to metagame and put the player in the place of Shepard's mind, showing him (the player) a world that isn't the "true" reality anymore, but the twisted reality where logical choices ends up helping the Reapers (exactly what indoctrination is supposed to do).

According to the theory, the game IS NOT FINISHED, it's lacking the "true" end (supposedly as a way to make the player believe it's actually the end, in line with the "metagaming deception" described above), and this true end will be delivered a bit later in a DLC, when the trick has been played to enough people.

 

[CivCube]

My fanwanky theory about what could happen with a DLC update:

Spoiler :

My guess is that the current choices will stay the same; they're presented as upbeat endings for those players who want to stop there. Since the game redirects you to shortly before the final missions, however, they're likely the wrong endings, suggesting you have to try again.

There's currently a slightly-raised dais behind you when you're presented with the three choices. If you walk over to it there's enough space for some kind of object there. If I had it my way, they'll update it with a kill switch for Shepard's hallucination. That Synthesis choice which is touted front and center? You've already been fighting the results of synthesis between synthetics and organics the whole game. If you pick the "none-of-the above" choice, the room is revealed to be a Husk creation facility and enemies are already running at you. Harbinger Kid gives a dismissive grunt and disappears.

 

[Kozmos]

Spoiler :

Okay, last attempt...

First, the known facts :

- Shepard has been, through the serie, quite often in contact with the Reapers. As shown multiple times in the serie, being around Reaper tech tends to slowly expose someone to indoctrination. As such, it's most probable that Shepard has been affected by at least some noticeable latent indoctrination. Add to this that the best catalyst to indoctrination is adrenaline, and we can agree that we can more easily count the moments where Shepard is NOT high on adrenaline than the moment is is.

- Several hints in ME3 could be interpreted at this supposed (but STRONGLY probable and logical) latent low level of indoctrination, and tend to indicate that there was reaper tech on the Normandy, meaning increased exposure to indoctrination.

- When Shepard is hit by the big beam toward the end, he ends up inconscious. We can safely guess he's in a state of both mental and physical weakness (hence most vulnerable to indoctrination).

- We know that indoctrination is a very subtle way of brainwashing, twisting the perceptions and reasoning of people so that they make, by themselves, choices that, in their eyes, further their own goals, but in reality ends up helping the Reapers (cf the previous example of Saren, TIM and indoctrinated Shepard).

Now, the theory :

Shepard, being inconscious and vulnerable, is battling indoctrination in his mind. The entire section between being hit by the beam and the "secret video" where he seems to awake, is a dream. Everything in it is a mental construct of his fight against indoctrination.

The typical wheel choices being inverted (TIM choices shown as Parangon and Anderson's preferences as Renegade, which is contrary to their character), the fact that the god-child propositions are strangely favouring how to not destroy the Reapers, the apparent plot-hole and contradiction that have no explanation, represent how indoctrination twist the mind of Shepard, trying to show him as "logical" the choices that ends up helping the Reapers (cf previous post about how synthesis and control are, in fact, furthering their goal).
All this is perfectly in line with how indoctrination works. It's, according to the theory, and attempt to metagame and put the player in the place of Shepard's mind, showing him (the player) a world that isn't the "true" reality anymore, but the twisted reality where logical choices ends up helping the Reapers (exactly what indoctrination is supposed to do).

According to the theory, the game IS NOT FINISHED, it's lacking the "true" end (supposedly as a way to make the player believe it's actually the end, in line with the "metagaming deception" described above), and this true end will be delivered a bit later in a DLC, when the trick has been played to enough people.

Spoiler :

Okay, I understand all of that. But if what you are saying is true then the job is not done. (as I suggested in the Third way) He just defeated the indoctrination and not the Reapers. It is still a pathetic end for the supposed end of the trilogy. The fact they might add the real end via DLC (paid or unpaid) is disgusting. Milking the franchise for all its worth and alienating the fan base.

Also this might prove be the death of the theory: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

 

[Akka]

All depends if the "true ending" DLC is true and is free. If both, then it's okay and a rather impressive display of narrative stunt and artistic integrity.
If not... well, it's kind of the opposite.

 

[Kozmos]

Spoiler :

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

Casey on after Mass Effect 3
"Whatever we do would likely happen before or during the events of Mass Effect 3, not after"

On Deciding the End of the Game
The illusive man boss fight had been scrapped... but there was still much debate. 'One night walters scribbled down some thought on various ways the game could end with the line "Lots of speculation for Everyone!" at the bottom of the page.'

In truth the final bits of dialogue were debated right up until the end of 2011. Martin sheen's voice-over session for the illusive man, originally scheduled for August, was delayed until mid-November so the writers would have more time to finesse the ending.

And even in November the gameplay team was still experimenting with an endgame sequence where players would suddenly lose control of Shepard's movement and fall under full reaper control. (This sequence was dropped because the gaemplay mechanic proved too troublesome to implement alongside dialogue choices).

So there you have it. The endings was indeed balls.

 

[Maniacal]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

It seems that Bioware planned this ending out, and somehow didn't see a problem with it. Still no answer on how it is supposed to make sense. It also confirms they didn't put any real effort into choosing Tali's face/picture.

EDIT: From the same app, these notes are the legitimate notes by Mac Walters for the ending.

Spoiler :

 

[RD-BH]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9999272/1

It seems that Bioware planned this ending out, and somehow didn't see a problem with it. Still no answer on how it is supposed to make sense. It also confirms they didn't put any real effort into choosing Tali's face/picture.

EDIT: From the same app, these notes are the legitimate notes by Mac Walters for the ending.

Spoiler :

Nice to see they put effort into the "Star Wars" of our generation ...
... ... NOT!!!

 

[RD-BH]

Casey Hudson on the Conclusion of Mass Effect 3

Well ... that ... bites!

 

[Maniacal]

For us and for you, Mass Effect 3 had to live up to a lot of expectations, not only for a great gaming experience, but for a resolution to the countless storylines and decisions you’ve made as a player since the journey began in 2007. So we designed Mass Effect 3 to be a series of endings to key plots and storylines, each culminating in scenes that show you the consequences of your actions. You then carry the knowledge of these consequences with you as you complete the final moments of your journey.

I guess that was true, right up until the ending in which they threw that right out the window, but otherwise he doesn't say a damn thing in that post.

Still, we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection.

Right... I'm just going to add Casey Husdon to the list of people whom I will never, ever trust. Also I'd like to have some of whatever he is smoking.

 

[Kozmos]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10084349/

Interesting thread on how corps deal with this.

 

[RD-BH]

I am really really pissed at BioWare's PR stunt ...

By including 2 links to "Favorable" news articles, they essentially used "upset" fanbase numbers to bolster positive search engine results for the game.

Man, I detest corporations.
If this were a game of Civ, I would say "Good Game, well played."
To the IGNorant masses, "You got pwned, dude."

 

[Azale]

Spoiler :

Ok, finished. The ending was tremendous, up until the Catalyst scene.

I'm onboard with pretending the Indoctrination Theory is canon

BAH forgot to spoiler tag initially.

 

[Maniacal]

Spoiler :

Yeah, while I have several complaints about the ending not involving more characters and choices like ME2's ending did, it was quite epic and the last dash towards the transport beam thing was awesome. Talking with Anderson (especially the bro talk) and with TIM at the end was also very good. I just pretend it ends right before that stupid platform lifts Shep upwards. I don't even care if Shep lives or dies.

EDIT: Angry Joe did a very good 10 reasons why the ending sucks video:
http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

So I'm burned out on Battlefield 3, and thus I've been playing this game a lot. I have to admit that it's amazing, despite my disappointment that there's far less squad members and that many choices don't have as much impact as the choices surrounding the Geth and Quarians, instead being just mere numbers to help unlock more terrible endings. Other than that, I love this damn game. And I think I'll just delay getting the ending.

 

[Azale]

Spoiler :

Ok, I feel like the haterz have had their say. What do you guys think of this set of explanations?

I'm still on the fence. I don't think the endings are series spoiling, but they might very well still suck.

Where the hell is Dachs?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Dachs has been sighted in OT. I'm sure he has his reasons for avoiding this thread. MAybe he hasn't beaten the game yet, maybe he has and is trying to forget the whole trilogy.

The explanations are fine and well, but it still doesn't change the fact that a major character/concept is introduced during the last ten minutes of the game.

Spoiler :

Not to speak of the Endingtron9000 which was already a real letdown in Deus Ex: Human Revolution. For me multiple endings means that the game branches out near the end, not that
you can see most of them in the same playthrough if you save shortly before you make one choice. Alpha Protocol did this better, Bloodlines had alternative final dungeons and bosses depending on your allegiances.
In ME 3 it feels like all the decisions you made throughout the game are wasted, and the only difference between the ending sequences is the color of the explosion. I haven't seen the officially bad endings yet where the Crucible misfires, but I somehow doubt they are much different.