mass murderer brutally executed in Iran

[Jawz II]

(Out of order to group by subject for answering.)
Revenge has historically led to vendettaism, feuds, duelling, and clan wars. All of these things have produced calamitous effects on the societies that practiced them, and the leading societies today are the ones that have abandoned them as anachronistic and wasteful. This being the case, I will let history answer for me.

really? america is the world leading economic and military power, if the death penalty on america isnt for revenge, then what is it for?

its a proven fact the people commiting crimes dont care about the death penalty, since practicing it in a state or not, dose not impact the crime statistics one way or another

so what possible reason other than revenge can you think of?

'Eye for an eye' was the means God used to curb the vendetta societythe Israelites lived in. It didn't encourage the seeking of revenge, it sought to limit its scope to reasonable bounds: IE if someone took your eye out, you didn't kill them, but only took an eye in return. Jesus, in Matt. 5:38-42, asked us to give up vengence entirely: "38 You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

Hardly a Biblical license to revenge.

it sought to limit its scope to reasonable bounds?

if an eye for an eye is reasonable, then how is 1 life + 1 lashing for 17 rapes and 16 lives, unreasonable?

im not saying i wouldve done it like that, i wouldve taken this guy to the desert where he did his deeds, to the dead bodies, if he was remorsefull id just shoot him, if he was gleefull id beat the crap outta him and then shoot him

anywho it would be over in 5 minutes tops


my knowledge of the bible or any other holy book is very limited, as opposed to what red wolf thought, i dont belive in any of them, i was asking if all 3 said eye for an eye, or if it was only the bible

but reasonable punishment the way you put it sounds... reasonable

Whoa. Um, no, the purpose of laws to define crimes and set punishments is an orderly and harmonious society.

really? i read an article a few years ago, written by a professor, he was like an expert on crime and criminals and stuff (forgot that word)

he was arguing that since something like 99% of all people who murder someone, do it as a crime of passion, and will never kill anyone else during their lifetime (im guessing that other 1% are mafia hitmen and serial killers)
so we could actually just let them go, after alittle therapy or something

now for the society as a whole it would probably be better if the guy had some therapy for a year or 2 and maybe some medicin to keep him calm, and then realease him, so he can be a productive member etc

insterad of locking them away for 20 years in gladiator school, where they become real hardcore criminals, and then releasing them...

but if that person he killed was your son, im guessing you would disagree

 

[RedWolf]

im not gonna type everything twice or go find where i typped it in the 1st place for youre convinience, read these few pages or dont, your call

hint: i know more about this specifik case than you



if you had bothered to read this thread, you would know that i said death penalty should only be given in really strong cases, with solid evidence

Yes you've told me that again and again and I've replied to it - that you can very rarely be sure of anything unless you have a videotape which almost never happens. And knowing this it would be my preference to choose a reversible punishment rather than an irreversible one.

you would know this, how? obviously you havent read it

funny, you tell me to stop treating you like a child, and in the same breathe you call me a child? thats rich...

stop acting like a child then, im not gonna type everything twice for you, pay attention the 1st time (or read for the 1st time and pay attention while doing it)

Umm.. Ever considered that I threw the "pay attention" comment there as a direct response to your pettiness?

Why don't you just calm down? You don't agree with me - I don't agree with you. Who cares? We're not going to change anything here.

if you dont wanna talk about this case, start a thread about capital punishment

I'm sorry - and you became the owner of this thread when? If you read it you'll see that it turned into one about the pros and cons of the death penalty in general. Not this thread in particular. So please don't attack me for disagreeing with you.

what if it is the right guy?

i dare say at least 60-70 % of those convicted for example in the us are guilty, why punish them at all

the only diffrence between death and other sentences, like prison time is that death penalty is more punishment

maybe we shouldnt send anyone to prison unless we have 100% indisputabe evidence of guilt?

The difference between the death penalty and prison is that prison is reversible when you later discover the truth.

 

[RedWolf]

Please don't use quotes if you aren't quoting, it looks like I said something I didn't. What I said was "I have no reason to doubt the guilt of this person", and I still don't. I think that generalizing into "the left" and "the right" only works for people who don't think on their own, and is useless in any actual discussion about an issue. Most people have a mix of beliefs from "the left" and "the right", so in the world outside of talk radio, the labels are meaningless and won't help decide who may or may not be for or against the death penalty.

You're right - I apologize about the quotes - I think I typed it thinking in my head that you used those words for some reason.

Isn't this forum mostly like talk radio though? People spouting their opinions and arguing with each other with no real chance of actually changing anybody's mind?

 

[Norlamand]

Now that is how to handle the death penalty! Go Iran!

 

[FearlessLeader2]

really? america is the world leading economic and military power, if the death penalty on america isnt for revenge, then what is it for?

Deterrence is the primary reason supporters offer for its continued existence.

its a proven fact the people commiting crimes dont care about the death penalty, since practicing it in a state or not, dose not impact the crime statistics one way or another

so what possible reason other than revenge can you think of?

None, let's abolish it since it's clearly uncivilized.

it sought to limit its scope to reasonable bounds?

Yes.

if an eye for an eye is reasonable, then how is 1 life + 1 lashing for 17 rapes and 16 lives, unreasonable?

Who said it was? I'm opposed to the DP because of how it is applied in my country. Assumin Iran adhered to a proper standard of evidence, I'd say a public lashing and beheading was a fairly good application of the DP.

really? i read an article a few years ago, written by a professor, he was like an expert on crime and criminals and stuff (forgot that word)

Criminologist? Lawyer? Politician?

he was arguing that since something like 99% of all people who murder someone, do it as a crime of passion, and will never kill anyone else during their lifetime (im guessing that other 1% are mafia hitmen and serial killers) so we could actually just let them go, after alittle therapy or something

now for the society as a whole it would probably be better if the guy had some therapy for a year or 2 and maybe some medicin to keep him calm, and then realease him, so he can be a productive member etc

insterad of locking them away for 20 years in gladiator school, where they become real hardcore criminals, and then releasing them...

but if that person he killed was your son, im guessing you would disagree

The problem with that is that it would encourage crimes of passion. With less to fear from letting go of our self-control, more of us would let go, with violent and bloody consequences.

 

[Jawz II]

Yes you've told me that again and again and I've replied to it - that you can very rarely be sure of anything unless you have a videotape which almost never happens. And knowing this it would be my preference to choose a reversible punishment rather than an irreversible one.

how is prison time reversible? what, you made a time machine, so if someone was in jail for 40 years and then found innocent you would go back in time and give him his 40 years back?

Umm.. Ever considered that I threw the "pay attention" comment there as a direct response to your pettiness?

Why don't you just calm down? You don't agree with me - I don't agree with you. Who cares? We're not going to change anything here.

obvoiously you said something like, i havent told you about the bernardo case twice, pay attention, not a word about my pettiness there, i dont understand why youd tell such a blatant lie!

if i wasnt calm, you would defenitly notice, i cant see how you would be able to piss me off about anything, although i can see you keep trying with your little personal attacks (grow up, pettiness, blabla)
if you were one of these extreme right wing boys we have here and wanted to blow up this ethnicity and bomb that one, maybe you could

i was annoyed when you didnt know what the discussion between me and sysyphus was about, but dived in the middle, anyway!
but i was never pissed, if i throw in a few damns and you get so upset, i say its you being too sensitive


now, why dont you take your own advice and stop being a petty child?
(sure sounds like an insult, dosent it?)

I'm sorry - and you became the owner of this thread when? If you read it you'll see that it turned into one about the pros and cons of the death penalty in general. Not this thread in particular. So please don't attack me for disagreeing with you.

i became the owner when i first posted in it!

this thread is about a certain murderer and the penalthy he got, of course people are gonna disscuss the death penalty, and they should, i hate it when people yell all the time, discussions should be able to flow freely, like in real life

but while some people were discussing it, me and a some others were talking about this specifik case and CP

if you think i attacked you when i told you to start another thread, if you only wanna talk about CP and not this case, you really have a chip on your shoulder, not my problem

The difference between the death penalty and prison is that prison is reversible when you later discover the truth.

again, no it is not, you cant give anyone their time outta their life back

ps. this discussion is over

 

[uggabugga]

Firstly... assuming we lock murderers away with other murderers the other prisoners they MIGHT kill are other murderers - so why do you care all of a sudden?

all of a sudden eh? what was my prior stand on this issue, pray tell?
your argument is specious in that your assumption that only murderers are locked away together is patently false. apparently you are unaware that nonviolent drug offenders are locked into the very same jail systems as are murderers.

i suggest you go back and read what i responded to. the argument was that 100% of people locked away commit no more offenses.

allow me:

1. It is a proven fact that 100% of criminals locked away for life never commit a crime again(any escape's chances are so astronomical that they are negligible).

As for guard deaths - absolutely unfortunate but how often does it REALLY happen? It's not as if they're dropping left right and centre.
And if 1 in 7 death row inmates are innocent as the stat says then it probably means we're killing more innocent people then the number of guards killed by inmates. And in addition to that guards CHOOSE the dangerous job - like cops and soldiers and therefore must take SOME responsibility for the consequences. I'm quite frankly more concerned about the 1 in 7 railroaded by the police and justice system

as for innocent people being executed - absolutely unfortunate but how often does it REALLY happen?

please back up the alleged stat of 1 in 7 death row inmates being innocent.

seriously, if anyone has a single, irrefutable case of an innocent person being executed in the US [reiterated- the word is executed, not convicted], i would love to see it. my thinking is that no such case exists, otherwise the anti- crowd would be endlessly citing it. at least you guys have finally stopped bringing up the rosenbergs as such an example.

 

[Sarevok]

Quite pleasant...

 

[Zardnaar]

For those types of crimes he got off lightly.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

James Lee Beathard
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/newspubs/newsarchive/1999/19991208beathardadvsy.htm
http://www.spectacle.org/0600/death.html
http://www.txexecutions.org/reports/197.asp
http://www2.bc.edu/~sydnor/8.s.html
http://www.rtis.com/reg/bcs/pol/touchstone/summer00/09innoce.htm
http://www2.bc.edu/~sydnor/8.html

The last link is especially damning.

 

[Moff Jerjerrod]

All I have to say on this matter is until some of you have children of your own you will never understand what a BARBARIC ACT MOLESTATION IS!!!!!!

He got what he deserved. These barbarians must be treated the only way barbarian understand. We are living in increasingly barbarous times and your pathetic liberal attitudes towards crime only serves to increase the brazenous of the crimes these creeps commit.

I have no pity for them and that's just too bad but child molestation is F$%^ING PURE EVIL!!!

 

[E-Raser]

Is is always again amusing to see those 'they deserve no better', 'wipe 'em all out' -yalla yalla.
If you're yourself or your family is affect by a whatsoever crime it may be natural to feel for revenge- but as soon as you revenge you'll break the law yourself and get punished.

Revenge is somthing that up to my/our EU interpretation is not legitmate for an civilized society.
If hardcore betonhead extreme one want to vote for death penalty- go for it as long as you do not here.
If you claim the right doe possessing guns- go for it as long as I can be 99% sure that I face not a single armed man in public myself I do not care.
If you do not mind the frequency one of your kids 'borrows' poppies gun and eleminates some dozends of classmates- go ahead. At least the survivors learned to seek cover in school- may be useful later on.
If you don't mind to force people towards democracy, which in fact is IMO an incredible contradiction in itself- go ahead- As long as you do not whine that we'll not follow this example. As long as you build up what you've bombed down without asking for EU money I care less.
Following different threats here I can tell you I am as happy as can be that I am where I am!
One hand claims to protect democracy around the world but the other wears a gun. And on the back waves the sword of justice. Some practice EUrope has abolished somewhat after the middle ages (aproximately)
A democratic society IMO simply can not claim a death penalty. You think different obviously but in this point will never be a consensus.
DP was, is and stays babaric. This <snip> 'eye for an eye' quote from the old testament, how often will it be misused again?
And how about 10 years in a death row?
If you want to kill them do the job!
But to send them there with 'hmm may be tomottow, next week, month, year!
Who invented this deserves the same.

Obviously the value a human life means is not that high as 'we' consider it to be.
I am honestly sick and tired of the whole 'wipe 'em out' BS!
And than you wonder why someone might develope the wish to wipe some of yours out? Who seeds winds will harvest storm- another saying from the Bible I think.
Someone sloughtered by a furious mob- and you applaud?
What if Michael Jackson found guilty for child molester in repeating cases? Stone him to death too?
You're sick guys. I mean not Americans generally but those extreme betonheads of yours.
!

 

[Zardnaar]

Well I'm sre that even a few people opposed to the death penalty would make an exception for this guy. 16 Children aged 8-15. I opposed the death penalty for murder but theres worse crimes than that. Raping and murdering kids is about as low as you can go.

 

[FearlessLeader2]

Bump.

uggabugga, check #170