Master of Mana Xtended - Download and Changelog

[The_Draf]

Hello, it has been a long time since I last played MoM. I just want to thank you guys for you commitment to this wonderful mod. This will definitely be my holiday entertainment

 

[esvath]

Just a note, mazatl are disabled for ai again.

D'oh! Will be changed in next version.

Hello, it has been a long time since I last played MoM. I just want to thank you guys for you commitment to this wonderful mod. This will definitely be my holiday entertainment

Welcome back and have fun!

 

[Nivo]

btw esvath not sure if you changed anything, but for me the barbs are fine again

 

[Linvega]

I don't know where else I should have posted this, but I'm wondering: Am I the only one to whom aggressive appears fairly weak? +10% isn't a lot when having +50% and more is quite common. Charismatic seems to me like the overall superior trait, giving more boni to high-leveled units(and let's face it, when playing MoM, your most important units should be quite high-lvl) while also giving a pretty strong "peaceful" bonus, 1 happiness.

 

[esvath]

I don't know where else I should have posted this, but I'm wondering: Am I the only one to whom aggressive appears fairly weak? +10% isn't a lot when having +50% and more is quite common. Charismatic seems to me like the overall superior trait, giving more boni to high-leveled units(and let's face it, when playing MoM, your most important units should be quite high-lvl) while also giving a pretty strong "peaceful" bonus, 1 happiness.

I was thinking the same and wanted to buff Aggressive into +15% attack or +20% attack. But then, there are Sinister and Dexterous, which give +15% attack only to one unitcombat, while Aggressive gives the bonus to many unitcombat.
Also, there is this "no resource for building Training Yard, Barrack and War Academy" which might be beneficial if you are low in lumbers.

But I have not made up my mind, so please persuade me

 

[Alexej]

Sanctify spell now recovers from hell terrain via terraforming, old effect of decreasing AC by sanctifying of razed city ruins seems to be gone, is there no way to decrease AC except Elohim or events? Or razing ashen cities and killing followers

Aggresive shouldn`t be buffed be % bonus instead give him some unit support bonus (Aggressive leaders should rely on army more than others) or training speed on top

 

[Linvega]

I was thinking the same and wanted to buff Aggressive into +15% attack or +20% attack. But then, there are Sinister and Dexterous, which give +15% attack only to one unitcombat, while Aggressive gives the bonus to many unitcombat.
Also, there is this "no resource for building Training Yard, Barrack and War Academy" which might be beneficial if you are low in lumbers.

But I have not made up my mind, so please persuade me

Unfortunately, I have already spent my arguments on my first post . The only thing I have to add is that char AFAIK already has one more promotion on 30 xp, which is quite early and even the simple strength promotions are more valuable than aggressive, and the later promotions are often pretty valuable, so getting there faster is quite valuable, too.
Well, you could simply increase aggressive to 15% and the others to 20% for starters.

 

[esvath]

Sanctify spell now recovers from hell terrain via terraforming, old effect of decreasing AC by sanctifying of razed city ruins seems to be gone, is there no way to decrease AC except Elohim or events? Or razing ashen cities and killing followers.

Purging AV from cities should reduce AC but it works in small number so you might not notice the decrease.

I find it more fitting to the theme and also it is rather hard for the AV civ to increase the AC -unless you are playing Sheaim.

Aggresive shouldn`t be buffed be % bonus instead give him some unit support bonus (Aggressive leaders should rely on army more than others) or training speed on top

Aggressive leaders do get bonus toward unit support. They do not need lumbers to build training yards, barracks and war academies. On top of that, there is this Aggressive promotion.

Unfortunately, I have already spent my arguments on my first post . The only thing I have to add is that char AFAIK already has one more promotion on 30 xp, which is quite early and even the simple strength promotions are more valuable than aggressive, and the later promotions are often pretty valuable, so getting there faster is quite valuable, too.
Well, you could simply increase aggressive to 15% and the others to 20% for starters.

I think I will make Aggressive 15% Attack/-5% Defense to most unit combats while Dexterous and Sinister 15% Attack to Archers and Recons respectively.

Or, if Charismatic is the problem (being too strong), I'll remove +1 happy from it.

Any opinion?

 

[Alexej]

Aggressive leaders do get bonus toward unit support. They do not need lumbers to build training yards, barracks and war academies. On top of that, there is this Aggressive promotion.

Ouch, its not in pedia sorry then

I think I will make Aggressive 15% Attack/-5% Defense to most unit combats while Dexterous and Sinister 15% Attack to Archers and Recons respectively.
Or, if Charismatic is the problem (being too strong), I'll remove +1 happy from it.

Any opinion?

Do not nerf charismatic please.

 

[esvath]

Ouch, its not in pedia sorry then

It's in the pedia, on Traits' page.

Do not nerf charismatic please.

I'll go with Aggressive gives +15% att/-5% def then.

 

[Alexej]

No, there is nothing about +support, only you save resources on +support buildings I do not like that -5 either but its better than nerfing Charismatic

 

[esvath]

No, there is nothing about +support, only you save resources on +support buildings I do not like that -5 either but its better than nerfing Charismatic

Oh sorry! I should make it clearer.

Aggressive does NOT directly give extra support. But by eliminating the resources requirement from those buildings, it gives "soft/indirect" bonus toward support.

 

[Linvega]

I'll go with Aggressive gives +15% att/-5% def then.

Yes I also think this is a good start. Though even then it still seems somewhat weak to me. In the direct comparison to strategist for example, you get 10% def AND 10% withdrawal on top.
And I also don't think you should nerf char. It's almost the only "militaristic" trait that I don't dislike having. With almost all the others, I'd much rather get peaceful traits, they always feel much stronger. Battle hardened for example just seems like char without the happiness.

Though maybe I'm just biased since I don't like starting early wars.

 

[esvath]

Yes I also think this is a good start. Though even then it still seems somewhat weak to me. In the direct comparison to strategist for example, you get 10% def AND 10% withdrawal on top.

But Strategist does not grant any discount toward buildings.
So, I think Aggressive at 15% att/-5% def is fine.

 

[Linvega]

But Strategist does not grant any discount toward buildings.
So, I think Aggressive at 15% att/-5% def is fine.

Dunno, I've always considered discounts to buildings more flavour than anything else unless it's on a spammable early building like the elder council or the construction yard. With a lot of civs, I don't build a noble district in more than 2-3 cities, so that's overall a pretty limited save-up.
But yeah, you're probably right with this.

 

[Alexej]

Is there some other form of protection from hostile terraform than Mana Seal in Mind Magic research tree? I do know about nature Genesis spell but thats more repair than prevention

 

[Psychodad]

I've always considered discounts to buildings more flavour than anything else unless it's on a spammable early building like the elder council or the construction yard. With a lot of civs, I don't build a noble district in more than 2-3 cities, so that's overall a pretty limited save-up.

I don't think so. Extendet is so much about specialisation. Some discouts are really worth building more of the required districts. And playing on normal or fast speed im always short on global yields, making discounts even more worthwile.

 

[BlueGenie]

Do you know how to set up Autobuild buildings Esvath?
If so there could be a workaround to the City Maintenance problem. on and around 10, and up, up, up.
Chief_Hall in small cities, not changing maintenance at all, autobuilt in 1+ size cities.
Village_Hall, requires size 6 city, autobuilt then and replacing Chief_Hall. Increases maintenance to a certain degree so bigger than 5 cities have more maintenance, reducing the big impact 11+city maintenance has by getting closer to it.
Town_Hall, requires 11+, autobuilt and replaces Village_Hall and Chief_Hall, reduces maintenances to a more manageable level for larger cities.
City_Hall, at some other size I'm not aware of that again needs Maintenances to be "normal" or decreased again, autobuilt, replaces earlier _Halls.

This might be able to offset the need for digging into the executable to change things?

 

[esvath]

Do you know how to set up Autobuild buildings Esvath?
If so there could be a workaround to the City Maintenance problem. on and around 10, and up, up, up.
Chief_Hall in small cities, not changing maintenance at all, autobuilt in 1+ size cities.
Village_Hall, requires size 6 city, autobuilt then and replacing Chief_Hall. Increases maintenance to a certain degree so bigger than 5 cities have more maintenance, reducing the big impact 11+city maintenance has by getting closer to it.
Town_Hall, requires 11+, autobuilt and replaces Village_Hall and Chief_Hall, reduces maintenances to a more manageable level for larger cities.
City_Hall, at some other size I'm not aware of that again needs Maintenances to be "normal" or decreased again, autobuilt, replaces earlier _Halls.

This might be able to offset the need for digging into the executable to change things?

Yes, I can do that but rather than doing that, I prefer to add regular buildings, maybe ones which require size 10 to build, etc.

The main question is: how damaging is current higher maintenance in size 10+ cities?

I played several test game and found that Courthouses, Merchant districts, enchantments and simply increase gold % can help, even getting surplus gold per turn (up to +50/turn). Clans and Doviello, who are lacking research infrastructure might have disadvantage but that precisely what I want for them (less "civilised", lots of small cities due bad teching). If civs that should grow tall, like Sidar, are in trouble, maybe I will make new buildings (buildable in size 10+) from them which further reduce the maintenance OR increasing income.

Thoughts?

 

[Covr]

Courthouses were just too strong during my last Sidar playtrough, the reduce of gold/maintenance cost after building courthouse vastly surpasses markets+travelling merchants. It just doesn't make sense. Maybe you should just decrease overall maintenance for Sidar by 20-30%?