Master of Mana Xtended

[Alexej]

well my favourite ffh modmod with best unit graphics ever not only survives but keeps going. Thank you VERY MUCH Esvath for every minute of your work put into this!

 

[esvath]

well my favourite ffh modmod with best unit graphics ever not only survives but keeps going. Thank you VERY MUCH Esvath for every minute of your work put into this!

I am glad that MoMana still has lots of active players!

I am changing some leaders' traits and behaviors. I hope that this could improve AI personality somewhat.

 

[Jojo_Fr]

Esvath,

About mana --> hammer conversion:
If this function is automated, it might drains your mana income and you might spend it toward unnecessary building. I created this function as a gimmick for the Circle of Magi guild, you should use it on important occasion only.

- Is that possible that the automation happenned at the end of the turn, when we are sure there would be no other way to use this mana ? It could solve an unwanted mana drain.

- If not, would it be possible to have a new button to use the spell in multiple adept/cities ? It is ok if you could only press one button per turn which use all mana into production. The problem it's in mid/late game you got tons of mana and it is boring to click, click and often click, to use this fantastic mana.

If the conversion rate is too efficient, I might increase the mana cost (so 120 mana --> 60 hammer, then 100 --> 60 and 80 --> 60).

- I am sure it is, in mid and late game. It is very pleasant to use, and I love your Guild Idea, wich increase the specialisation of each civ, and game ! But if you compare this production bonus with others guilds bonus, I think it is clear that these bonus are weaks in compareason. Especially the Slaver guild, which should not increase any unhappiness in my opinion.

- Another good think would be to block any production boost when it is about creating units or wonders. The production specialist civilization should keep the leading role to achive units, and wonders.

OSS:
I don't know what cause the OSS. Let us hope that BlackArchon and LordShaggynator (who are playing this latest Xtended in multiplayer) could help us with this.

- I am very surprise they can play in real time without OSS. Can they confirm please they play it, by internet (which way ? Hamachi ?).


- A last question Evast, do you plan to make new changements about the Aristarkhs ? I remember they were not very balanced, specially because the guilds were unadapted or empty in building for them.

 

[BlackArchon]

...
- I am very surprise they can play in real time without OSS. Can they confirm please they play it, by internet (which way ? Hamachi ?).
...

We're playing by internet using Hamachi. When we encounter an OOS error, we try to debug it. However, since not all OOS are reproducable, this is often a long process with an uncertain outcome.

 

[Alexej]

Just spent more than a hour in civilopedia alone saw even more unique unit graphics there than before! I will start playing tommorow, now just browsing new and changed stuff is entertaining and fascinating enough.
EDIT : WOW new golems really looks STUNNING! I will start with gnomes then

 

[Randomness]

I'm playing as the Amurites and from what I understand Mages Guilds (and some other stuff) should be buildable without resources because of the Arcane trait. However, I am unable to build Mages Guilds if I don't have enough wood. Even odder is that the construction of Mages Guilds doesn't seem to use any wood (at 250 before still at 250 after), but I still need the required amount to start building it.

 

[esvath]

I'm playing as the Amurites and from what I understand Mages Guilds (and some other stuff) should be buildable without resources because of the Arcane trait. However, I am unable to build Mages Guilds if I don't have enough wood. Even odder is that the construction of Mages Guilds doesn't seem to use any wood (at 250 before still at 250 after), but I still need the required amount to start building it.

IIRC, there is a bug in the DLL that makes the "not using resources" traits still check for the resources but do not subtract from them.

In your case, the Arcane trait checks whether you have 250 lumber before you can build the Mage Guild, but do not spend any lumber when you do build it.

Since it is in DLL, I have no knowledge on how to fix it. Let us hope that someone with better modding capacity could fix it sometime in the future

Just spent more than a hour in civilopedia alone saw even more unique unit graphics there than before! I will start playing tommorow, now just browsing new and changed stuff is entertaining and fascinating enough.
EDIT : WOW new golems really looks STUNNING! I will start with gnomes then

Yes, there are many new graphics that I got from civfanatics or I reskinned. I hope you enjoy playing the game!

Remember to check the Civilisation page when you start playing with a civ, especially on their unique units and which techs unlock those.

 

[esvath]

Esvath,



- Is that possible that the automation happenned at the end of the turn, when we are sure there would be no other way to use this mana ? It could solve an unwanted mana drain.

I don't think automating the spells at the end of the turn is possible.

- If not, would it be possible to have a new button to use the spell in multiple adept/cities ? It is ok if you could only press one button per turn which use all mana into production. The problem it's in mid/late game you got tons of mana and it is boring to click, click and often click, to use this fantastic mana.

It might be possible to make a spell that would spend mana to production but that would miss the true objective of Conjure Matter, which is spending mana to help production in specific way.

In my opinion, the general use of mana is for casting Global Enchantment, then to summon units, then to cast direct damage spells. Only if you do not do all three then the "left-over" mana could be spent into something useful. The default mechanism of the game is by converting mana to spell research, but Conjure Matter provides you with alternative way of spending mana by transforming it to production. But Conjure Matter was never meant to be the foremost way of spending mana.

Maybe Conjure Matter is too efficient now. I might increase the mana cost so it will become less efficient.

- I am sure it is, in mid and late game. It is very pleasant to use, and I love your Guild Idea, wich increase the specialisation of each civ, and game ! But if you compare this production bonus with others guilds bonus, I think it is clear that these bonus are weaks in compareason. Especially the Slaver guild, which should not increase any unhappiness in my opinion.

Slaver Guild without happiness penalty will be even more powerful than Conjure Matter

With Conjure Matter, you can build your economy by neglecting military (using mana for production instead for summoning units).

With Slaver Guild, you will get production bonus (slaves) by improving your military and defeating your enemy.
If you feel like the happiness penalty is too great, try to build Guild of Nine buildings/wonder. They are there to counter the unhappiness of Slavery. The Pillar of Chains and the Jet Throne also help by either making the unhappiness irrelevant or reducing the happiness penalty of the evil act (rushing with population).

If you choose Ashen Veil Slaver though, you might suffer a little bit in the beginning of the game but after Sacrifice of the Weak you will be alright. Just don't forget to toggle "restrain growth by unhappiness" button off in each city

- Another good think would be to block any production boost when it is about creating units or wonders. The production specialist civilization should keep the leading role to achive units, and wonders.

I am not sure I can do this, but I'll check it later. However, if it is possible, I would block Conjure Matter from creating units only. You should be able to rush buildings and wonders using the spell.

Also, if I make the change, it will also affect Rune of Kilmorph's miracle that convert faith to production.

- A last question Evast, do you plan to make new changements about the Aristarkhs ? I remember they were not very balanced, specially because the guilds were unadapted or empty in building for them.

I am not comfortable to change Aristarkh since it is tesb's baby, as well as changing Scion of Patria since it is Tarquelne's. That is why I keep both civs using the old mechanics (without unit rooster and without "unit strength increasing automatically"). Those two are undead, anyway, so we can just assume that their civs have different mechanism
But iirc, I did change their units' strength to be more in accordance with other civs.

The Dural, Jotnar and Mazatl are the last three civs that I have not converted to the new mechanics since I am unfamiliar with these. If you, or anyone, have any suggestions on how these three should adopt the new mechanics (what are their unit rooster, which techs should be their focus, what are their special theme, etc) go ahead write it down here. I will see whether I could mod the idea or not

Thanks for the detailed input, Jojo_Fr!

 

[esvath]

We're playing by internet using Hamachi. When we encounter an OOS error, we try to debug it. However, since not all OOS are reproducable, this is often a long process with an uncertain outcome.

Thank you, BlackArchon.

I have started to write down things that in my opinion require fixing/further modding in Post #1, so that you and LordShaggynator could take a look at them and maybe fixing/modding them sometime during your free time. Thanks in advance!

 

[Calavente]

It might be possible to make a spell that would spend mana to production but that would miss the true objective of Conjure Matter, which is spending mana to help production in specific way.

In my opinion, the general use of mana is for casting Global Enchantment, then to summon units, then to cast direct damage spells. Only if you do not do all three then the "left-over" mana could be spent into something useful. The default mechanism of the game is by converting mana to spell research, but Conjure Matter provides you with alternative way of spending mana by transforming it to production. But Conjure Matter was never meant to be the foremost way of spending mana.

Maybe Conjure Matter is too efficient now. I might increase the mana cost so it will become less efficient.

I have no real opinion on the rest of your post but for conjure matter here are my thougths:
IIRC for me Mana is : 1) Global enchantments 2) direct damage spells, 3) summoning units (I like to have a few of them, but not too much... I'd rather have +60xp on my new born units)

Conjure Matter, when I go arcane guild, is the foremost use of spending mana... and it would stay so even if it were less interesting.
In MoM, contrarily to other FFH modmods, are scarce.

And you really need high-hammer-buildings in most cities : "DISCTRICTS" ... especially since sage district is the only one that is really useful for mana / spellresearch /research, Merchant district is absolutly needed in order to get the 2nd level district for a direct 15-40 gold income, and Noble district is absolutly needed for FAITH / CULTURE (guilds buying and traits), and lastly for improving a bit your unit cap.

so, while Noble district can wait for the city to be big enough, merchant district and sage, often need to be built asap....

if Districts were less essential in small cities
or if there was less issues with getting hammers in small cities..
then maybe Conjure Matter would have less appeal

(the only recent game I did not go arcane guild for conjure matter was when I played Kilmorph as religion: ergo: I could replace the hammers from conjure matter by hammers from faith.)

and a question: did you look at darksavant's disciplines/classes for arcane ? he/she had nice ideas ... even I there were some I didn't like :/

 

[esvath]

if Districts were less essential in small cities
or if there was less issues with getting hammers in small cities..
then maybe Conjure Matter would have less appeal

(the only recent game I did not go arcane guild for conjure matter was when I played Kilmorph as religion: ergo: I could replace the hammers from conjure matter by hammers from faith.)

Ah, this is good argument!

I will check at the buildings and maybe add one or two generic hammer-producing buildings available for all cities.

Again, I want Conjure Matter to provide benefits but not dictate players to *always* use it.

Just like Kilmorph's Rush Production miracle. It provides a good mechanic for Kilmorph players but does not necessarily dictate you have to adopt RoK and use it (maybe because other religions also provide good boni?).

and a question: did you look at darksavant's disciplines/classes for arcane ? he/she had nice ideas ... even I there were some I didn't like :/

I did check Darksavant's mod and adopted some of his/her ideas. He also modded the DLL, however, so I could not adopt all of his/her idea.

 

[sungchiahao]

downloaded! So many new units. Which civ would be the least overwhelming?

 

[esvath]

downloaded! So many new units. Which civ would be the least overwhelming?

Try the Kuriotates first. Other than their Sprawling trait, their units are almost the same with vanilla.

Always look at the civ's page in the Pedia and learn what their units are and which techs are required to build them. That will help you in planning your research.

 

[BlackArchon]

...
I am not comfortable to change Aristarkh since it is tesb's baby, as well as changing Scion of Patria since it is Tarquelne's. That is why I keep both civs using the old mechanics (without unit rooster and without "unit strength increasing automatically"). Those two are undead, anyway, so we can just assume that their civs have different mechanism
But iirc, I did change their units' strength to be more in accordance with other civs.
...

I just send you a PM from tesb and me from two days ago. Basically you are free to change the Aristrakh as you like.
And about Tarquelne: I remember being in contact with him about two years ago. He gave me a similar response, if I remember correctly.

 

[sungchiahao]

Where do I find the improvement yield file? The querry does not increase cottage in game, but the tool tip says so. Where would I look to find this interaction? Thanks, I'd like to fix it if it is simple fixes.

 

[esvath]

I just send you a PM from tesb and me from two days ago. Basically you are free to change the Aristrakh as you like.
And about Tarquelne: I remember being in contact with him about two years ago. He gave me a similar response, if I remember correctly.

Thank you! Alright then, I will see what I can do with them.

Where do I find the improvement yield file? The querry does not increase cottage in game, but the tool tip says so. Where would I look to find this interaction? Thanks, I'd like to fix it if it is simple fixes.

This is one of the left over mechanic that I don't think is working anymore. We need to fix the tool tips somehow

I'll add it to the list in the first page.

 

[sungchiahao]

Try the Kuriotates first. Other than their Sprawling trait, their units are almost the same with vanilla.

Always look at the civ's page in the Pedia and learn what their units are and which techs are required to build them. That will help you in planning your research.

I cannot build settlers as Kuriotates in the game... It seems that the option is not there once I build my main cities. Like the portrait is missing, not just grayed out. But I should be able to build the settlements...

 

[Alexej]

I am hearing new unit sounds is that your work too? Adding them in? I like it!

 

[BlackArchon]

Esvath, please add to the todo list:
* passive terraforming of the Illians seems to fight against some other passive terraforming

 

[esvath]

I cannot build settlers as Kuriotates in the game... It seems that the option is not there once I build my main cities. Like the portrait is missing, not just grayed out. But I should be able to build the settlements...

It is by design.

Kuriotates civ causing lots of CTDs when trying to produce Settlers when they have reached the maximum number of cities.

I don't know whether this is AI-related problem (AI Kuriotates tried to do something with their Settlers but unable to) or Kuriotates-related. Thus, I am disabling both human and AI Kuriotates from training Settlers after they reached the maximum number of cities.

I'll add this in the first post, hopefully BlackArchon and LordShaggynator could take a look and fix it.

I am hearing new unit sounds is that your work too? Adding them in? I like it!

Yes, there are several new unit sounds. Some were tesb's work, these were already included in the latest MoMana but never been incorporated to the game. The others were files that I got the files from somewhere (none that I made by myself )

Esvath, please add to the todo list:
* passive terraforming of the Illians seems to fight against some other passive terraforming

OK.