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Masters of Mana

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by [to_xp]Gekko, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. Gromblmompf

    Gromblmompf Chieftain

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    Press Shift+Strg+Alt+O (i think... it was a lot of buttons and O) to get into the BUG menu... you can turn all kinds of counters on and off there.
     
  2. Gaspar~

    Gaspar~ Chieftain

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    Really interesting stuff guys. Mod is way over my head but I enjoy reading the reports.
     
  3. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    give it a try, it's complex, not complicated: you can do fine without much knowledge, but there's much to learn as you get some experience under your belt ;)

    Gromblmompf you're next :D
     
  4. Ororo

    Ororo Chieftain

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    I'm really impressed by your reports and the mod itself :) Must try it myself... The complexity scares me a little bit but hopefully I've learned some basics reading through this SG :)
     
  5. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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  6. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    while we wait for the next turnset, let's point out a couple differences with FFH for lurkers ;)



    1) warriors can upgrade into hunters/horsemen. very useful for civs that want to go recon/mounted, since you no longer HAVE TO build scouts if you want to upgrade them later. OTOH, scouts are cheaper to build now so everyone will probably want some for early exploration.




    2) in FFH ( and BTS ) , animals only spawned in the very early game, and stopped doing so as soon as barbarians started showing up in their place. this meant that the whole great animal capturing "minigame" often went to waste since there'd be no animals around by the time you get set to capture them.

    in MoM, they keep spawning all game alongside barbs. they generally don't enter cultural borders, but sometimes gain a "rage" promotion that makes them do so ( removed after combat ) . there's also new animals, depending on the wilderness level you might see lizards, allosauri, drakes, mammoth, dragons etc :crazyeye:

    they are also linked to terrain, for example tiger and gorillas spawn in jungle, mammoth in snow etc.




    3) there's no longer promotions that allow to capture animals. instead, all recon units have a passive chance to do so, which gets higher with tier ( scouts - hunters - rangers - beastmasters )

    this way you can start capturing them very early, but you won't be able to easily capture a crapton of them :crazyeye:




    4) barbarian-spawning lairs are more heavily defended, but no longer give bad results when explored. this gives you an incentive to actually go out and clear them ( getting a fair reward in the process ) instead of just keeping them around and farming them for easy XP.

    lairs that do not spawn baddies still have a risk-reward mechanic, which is why we haven't cleared that dungeon 1S of Garduk yet :D



    5) a point about the new AI, you might remember the "spider exploit" from FFH:

    essentially, you just needed a spider and a civ with no recon units around to see him. you could kill all of their workers, and they would do nothing but rebuild them for hidden arachnids to kill them again and again.

    this meant you could keep an enemy civ in the stone age virtually forever :scan:


    that doesn't work anymore in MoM thanx to how the AI works. if you harass them with hidden units, they will immediately set a "get something that can see invisible" goal and assess the situation correctly.

    in the aforementioned spider exploit that would be building a quick scout to see the spider and overwhelm it with numbers :D




    6) also something you may notice later on :D

    Pyre Zombies are nerfed compared to FFH: they're still very good of course, but no longer completely game-ending.

    many of the cheap ways to victory in FFH got nerfed in MoM, like Aristocracy+Agrarianism , Calabim Governor's Manor etc.

    there's a lot more buildings, and they are often worth building ( unlike FFH where building military is the norm ) since they are all quite useful and fairly priced.

    all of the "less interesting" FFH civs got some new unique mechanics, and there's some new civs as well. ( Doviello get unique promotions from defeating animals, Hippus can set units to be "AI controlled" to influence wars without having to declare one ... and much more :D
     
  7. MaxWar

    MaxWar Chieftain

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    And this is just scratching the surface :p
     
  8. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    don't scare them away :p
     
  9. Gromblmompf

    Gromblmompf Chieftain

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    Nanuk´s tale, part II:

    Soldiers, soldiers, soldiers. Everywhere. Everyone of the citypeople seems to have taken up arms. Clad in heavy furs and wielding barbed spears they march through the town where i am working (after we finish the wooden palisade, they made me build something they call "temple"... made of the white stones from the east). Following and sometimes charging ahead of the furmen are big huge wolves, bigger than any wolf i ever saw before the citypeople came. When they return, they tell tales of how they fought Orcs and Goblins and even living Skeletons and the most wondrous riches they found when they plundered their lairs. One of them is most impressive, he claims he slayed 2 Orcs all by himself and took the armor of the Orc warchief, made of the darkest hide. He calls himself Captain Rawhide. What a strange name.



    When we finish the temple, something most amazing happens. As we put the last stone into the last wall of the building, huge white clouds gather on the horizon and quickly draw nearer. When they reach our city, they unload huge snowflakes, thunder and lightning. One cannot see his hand before his eyes for a long time. When the terrible storm finally subsides, the landscapes in the city, and even many leagues around the city has been changed. Where once were green hills and plains, now only snow and ice reigns. Everything is covered in white. Most impressive. The citypeople must be very powerful.



    There is not much time for me to admire the great magic building i helped erecting, cos they send me to the east, where they seem to have founded a new city. I bet they will make me build a wooden palisade again. My hands hurt terribly from chopping all those tress, but now they have grown hard and strong and i am sure i will build faster now. As we and the other slaves (i wonder what a slave is... there is no such word in my tongue - but thats how they call me) are on our way, we are overtaken by mighty citypeople hunters, one of them is the great hero Aryit. He carries a hawk and o wonder! The bird does not try to escape, but sits on his arm. He can even make him fly on command and the hawk will return to him! Aryit looks at our group and then commands me to follow him. I am made his personal servant and all i have to do is to look after his hawk. I am even given tools made out of the finest metal i ever touched.



    We march past the new city (they call it Closer... and there they are not building on a wall, but on a strange thing made of stone in the center of the city that looks like a huge icicle) and into the wilderness. After many many leagues we reach the top of the hill and what we see you will not believe.



    But i swear i saw it with my own eyes. More citypeople, but different. Much darker, even more grim. They live in a city too, but their houses are made of black stone, adorned with skulls and bones and things most vile. Most of them arent really people, if you ask me. They are covered in flames! No, thats not true... they not covered in flames, they burn. Their flesh is ablaze and yet, they are not being eaten by the flames. How can that be? Are they even mightier than my citypeople? And there are so many of them. Aryit doesnt seem to like them, he orders us back and whips me every day of our journey back to Closer. When we arrive there, the stone icicle is finished and they are building a wooden palisade (ha! i knew it!). The ice has spread, to the south of Lakis it has started to conquer even the desert... maybe the magic of my citypeople is yet stronger than the firedemons?



    We join some other Hunters and their huge Wolves and travel north, slaying Orcs and Goblins (well, i dont fight even tho i now feel strong and rested, but i dont dare to ask if they would give me a weapon) and taking precious plunder from every lair. We are in deep woods when a messenger from their capital (another word i dont understand, but i learned that they mean their first city up to the north) arrives, bringng glorious news. There they built a wonder they call Ogham Landmark! The citypeople get very excited about this and drink and celebrate and praise their leader Braendan. Before they fall asleep, they howl to the moon like their wolves.One day, i want to meet this Braendan. He must be a very wise and very modest man, if so many mighty warriors and animals heed his call.



    The next leagues we wander around the kingdom of the citypeople, very comfortable cos they have made pathways of stone from city to city and we can travel fast and easily. When we come past to where i once lived, i warn Aryit to not enter that cursed dungeon. He looks at me unbelievingly, but still listens. A few seasons later i hear that a Hunter from Garduk was foolish enough it to explore that dreaded place and was cursed with a horrible plague. When we slay the last goblin in the south, Aryit finds a shining Amulet. It will give him eternal life! The next days are the happiest days since i was made to join the citypeople. Aryit is in a very good mood and i dont get a single strike from the whip for nearly a whole week.



    This is my story so far... i´ve seen the whole of the empire of the citypeople and was witness to the mighty magic they can create. I wonder what the next seasons will bring...

     
  10. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    nice! I'll play my set later when I get home. :goodjob:

    one thing I've noticed: you've posted the same screenshot twice ( the one right after the temple of the hand is built in Lakis ) ;)
     
  11. Gromblmompf

    Gromblmompf Chieftain

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    Hi

    sry, took me a little while to play my turns... work and stuff kept me busy.

    I finished Animal Husbandry and researched Bronze Working, Lumbermills (for Javelin Throwers and chopping woods), Tracking and Cartography. Now set sail for Way of the Wicked - switch to Undercouncil and the Cartography social setting that gives +10% Hammers and +20% culture then? Its still the first turn of research tho, if we wanna take another course, feel free.

    Built the Ogham Landmark in Garduk, it will give us a Great Prophet in not too many turns... we can either take a Golden Age or settle him somewhere (maybe even get lots of Faith for an Ilian wonder?).

    Founded the new city closer, rushed a monument with Stone (also rushed the last 4 or 5 turns of the temple in Lakis), now building a palisade.

    Very unhappy with the way our army is set up, we have nothing but Hunters and Wolves. I really hate to have a Hunter as a city guard. We need city garrisons, but our army limit is full. We cant even build a warrior.I tried to kill off a few wolves, but most of them didnt die. (i named the bravest one Superwolf). We now have 5 wolf packs at max experience (30 xp), no idea what to do with them. Sheaim seem much too strong to battle, no idea how to beat those legions of Pyre Zombies in their capital. The good news is that it looks as if they would only have their capital and not even a 2ndary city.

    We should build a 5th city to the southwest of Lakis, on the hill to the right of the Corn resource. Our capital is still unhealthy and i think we can afford a 5th city.

    Captain Rawhide gained Resist Poison when battling some goblins. Cool eh. :) In my last turns, i made the Hunter from Garduk explore the dungeon to the south and he caught a terrible plague. My bad, but when we get Priests, we will be able to cure him.

    So far, so good Team MoM! I think we´re doing a great job! Especially since Aline stopped killing every single unit of ours. ;-)
     
  12. Gromblmompf

    Gromblmompf Chieftain

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    Thanks fixed it but you wont like what you see.
     
  13. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    a couple points for lurkers:

    1) you might have noticed that "blue wheat" looking thingie on water tiles, that's kelp: it slows movement down and adds +1F +1C . makes coast and ocean tiles decent where plentiful. thanx to that and the reduced amount of tile improvements built, coastal cities are actually good now unlike FFH ( where coast/ocean tiles are pretty crappy )

    2) unforested snow tiles in Illian territory have a per-turn chance to spawn a blizzard. these move around for some turns before expiring, turning all adjacent tiles into snow as well. you might notice how after we built the temple of the hand in Lakis, snow also spread both south ( beyond our borders ) and north ( Garduk is completely frozen now ) . a bit of nice added flavour for the Illians, useful flavour :D

    3) Ogham Landmark is a new early wonder, gives some bonuses the most important being a free priest. very useful to get a Great Prophet without having to actually use a priest specialist ;)

    4) most tile improvements are available from the very start of the game, so you're more flexible without having to rush for some early techs depending on surrounding resources. you'll still want those techs soon though, to enable the resources. ( ex: you can build pasture on sheep on turn 1 for the food, but you need Weaving tech to enable sheep resource and get the health bonus )

    5) that "crossed hammers" icon above the city bar allows you to easily see which cities can have more improvements built in their BFC :)
     
  14. Gromblmompf

    Gromblmompf Chieftain

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    Yes yes also forgot the save. Dont make fun of an old man. :king::hatsoff:
     

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  15. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    if I don't get burned and raped by pyre zombies in my turnset I won't :p
     
  16. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    wolves and hunters are fast, especially with roads. The wolves will soften any stack of pyre zombies, (they are pointless now, since they can no longer take promotions, however, if we can get 1 more unit support than our army size, they will generate a wolf after victory, which an also be used to suicide and soften any Sheaim stack) The hunters can finish them off in the field, before they get close to our cities. Just remember to attack from two tiles away, and the pyre zombies will be no threat, especially once we get fireshield. Get roads built 1 tile outside our border, and we can slide in, hit them, then retreat out of their reach. Staying on the attack nets the most XP, and it keeps you in charge of the battlefield.

    we also need to build forests to camps, because most of our army uses leather.

    Might also be a good idea to equip our most powerful units with javelins, since our lumber supply is large, but we have only one unit I know of that took the skirmish (useless, :/) discipline.
     
  17. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko WM junkie

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    a couple more FFH vs MoM differences before I get to play my turnset :D

    1) minimum distance between cities is up to 3 ( from FFH/BTS 2 ) , which ties in with the increased city maintenance to make mindless cityspam a thing of the past. it's also good for the AI, improved their city placement.


    2) less micromanagement, a lot less actually. thanx to the new mechanics, pretty much all the micro-intensive things from FFH are gone. for example:

    haste? no need to cast it each and every turn, it's an aura so just keep an adept in your stack and you're fine ( many "unit enhancing" spells are now auras, so they are allways on and don't need to be recasted all the time )

    terraforming? no need to move units around individually, it's all done from the magic interface in a much more convenient way.



    3) many unique mechanics have been reworked so they can easily be grasped by the AI and require less micro from the player. examples:

    Calabim feasting: it's a global enchantment, you just cast it: your global population decreases and your vampires get XP based on lost population. no need to move individual vampires around and cast "feast" all the time

    Sidar waning: this was actually something the AI was BLOCKED from doing in FFH, since it just could't handle it. not anymore though, the AI can and will use it. global enchantment, just cast it: your units get some XP removed and you'll get some shades in your capital ( how many depends on how much XP was removed )


    4) on the faith system: each religion got its own unique ways of granting more faith points: spread forests for FoL, fight evil for Order, hoard gold for RoK, etc.

    you'll have to please the gods to gain their favour :)
     
  18. Gromblmompf

    Gromblmompf Chieftain

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    Of course are hunters and wolves fast, thats why its silly to have to have them standing around and guarding our cities.

    I agree and we´re only 161 turns away from Basic Abjuration ;). And thats with 2 spellresearch boosts from monster lairs.
     
  19. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    Yeah, we need to get some garrisoned units.



    you'd be surprised how fast it can go with lairs. I wish I had thought to go for it first off. I don't think we have any trade devoted to fireshield. Perhaps we should start investing in it and building mages guilds.

    But even without fireshield, I think we can keep the sheaim at bay pretty easily. Do frostmaidens have healing? If so, we can garrison one in Close, for faster healing.

    Also, I know you can taunt barbs from their lairs. It must have something to do with how fortified they are.
     
  20. MaxWar

    MaxWar Chieftain

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    I took the liberty of opening the save :p

    By researching archery and building a training yard in lakis, you could start training archers and garrisoning them as they come out. In about 15 turns.

    I think that's what i would do. ( just my 2 cents ;)
     

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