Math01 - My first SG: OCC Space Race
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
Ok, got it. Any discussion required? I think I know what to do. We have our research path already written down. When Shake's is done, work for growth. I can start the workers irrigating 3 turns before Shakes is done. We'll need to precisely time the mm for shields after we're done growing (to size 21), I'll think about that... Anything else?
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
I had sold Chemistry at monopol for Navigation at monopol... To the Zulus.
You can probably move the citizen from the coast to an irrigated grass. I probably could have done the same for the entire turnset - we were only at 100% science for 1 of the last 15 turns. 
You could also start clearing the forests 3 turns before Shake's is complete. Probably better off doing all irrigation first, though. If we can trade for steam power and go straight into industrialization, we could use the forest shields for factory. Precisely time mm? I don't follow...
Recap:
After FA, get Metallurgy. Tow Russia and Sumeria, get SP if you can. If you get it, find coal. Tow someone else if necessary to trade for coal. Go for Industrialization before Electricity. Get our city growing, and build more workers - we will need 12 total.
@Kahn: Chem for Nav was the only way to protect our prebuild of Newton's. I'm not sure what your point was with that last post.
You could also start clearing the forests 3 turns before Shake's is complete. Probably better off doing all irrigation first, though. If we can trade for steam power and go straight into industrialization, we could use the forest shields for factory. Precisely time mm? I don't follow...Recap:
After FA, get Metallurgy. Tow Russia and Sumeria, get SP if you can. If you get it, find coal. Tow someone else if necessary to trade for coal. Go for Industrialization before Electricity. Get our city growing, and build more workers - we will need 12 total.
@Kahn: Chem for Nav was the only way to protect our prebuild of Newton's. I'm not sure what your point was with that last post.
Preflight (850AD)
No trades available. Our monopolies are demo and ToG.
The Mongols seem to be eating Egypt.
(I) zzz
T1 (860AD)
(I) Mongols & Egypt sign peace. Dinnertime's over.
T2 (870AD)
(I) zzz
T3 (880AD)
I send out the troops to start irrigatin'.
Magnets to Japan for Wm, 34g, and 24gpt.
(I) Free Artistry comes in, switch to Shakes in 2.
T4 (890AD)
Still no one has Metals, so we're gonna have to self-research it.
(I) zzz
T5 (900AD)
(I) Music to Mongols for Furs, Wm, and 1g.
5gpt to Zulu for gems.
Ladies, I give you the Shakes.
T6 (910AD)
MM for growth.
ToG to Zulu for WM, 200g, and 46gpt.
(I) Trees in our yard.
Zulu disover Demo.
T7 (920AD)
Music to Egypt for WM, 27g, and 3gpt.
(I) zzz
T8 (930AD)
(I) Sombody beat us to Metals by 1 turn, both Zulu and Japan have it now.
T9 (940AD)
Buy Metals off the Japanese for 10g. According to CivAssist II, we actually have very little waste here.
Gift up Russia: Physics, Metals, ToG, Demo, and Magnets for Iron, WM, RoP, and 3g. They got Steam.
Gift up Sumeria: Magnets, Metals, Demo, and ToG for WM, RoP, and 15g. They got Medicine.
Get Medicine from Sumeria for FA, WM, and 2975g.
Get Steam from Russia for FA, Med, 506g, and 131gpt.
Steam to Sumeria for 2358g.
Start on Industrialization in 9 @ -48gpt.
Ok, the only people I see with more than one coal is the Japanese...who have 3, none of which is hooked up. Sumerians have 1, Russians have none. There's actually another unclaimed source near us, should I go for it? Hm...
(I) Zulu declare war on Egypt.
T10 (950AD)
(I) zzz
T11 (960AD)
Demo to Japan for WM, 44g, and 13gpt.
(I) zzz
T12 (970AD)
(I) All of a sudden, everyone has econ.
T13 (980AD)
Demo to Mongols for econ, dyes, ivory, and WM
Steam to Zulu for WM and 53gpt.
(I) zzz
T14 (990AD)
(I) Zulu wants MA against Egypt. Nah.
T15 (1000AD)
Investigate Novo for 41g: 0cpt, 1spt, building a longbow.
zzz
Next player: London is MM'd to grow every other turn. Grow her up to size 20, then start building a worker every other turn until we have 12. Most of our workers are over by the unclaimed coal; we should have a colony over there in 2 turns. That colony should hold for awhile, since Novo has no culture and none building.
That's it, I hope I did ok. Steam was expensive. If we're the first to Industrialization, we should get a bundle for it. I decided not to prebuild the factory yet because we wouldn't have finished it before we went into worker farm mode, and anyway we have little use for it while building workers. We're at tech parity with Russia, the Zulu, and the Sumerians, and we're well ahead of the others.
Teh Save
No trades available. Our monopolies are demo and ToG.
The Mongols seem to be eating Egypt.
(I) zzz
T1 (860AD)
(I) Mongols & Egypt sign peace. Dinnertime's over.
T2 (870AD)
(I) zzz
T3 (880AD)
I send out the troops to start irrigatin'.
Magnets to Japan for Wm, 34g, and 24gpt.
(I) Free Artistry comes in, switch to Shakes in 2.
T4 (890AD)
Still no one has Metals, so we're gonna have to self-research it.
(I) zzz
T5 (900AD)
(I) Music to Mongols for Furs, Wm, and 1g.
5gpt to Zulu for gems.
Ladies, I give you the Shakes.
T6 (910AD)
MM for growth.
ToG to Zulu for WM, 200g, and 46gpt.
(I) Trees in our yard.
Zulu disover Demo.
T7 (920AD)
Music to Egypt for WM, 27g, and 3gpt.
(I) zzz
T8 (930AD)
(I) Sombody beat us to Metals by 1 turn, both Zulu and Japan have it now.
T9 (940AD)
Buy Metals off the Japanese for 10g. According to CivAssist II, we actually have very little waste here.
Gift up Russia: Physics, Metals, ToG, Demo, and Magnets for Iron, WM, RoP, and 3g. They got Steam.
Gift up Sumeria: Magnets, Metals, Demo, and ToG for WM, RoP, and 15g. They got Medicine.
Get Medicine from Sumeria for FA, WM, and 2975g.
Get Steam from Russia for FA, Med, 506g, and 131gpt.
Steam to Sumeria for 2358g.
Start on Industrialization in 9 @ -48gpt.
Ok, the only people I see with more than one coal is the Japanese...who have 3, none of which is hooked up. Sumerians have 1, Russians have none. There's actually another unclaimed source near us, should I go for it? Hm...
(I) Zulu declare war on Egypt.
T10 (950AD)
(I) zzz
T11 (960AD)
Demo to Japan for WM, 44g, and 13gpt.
(I) zzz
T12 (970AD)
(I) All of a sudden, everyone has econ.
T13 (980AD)
Demo to Mongols for econ, dyes, ivory, and WM
Steam to Zulu for WM and 53gpt.
(I) zzz
T14 (990AD)
(I) Zulu wants MA against Egypt. Nah.
T15 (1000AD)
Investigate Novo for 41g: 0cpt, 1spt, building a longbow.
zzz
Next player: London is MM'd to grow every other turn. Grow her up to size 20, then start building a worker every other turn until we have 12. Most of our workers are over by the unclaimed coal; we should have a colony over there in 2 turns. That colony should hold for awhile, since Novo has no culture and none building.
That's it, I hope I did ok. Steam was expensive. If we're the first to Industrialization, we should get a bundle for it. I decided not to prebuild the factory yet because we wouldn't have finished it before we went into worker farm mode, and anyway we have little use for it while building workers. We're at tech parity with Russia, the Zulu, and the Sumerians, and we're well ahead of the others.
Teh Save
Most of it looks good. I see one big mistake, though. Demo is not a required tech. You didn't have to give it to Sumeria or Russia to have them get their free techs. So you could've traded it back to help buy medicine and steam -- would've saved a ton of cash.
Good idea on the colony, and the iron trade.
Renata
Good idea on the colony, and the iron trade.
Renata
Yeah, aside from the Demo thing, this looks good. We will be first to Industrialization, because the AI will go for Nat'lism. Do not trade for Nat'lism anytime soon - we don't need it for anything. My brother has my CD now, so I'll check out the save later this afternoon or this evening, and post any further comments then.
Sorry, I could have described this better. I knew Demo isn't a required tech, but it is required for Free Artistry, and we didn't have a monopoly on Demo at the time (the Zulu had it). So it didn't go down exactly as I recorded it: I gifted them up, and the resulting trades (Steam and Med for Demo & money) required a lot of money, I don't remember how much, but a lot. So I gifted them demo, hoping that the monopoly FA would give us much better deals. I was very surprised when I had to give > 100gpt along with FA (at 2nd) and medicine (at 2nd) for Steam...
That's what I was thinking at the time. Of course, in hindsight, I could have given them demo and lotsa money for Steam & Medicine, and then tried to get the cash back for FA, but it's unclear (to me) if that would have worked. I've had situations where I've traded gpt to a civ, and then they won't trade it immediately back...
So you're probably right, it was a mistake, but possibly not as big a mistake as you guys suggest. Anyways, sorry...
Suggestion for Civ IV: allow us to trade through a tech tree, i.e. let me trade both Demo and FA at the same time...
That's what I was thinking at the time. Of course, in hindsight, I could have given them demo and lotsa money for Steam & Medicine, and then tried to get the cash back for FA, but it's unclear (to me) if that would have worked. I've had situations where I've traded gpt to a civ, and then they won't trade it immediately back...
So you're probably right, it was a mistake, but possibly not as big a mistake as you guys suggest. Anyways, sorry...
Suggestion for Civ IV: allow us to trade through a tech tree, i.e. let me trade both Demo and FA at the same time...
Yes, it was a big mistake, but it is not a big deal. We could have saved over 3000 gold (nearly 1000 up front, and over 100 per turn - I shadowed the turns up to the trade), but gold is not an issue. We will be rolling in it soon enough.
Now then, I do not want to Industrialization for too little. If they are unable to pay a decent price, wait for current deals to end. In fact, wait even longer than that. The AIs love those optional government techs.
My thoughts on research path after Industrialization:
The Corporation
Electricity
Replaceable Parts
Scientific Method
We should be able to trade Ind+gold for Nat'lism @ 4th or 5th. I would like to give the AI the opportunity to research Refining and Steel while we get Electricity and Replaceable Parts. It is hard to speculate here. The Zulu are running strong, Sumeria is catching up, Japan is doing well, but Russia may be falling behind.
Now then, I do not want to Industrialization for too little. If they are unable to pay a decent price, wait for current deals to end. In fact, wait even longer than that. The AIs love those optional government techs.
My thoughts on research path after Industrialization:
The Corporation
Electricity
Replaceable Parts
Scientific Method
We should be able to trade Ind+gold for Nat'lism @ 4th or 5th. I would like to give the AI the opportunity to research Refining and Steel while we get Electricity and Replaceable Parts. It is hard to speculate here. The Zulu are running strong, Sumeria is catching up, Japan is doing well, but Russia may be falling behind.
Khan_Asparuh
Just a Bulgarian Eddie
It's going quite fine guys. Actually the Demo problem is that as a government tech it costs about the same at 3d as FA at monopol... I think.
Whatever, we can get our money back quite fast.
I agree on Mathias research path. Corporation is definitely the tech that matters now, the others will give us only partial benefits. Its cheap too.
Whatever, we can get our money back quite fast.
I agree on Mathias research path. Corporation is definitely the tech that matters now, the others will give us only partial benefits. Its cheap too.
Save
Preturn 1000AD:
Industrialization in 3
Colony built
Start prebuild for factory
Turn 1 1010AD:
IBT:
Coal online
Japan building smith
Turn 2 1020AD:
Science to 80
IBT:
Rebuy Silks from Japan for the same (5gpt)
Turn 3 1030AD:
Industralization->Corporation at 100% in 7
Factory in 13
Turn 4 1040AD:
IBT:
Inca building Smith
Turn 5 1050AD:
IBT:
Egypt building Bach
Turn 9 1090AD:
Able to turn science down to 10%
Turn 10 1100AD:
Corporation->Electricity in 8 at 100%
Furs are gone
3 railroads are done
Use magnetism to buy back our furs
Just hit size 20
IBT:
Rebuy our Gems
Turn 11 1110AD:
IBT:
Zulu building Smith
Egypt building Bach
Turn 12 1120AD:
Our income drops
IBT:
Egypt building Bach
Turn 13 1130AD:
We get polution
A worker will be done next turn
Turn 14 1140AD:
Everyone but Inca, Mongols and Egypt get Nationalism
Turn 15 1150AD:
Everyone but Mongols and Egypt get MT
Polution cleanup starts
Iron deal ends
Notes:
Have the workers railroad 1 square each, so if our coal is gone we will finish those squares.
Preturn 1000AD:
Industrialization in 3
Colony built
Start prebuild for factory
Turn 1 1010AD:
IBT:
Coal online
Japan building smith
Turn 2 1020AD:
Science to 80
IBT:
Rebuy Silks from Japan for the same (5gpt)
Turn 3 1030AD:
Industralization->Corporation at 100% in 7
Factory in 13
Turn 4 1040AD:
IBT:
Inca building Smith
Turn 5 1050AD:
IBT:
Egypt building Bach
Turn 9 1090AD:
Able to turn science down to 10%
Turn 10 1100AD:
Corporation->Electricity in 8 at 100%
Furs are gone
3 railroads are done
Use magnetism to buy back our furs
Just hit size 20
IBT:
Rebuy our Gems
Turn 11 1110AD:
IBT:
Zulu building Smith
Egypt building Bach
Turn 12 1120AD:
Our income drops
IBT:
Egypt building Bach
Turn 13 1130AD:
We get polution
A worker will be done next turn
Turn 14 1140AD:
Everyone but Inca, Mongols and Egypt get Nationalism
Turn 15 1150AD:
Everyone but Mongols and Egypt get MT
Polution cleanup starts
Iron deal ends
Notes:
Have the workers railroad 1 square each, so if our coal is gone we will finish those squares.
I was able to look at the save briefly last night, and we look ok. I would have saved the factory for later, but that's just me. Looks like you get to build every-other-turn workers for awhile, Renata. We need to get our iron back, that should be no problem.
Jeez that coal colony looks silly where it is, doesn't it? We need a screenie of that...
Jeez that coal colony looks silly where it is, doesn't it? We need a screenie of that...
I thought we were holding off on building a factory. Mach gave reason for not prebuilding it during his turns. *shrug*
Also, the hills should be the last thing we railroad. I would not railroad them until all of the grasslands have been railroaded and mined. Renata, please interupt the worker on the hill and have him help with the pollution. I don't want him busy for the next 7 turns just to get one more shield out of that hill.
It's trading time again. Japan lacks Steam Power, and will gives us Military Tradition for it. Russia will give us Nationalism and what gold they have available for Industrialization. Sumeria has 135 gpt available and will likely trade most, if not all, of it for Industrialization @ 3rd.
The AIs have only just picked up Nationalism, so no one will have anything beyond that. They are just too slow...
Do we want to prebuild ToE to complete when we get Scientific Method, or do we have reason enough to delay?
We should renegotiate luxury deals during our turn, not during the AI turn.dl123654 said:
Group the workers so that we can improve each tile as quickly as possible. This allows our workers to be available sooner for clearing pollution when needed. We will not lose coal anytime soon.dl123654 said:
Also, the hills should be the last thing we railroad. I would not railroad them until all of the grasslands have been railroaded and mined. Renata, please interupt the worker on the hill and have him help with the pollution. I don't want him busy for the next 7 turns just to get one more shield out of that hill.
It's trading time again. Japan lacks Steam Power, and will gives us Military Tradition for it. Russia will give us Nationalism and what gold they have available for Industrialization. Sumeria has 135 gpt available and will likely trade most, if not all, of it for Industrialization @ 3rd.
The AIs have only just picked up Nationalism, so no one will have anything beyond that. They are just too slow...
Do we want to prebuild ToE to complete when we get Scientific Method, or do we have reason enough to delay?
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
Sometimes I have found that the lux was sold to another civ if I wait. Do you get a better deal if you wait? If you are selling something it works out so you can jack up the price though.Mathias said:
If you are selling something for a good price, say rubber for 75 gpt (I had this deal in one of my OCC games), you're better off not renegotiating. The civ you are selling it to might not be able to pay as much. In any case, all negotiations are best done when you have full control. I.E. You can see if you can get a better deal with another civ, or you can sell whatever you buy.barbslinger said:
@dl: Mach investigated Novosibirsk and posted the screenshot. You can see that they will not have any culture for quite some time, so our colony is safe.
We will build ToE, but we do not necessarily need to build it asap. The research path was chosen to hopefully push the AI toward Refining and/or Steel before we have to research either of those ourselves. Unfortunately, the AI doesn't seem to be able to research fast enough. If they take as long to get Fascism/Communism as they did for Nationalism, we'll have RP and SM before we can trade away The Corporation.
A few things that I should have brought up earlier...
First, I would leave the worker railroading the hill. We'll be getting more workers soon, and we'll be done with the whole project a tiny bit sooner if we leave him where he is. But it's a fine point.
Try to get iron from the Japan/Steam deal...
Also, is there any danger of the Japanese engulfing our colony? Unfortunately there's no screenies, and I'm at work, but IIRC the colony is on the edge of Matsuyama...so will it be obliterated if Fukushima grows? My apologies if I'm remembering the situation wrong...
First, I would leave the worker railroading the hill. We'll be getting more workers soon, and we'll be done with the whole project a tiny bit sooner if we leave him where he is. But it's a fine point.
Try to get iron from the Japan/Steam deal...
Also, is there any danger of the Japanese engulfing our colony? Unfortunately there's no screenies, and I'm at work, but IIRC the colony is on the edge of Matsuyama...so will it be obliterated if Fukushima grows? My apologies if I'm remembering the situation wrong...
