[NFP] Maya First Look

[Lord Lakely]

Provided geography works in your favor.

But is the 10% yield bonus worth having that inner ring so jammed in there with minimal tiles to build on?

I don't think so. This isn't Japan. You'll want those tiles for farms. Around 8 cities should be enough for Maya, and with a 10% growth rate in those cities, they'll gain pop at an alarmingly rapid rate.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Overall I like the design, but ultimately it doesn't change the fundamental issue that Infinite City Sprawl is still a preferable strategy, so even with her Malus to far away cities they would still be worth having. Because of this the Mayans will probably be somewhat of a weak Civ, unless if they've balanced the game to make Tall more viable, or are planning a game mode which will make Tall much more viable.
It will be fun to try the Mayans out of course, and play as a builder limiting myself to only making cities within 6 tiles of the capital.

It don't take much more than change how building yields work. If for example a library is 0.5 science per population instead of 2 flat science you create a need to grow population in order to make the buildings better.

 

[sukritact]

That said, Lady Six Sky was also referred to as the Lady of Tikal, perhaps because she beat Tikal later, so they might be able to use that instead

But "Ix Mutal Ajaw" IS Lady of Tikal/Dos Pilas isn't it? "Ix" is a female prefix, "Mutal" is Tikal or Dos Pilas, and "Ajaw" is "Lord".

 

[Cerilis]

The animations at 1:05 and 1:45 in the Mayan first look video look exactly like Amanitore's.

I don't mean to be a snob but I'm honestly surprised someone couldn't notice it.

I don't agree. While they do use the staff in a similar way (Surprise!), they have a different body language.

 

[ehecatzin]

As a huge fan of Maya studies I'm not disappointed! Definitely more interesting than civ5's version.
I don't know if it's been pointed out before but the red and white featured in the Observatory graphics are representative of what we believe were common colors for building stucco in the Classical period.
While it's true that the Maya lowlands of Yucatan are very flat, the Maya highlands of Guatemala and Mexico are quite quite rugged and many Pre-Classic sites are located there. Perhaps the lack of mountain adjacency for Observatories is meant for balance rather than theme.
Wak Chanil Ahau's design is great I love the abundance of jade, especially her jade belt reminiscent of Pre-Classic carvings. Her headdress also clearly conveys maize in its design, extremely important for a Maya ruler. Her blue bracers also remind me of Lady Xoc's bracers from Yaxhilan Lintel 24, though I didn't notice any tongue scars on Lady Six Sky's civ6 model that she would most likely have had. I just wish she was holding a Double Serpent Bar or some Eccentric Flint, some real items of authority!

My only complaint is they continue to use the improper adjective "Mayan" but that has stuck around so long I bet it's not going anywhere

I really like civs that can build cities that look different to other civs, Incas, Neatherlands, Indonesia, even Maori with preserving the landscape, Mayans are going right into that category, with tall cities surreounded by a whole lot of intensive agriculture, farms and plantations everywhere. love it.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Looks like it improves with a camp, and adds food, I think?

attracts pooh bears

 

[Guandao]

I think Tamar is suspected of having a reused model as well.

Likely Tomyris. Robert the Bruce also resembles Pedro II's model.

Funny thing that she is a classical Maya but the civ got a logo reminiscent of Chichen Itza? ah well, they are trying to cover everything I guess



Yup got a lot of Amanitore from her, probably a similar situation to Seondeok when she was first annanounced...hopefully they are still polishing her up.


Nah the palace in civ6 is just a mishmash of many styles..not one in particular, which tbh I do find a bit dissapointing.


I guess that's were having extra housing from farms could help a lot with the city positioning, of course staying within aqueduct range should be a factor.

Are you taking about the palace used for the Aztecs and previously Brazil (plus Buenos Aires)? I think that one looks different from the one they used for the Maya.

 

[WillowBrook]

Okay her LUA is that cities within 6 tiles of the capital get +10% yields, and then the rest -15% yield. That's not as dramatic as it sounded from the narration. I was expecting a distant cities to be non-functional. But that means your first few cities will start stronger.

Anyone else get flashbacks of Civ III corruption and ring city placement shenanigans when they heard the description in the video? Thankfully, this design is much simpler to understand and the effect much less harsh.

Overall, nice design, looking forward to playing with a different set of rules guiding city placement, etc. Lady Six Sky looks great as well!

 

[Potworny]

Spoiler :

Amanitore reference
Lady Six Sky reference
There is just a slight difference (although the resemblance is uncanny, look at the fingers around the spear) and Amanitore's model seems to be somewhat more detailed and less stylized in my eyes. I'm not totally thrilled about reuse of assets, but hey, we are getting new content and that's the most important thing to me. Rest of the new civ seems really fun.

 

[Phil Ken Sebben]

So no Pacal the Great? What a huge disappointment. He is the most well-known and important character in what little we know of Mayan culture. Really bad decision.

 

[IvoryPavane]

Tbh, even the malus doesn’t stop Maya being quite a strong Civ even if she decided to spread like a Phoenician plague.

Napkin math (please anyone who is smarter than me, replace with actual math)

Average Civ:

Campus for 54 prouduction, average 2 adjacency

Maya:

Observatory for 27 production, average 3 adjacency

After 5 cities, the average Civ will have spent 270 hammers for 10 science p/t (adjacency only), and the Maya will have spent 135 hammers for 16 science per turn (adjacency plus 10%). (Again, the math is illustrative Haha)

There’s a reason Korea has absurdly strong science and it’s a combination of stronger adj and lower hammers, the two strongest yields. The Maya shares this, even if they go wide they can slap down campuses quicker than everyone but Korea.

Maya are most definitely weaker than Korea, but frankly I wouldn’t want another Korea lol.

Definitely a Civ that will require some thought but absolutely not a weak one.

 

[SirMediocrity]

I don't agree. While they do use the staff in a similar way (Surprise!), they have a different body language.

Well, I suppose trying to convince you would be futile. I still think they look extremely similar in some places an identical in others (specifically, the idle accept animation and the bit at the very, very end of the video)

 

[nitedemon]

You guys can all say goodbye to Venice. This is as close as Venice can be in CIV6.

 

[Zaarin]

So no Pacal the Great? What a huge disappointment. He is the most well-known and important character in what little we know of Mayan culture. Really bad decision.

I think you'll find you're alone on that one.

 

[Caprikel]

It don't take much more than change how building yields work. If for example a library is 0.5 science per population instead of 2 flat science you create a need to grow population in order to make the buildings better.

I'd really like this change, flat yields should be something that you get from district adjacencies, rather than the buildings. I'd much rather have each district have a building that adds yield per population, and then another building that adds a percentage yield bonus.

Edit: Also to add to that, each district should also have a building similar to the Coal Power plant that multiplies the district yield bonus, so that way there's much more emphasis on actually having a district with a high yield rather than just spamming out districts with mediocre adjacencies. However we would still need something to penalize spamming more cities other than just a increased cost to producing settlers which will never be a meaningful deterrent.

 

[ehecatzin]

Are you taking about the palace used for the Aztecs and previously Brazil? I think that one looks different from the one they used for the Maya.

Oh sorry I wasn't clear, no I meant the Mayan palace doesn't reflect a particular temple or palace unlike other civs that have their palace based on a real building. The Mayan and Aztec ones are simply...pyramids, that kind of look the part. which is a shame because there's a number of temples and palaces they could have used for the ingame model.

Now, the Mayan one at least looks Mayan (the coloring helps a lot), the one I can't really ever get used to is the Aztec one it just looks as generic as posible.

 

[Xefjord]

She looks pretty cool, I definitely hope those aesthetic changes occur that were suggested earlier to make her look more Mayan and the animations get a little bit more polished, but everything else about her appearance looks great!

I will say, while her design is very interesting. As a TSL only player she may be a total RIP to play. I am actually starting to wonder if maybe @SeelingCat should hardcode in a couple resources for the Mayan to use, or raise the chances of resources occuring in the Mayan starting area somehow for YnAEMP. As given the fact that she isn't going to be able to build a massive amount of cities within 6 tiles of her capital on a -true- start location. She is going to be extra screwed if she doesn't even get any adjacency bonuses. This is a Civ where we are going to need to look for a starting position carefully to make sure she can make use of her start the best she possibly can.

I overall hope we do NOT see a shift towards largely tall play, I am happy to see some civs that can pull it off better, but I largely feel like Wide should continue to be one of the more dominant systems and I -hated- Civ 5 for its overemphasis on Tall play. If they can find some way to buff Tall without debuffing wide and/or totally eclipsing it. I would be more happy.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

You guys can all say goodbye to Venice. This is as close as Venice can be in CIV6.

Mali was close, but the Maya are closer.

 

[Vahnstad]

I think you'll find you're alone on that one.

Lady Six Sky is going to be my favourite leader. Excellent choice. Thank the forum for bringing her up from time to time.

What I hope is that we see some balance changes that going tall will be viable.

 

[Cerilis]

Spoiler :

View attachment 555623

Amanitore reference
Lady Six Sky reference
There is just a slight difference (although the resemblance is uncanny, look at the fingers around the spear) and Amanitore's model seems to be somewhat more detailed and less stylized in my eyes. I'm not totally thrilled about reuse of assets, but hey, we are getting new content and that's the most important thing to me. Rest of the new civ seems really fun.

Finally some substance! ^^ That animation of Amanitore wasn't shown in her first look, and it really does seem raaaather identical.

Though I don't mind reusing too much if it's only small stuff like the "nice trade!" animation. As long as less work for animators gets us more leaders!