Maya Redesign

[Leoreth]

Recently I played a few Maya games and had to agree with the assessment that they're rather boring. The Maya are in the unique situation that they are barred from contact with other civs, cannot build most wonders and have a very rigid tech path, so there just aren't many interesting choices to make and you mainly have to click your way through.

My starting point in making them more interesting was looking at Babylon, which is in a similar situation (achieve something with very limited time and only one city). The problem is that Babylonia has more options in terms of wonders, building order and tech paths, so it's not completely comparable.

So I chose to focus on giving the Maya something to interact. Therefore, the Native Danibaan (Monte Albán) will appear shortly before their spawn to represent the Zapotec. Besides historicism and interactivity, this also has the purpose of denying the Maya early access to the stone and a second city which I found made everything very easy. In fact, I have removed the second settler on spawn, so you have to work with only Mutal.

The Maya also had a lot of internal warfare which I represent with the occasional Barbarian Holkan spawning in Mesoamerica.

Speaking of Holkans, they are now an Archer replacement and have new animations (throwing their spears similar to Skirmishers) and a 25% withdrawal chance. Additionally, they generate 5 food for the closest city on combat victory, which is meant to represent the role of constant warfare between the Maya city states and to encourage you to confront the enemy units.

So far I've left the UHV unchanged. The first and second goals are generally fine, and even though I didn't expect to be able to finish the first one with only one city, I was able to make it right on time. So currently I am looking for ideas for the third goal, which I think should be completeable by the arrival of the Europeans.

Currently I have two ideas:
- certain population and number of buildings in Mutal by X (represent urban development of the Maya)
- when the first civilization discovers the Americas, be more advanced than them

Everything mentioned so far is available in the SVN. Feedback and suggestions welcome.

 

[BenZL43]

I'm supplying a map.

Spoiler :

and a blank map of territories ever controlled by Maya

Spoiler :

 

[NKN]

- certain population and number of buildings in Mutal by X (represent urban development of the Maya)
- when the first civilization discovers the Americas, be more advanced than them

The second one is too random, but something similar could work. Maybe, be first in score in 1400?

 

[BenZL43]

From the map, I think we could add Kaminaljuyu as well (that become Guatemala city by Spain).. and I got an interesting journal here

Sorry to bring the Polynesian idea up again, but it looks like there's indirect contact between Malay (Indonesia in DoC) and Maya by the Polynesian.. I don't have any idea, but it looks interesting.

 

[BenZL43]

The second one is too random, but something similar could work. Maybe, be first in score in 1400?

That will be too hard because Maya are blessed with ability to handle only small areas. Most likely you need to control a large territories...

 

[Sanguivorant]

A little unorthodox UHV, but how about place X settlers in the Amazon rainforest by year Y? Not that it has historical basis.

 

[soul-breathing]

I have played a few turns as Maya. Some opinions:

Zapotec is too hard to Maya to capture, 2 holkans in a hill city means you need at least 4 holkans to beat them before you have catapult, and to gain UHV1, you need to capture Zapotec as soon as possible, Sailing+Maths+Calendar is nearly 1300 flasks in monarch, epic, only 54 turns you have.

I think 2 warriors in Zapotec is enough, or we may make Maya not experience the Dark Ages before 600AD(When I say "Dark Ages", I mean the era last from about 1500BC to 600AD, all techs are 50% more beakers to research, I suggest that Maya not experience it).

Make sure more advanced than the civ first get to America is impossible to gain, even in viceroy. My opinion is "Make sure enter renaissance era when discovered by an old world civ"

 

[Leoreth]

The second one is too random, but something similar could work. Maybe, be first in score in 1400?

Why is it random? The tech requirements for reaching the Americas are quite specific.

Zapotec is too hard to Maya to capture, 2 holkans in a hill city means you need at least 4 holkans to beat them before you have catapult, and to gain UHV1, you need to capture Zapotec as soon as possible, Sailing+Maths+Calendar is nearly 1300 flasks in monarch, epic, only 54 turns you have.

That's because you're supposed to discover Calendar without conquering the Zapotecs.

 

[NKN]

Why is it random? The tech requirements for reaching the Americas are quite specific.

But sometimes the conquerer civ has many other technologies as well, and sometimes not. You'd be very dependent on which civ is first, which techs they'd discovered, when they show up, etc.

 

[Leoreth]

But if they have more technologies, they must have arrived later, which means you also have more time to research.

 

[NKN]

I guess I should have been more patient before criticizing: What exactly do you mean by "more advanced"?

 

[Leoreth]

Total beaker worth of all techs discovered.

 

[NKN]

In that case you're right.

 

[citis]

How about building the temple of Kulkukan in Chichen Itza? If you manage to spawn a great engineer on time it is doable. However, in this case metal casting should be prediscovered for Mayas, or make it something cheaper (else it is luck depednet, because the 50% of GP points would scientist). Moreover make the temple to require dye, this way Mayas will face the conquerors in the dye tile between two cities. I think the third goal is ok, because you have to win the Aztecs and the conquerors, which is pretty fine. Mayan game is an isolationist game, I think nothing can be done for that.

Some goals that come in mind:
*"Build the temple of Kulkukan in Chichen Itza by 1200AD."
*Get a great general by 1650AD. (an spanish conqueror event occurs in 1520AD, if no conquerors?)
*Control four ball courts, four libraries and the temple of kulkukan by 1000AD.
*Control Mexico, Central America and Gran Columbia in 1810AD. (No islands included).
*Build the temple of kulkukan and the great canal (Let Great canal be a world wonder that requires railroad and can only be built in canal cities, like suez, oximalche, byzantium...)
*Discover astronomy by 1600AD.
*Make sure all nateive american civs survive the conqueror event.
*Control half the population of Americas and half the buildings in Americas in 1300AD.
*Build the temple of Kulkukan, the floating gardens and machu pichu in your core area by 1300AD. (simulate the mayan infrastructure)

So I propose these:
Zapotec is prebuilt with two holkans as it is now. Chichen itza is prebuilt, it has an holkan and a spear. Mayas spawn in Yax mutal.
UHV:
*Control the temple of Kulkukan in Chichen Itza by 1200AD, control half the population and half the buildings of Americas inside your core in 1400AD.
*Get a great general and discover astronomy by 1650AD.
*Control Mexico, Central America, Gran Columbia and a railroaded canal in 1810AD.

(Canal may be a railroaded city or fort or a new wonder The canal should be atlantic-pacific. Island are excluded in this goal.)

 

[NKN]

Most civs have three goals, not six.

 

[Leoreth]

Being first to discover Astronomy is an interesting alt-hist goal.

 

[strijder20]

I like the 'Half of the buildings in the Americas' goal; I don't think I've seen that suggestion before.

 

[need my speed]

Being first to discover Astronomy is an interesting alt-hist goal.

Is it alternate history, I wonder? Well, it depends on how you view 'Astronomy'. If you view it as 'sail across the ocean', then yeah, it obviously is.

It's a fitting goal none the less. But isn't it a rather hard one (if not sometimes impossible)?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know if Astronomy is doable. The UP has run out by then and Mesoamerica only has limited potential.

 

[Sanguivorant]

Wasn't discovering Astronomy part of the UHV for vanilla RFC?