MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster B

[gormdragan]

@AdrianE

It would be good if you could post a screenshot of where we stand right now. This would be very helpful for discussions.

 

[MacBaldrick]

Hope this is OK

Its a 96k JPEG.

 

[MacBaldrick]

I agree with Alweth that we must explore a site for a settler factory (ideally 4 turn). Choices are downstream of Goats (N of Azuchi) if we reveal further food bonus tiles nearby or more likely to east using wheat + grapes or cattle + grapes tiles (both sites on river for extra gold). Need to explore these areas to see if other bonuses are within a city radius.

 

[gormdragan]

This is my initial dotmap based on available recon.

Red dot

Advantages
(1) Immediate access to 2 BG, improved production rate.
(2) secondary border gets cattle(+2food) and wine(+1food). With 1 more citizen producing +2food, this is a 4 turn settler factory.
(3) Decent number of hills for long term production.
(4) River access for extra gold and no aquaduct.

Yellow dot

Advantages
(1) at least 2 BGs in borders, 1 is immediate access.
(2) good number of hills to offset production loss due to coast tiles.
(3) Hill defence, across river defence.
(4) Sea access.
(5) River access for extra gold and no aquaduct.

Disadvantages
(1) Unknown tiles, need more recon.

Green Dot

Advantages
(1) Decent spot with wheat and good mix of plains+grassland. Plains irrigated gives quick improvements for production.(irrigation takes 4 turns as opposed to mining of 6 turns)
(2) Decent number of hills to offset lose of shields from coastal tiles.

Disadvantages
(1) No river access, need aquaduct.


I would settle in this order of red, yellow and green.

 

[AdrianE]

Here is a zip. I won't bother with a screenshot. It seems some can read the file.

Anyway I like the red dot. But a temple would have to be built first to get the cattle in range. We would also need another worker.

It should be fairly easy to crank out more warriors to help with exploration.

>save<

edit:fixed link

 

[mad-bax]

I haven't been paying enough attention here.

gormdragan: you are UP.

I will be posting a comparative score chart in the first post of this thread in the next couple of days. Please be patient.

Adrian: you need a lower case "zip" extension in your link to match the uploaded file.

 

[Peanut]

"O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! He chortled in his joy."

The lost disk is found, the add-ons run, and the save loaded OK. No error messages ... yet ... so let's hope that CivIII 1.29 with add-ons up to GOTM24 will happily coexist with PTW 1.27 with all add-on's up to GOTM 25.

Otherwise ... this Peanut will need to put on his propellor-equipped beanie cap and install his pocket pen protector and do some serious re-engineering.

Hark ! What distant spluttering from across yon ocean echoes ? Is it Cracker choking on his cornflakes with mirth as he contemplates Peanut's hybrid game installation ?

Anyway, its looking ok for now.

I just hope that all you other Ferrari drivers in this SG team enjoy those sessions when this Volvo driver takes the wheel ...

 

[Peanut]

Thoughts from the Peanut ...

I agree with Gormdragan and AdrainE - Red is the best choice, followed by Y an G. A rushed temple at Red will be necessary to get the cow & grapes. Seeing as we are on emperor, the extra lux (grapes) will be handy when we want to grow towns to run up military production. Azuchi should crank out a worker or two reasonably soon if we can't buy any - the investment in boosted production will be worth it.

Settling at red, yellow & green also means a spacing of 5 & 5.5 for the first ring of cities. A bit more corrupt than a tighter fit but we should fit more into the first ring. Good for building a military.

 

[gormdragan]

We dun need to rush, remember we are religious, so temples is not a big problem.

 

[Alweth]

Well, I just got beat to a pulp in my GoTM 25 game, so I can now devote all my Civ3 time to this game.

I think I'm a pretty good contender for lowest scoring submission.

I just thought I'd inspire some confidence in you guys.

 

[gormdragan]

I am struggling to win 6-2 by cultural 100k. If only, the victory condition could be domination.

Edit - Can't download save.

 

[Peanut]

Originally posted by gormdragan
We dun need to rush, remember we are religious, so temples is not a big problem.

Um er um .. oh yes ... right ... (embarrassed silence) ... I knew that ... so only 30 shields ... it should end up being around a dozen turns or so after building a warrior or two to keep the peace. Less if we flick a worker that way seeing as getting that city up and productive will be a high priority.

... Peanut retreats into his shell to brush up on his Civ basics ...

 

[Peanut]

Gormdragan - the problem is just that the save link has "ZIP" in upper case. If using IE then Just rightclick the save link and click "copy shortcut". Go to the Address line and paste the shortcut. Overtype "ZIP" with "zip". Hit enter.

Otherwise type in "http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/MB4B-3000BC.zip" and it should work.

 

[AdrianE]

With the shortage of food in our start area, I don't think we should ever pop rush anything. We have plenty of shields. We are short of people.

It will take about 40 turns to get the red dot running as a settler factory.
15 turns to build the settler and move him
10 turns to growth (@ +2F, +2S working BG)
7 more turns after that to build a temple (faster if we mine BG)
5 turns after that for expansion
We also will need to irrigate several squares to get irrigated wines and cattle.

We could settle N,NW of the red dot to use the wheat (+3F, +4F after irrigation) immediately.

Edit: Oops I meant N,NE

 

[gormdragan]

how can you use the wheat N,NW of red dot immediately? You still need expanded borders.

There is no way we can get wheat+wine or wine+cattle without expanded borders. The only other option is to do a 5turn settler factory with just the wheat or just the cattle. It is a possibility we could look into.

In other words, we can't make a 4 turn settler factory without granary+temple. The first 25 turns in your analyses is unavoidable no matter where we pick our spot. We will definitely need to work those BGs. (That's precisely why we picked that spot for immediate BG access). IMHO, the 40 turns is unavoidable and is worth the effort.

I am also not very convinced about the shortage of food. We have at least 1 goat, 1 wheat, 1 cattle and 3 wine at close proximity. Most of our revealed tiles to the north are either plains or grassland, which is pretty decent in my opinion. While it is not the best of starts, it is far from food-poor. However, I agree we should not pop rush, at least not for the temple. Once we have wine+cattle or wine+wheat, rushing is not a big deal for that particular city.

@Peanut
Thanks for the adviceon the save.

With regards to RCP, it was not intentional. I am not a fan of RCP, I rather play by terrain.

 

[MacBaldrick]

I concur with Gormdragon that any settler factory will require an expanded city hence a temple. That will be useful to control happiness without using too much gold or tying up warriors as MPs.

NB An good alternative site is north, northeast of the red site in the bend of the river capturing the wheat immediately and grapes + bonus grassland once expansion takes place. It also has mimimal coastal squares. It will require only three roaded tiles to connect to capital.

The yellow site will be best for a coastal city for future galleys (if required) but further exporation may change that view.

 

[gormdragan]

Got it!!!

 

[gormdragan]

Preturn:
Everything looks good, except it would have been more productive to skip the mined grassland and mined the BG directly, it will not be used until pop 5.The work actions could have been used to road dyes.

In addition, it usually preferred to mine/irrigate b4 roading.

2950:
lux up to 10%.

2900:

2850:
Takeda San!! Hagimemashi te.

Trade Terra Cotta+Burial Rituals+10gp for Bronze Culture, or Terra Cotta+Burial Rituals+18gp+3gpt for The wheel. I decide to trade for The wheel so that we can reveal horses immediately.

2800:

2750:
Azuchi makes granary, starts war, swap to use irrigated plains (5spt for 2 turns).

2710:
Kuroda San!! Hagimemashi te.

Trade Terra Cotta+Burial Rituals for Bronze Culture+10gp.

Banzai!! We achieve tech parity.

2670:
Azuchi makes war, drop lux tax to 0%. Starts temple. Temple in 5, growth in 4. Need to up lux at last turn. Start roading for dyes.

2630:

2590:

2550:
Tech parity still.

Next better player.


The save

 

[mad-bax]

Alweth: You are UP

gormdragan: can you post the Firaxis score please?

Thanks.

 

[gormdragan]

@mad-bax

It's 94. If you don't mind me asking, what's the purpose?