MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster B

[mad-bax]

I am going to publish a table that the three teams can look at. In this way everyone will have at least an inkling of how well the other teams are doing.

This team is a little behind (in number of turns played) and I have been waiting for a little more data b4 putting the table up. This I'll do tonight now.

 

[Alweth]

Okay, I'll download it and play this evening. Unfortunately, this should be the evening that my Conquests expansion arrives, so I may be a little distracted.

 

[mad-bax]

You can be distracted as much as you like after you play your turns

 

[mad-bax]

I found time to have a look at the save just now.

The first thing I'd say is that obviously the capital will not be a settler factory. I would change the temple to settler. I would then get cities in the two dotted locations and get these three sites building our settlers between them. Granaries can go in all of them I s'pose but lets get at least the pink dot settled quick.

What d'ya think?

EDIT: The problem with Pink dot is that a cultural expansion is required to use the cow.

 

[gormdragan]

My thoughts on pink dot.

Because of the direction worked tiles was assigned, the advantage of tile sharing with the capital is lost. Furthermore, Pink is not adjacent to the river, which means we need to build an aquaduct. I would suggest moving the pink by 1 square to the east, hence utilizing the 4BG+1cattle+1 wine to develop into our settler factory. Since we are religious, temples come cheap and we can build it from scratch, taking advantage of the 2 immediate BGs.

Whether to build a settler or temple first is subjective, each having it's own merit. Azuchi may not be a settler factory, but it definitely can produce enough to make a settler once in a while. The temple b4 settler allows Azuchi to grow to 5 b4 a settler is made, which may be a better size.

Building a settler first however, gives us the 2nd city that we are really need and since we already have granary, dropping from 4 to 2 pop is not that big a deal. Considering that our luxury will roll through soon, switching to settler is good idea.

 

[mad-bax]

Yeah, I realise pink dot needs a duct. But if it is going to build settlers and workers for a while it's not going to get to size 7 anyway. I sited it there to provoke a discussion. Warriors can get from town to town in one turn with this layout, and I've avoided siting on a BG.

Personally I WOULD settle on the BG SE of Pink dot so a cultural expansion is not required to use the cow. At this stage of the game I'm always thinking about how to generate surplus food.

By settling on the BG we need only irrigate two tiles to get the cow wet, and then we have a 6 turn settler factory after granary. In reality of course we may have run out of room before it gets up and running. With the capital turning out a settler every ten turns we get 5 settlers in 18 turns which is acceptable, but will give us a slow military start of course.

I really don't like the temple. It adds no value to our position at all. I almost never build temples in the ancient age. I just wait for markets. I really would swap that build to settler, then prbably worker after that to improve the second city.

It wouldn't be everyones choice I know, but that's SGs for you.

 

[gormdragan]

I am just the opposite with you. I think granary is a waste of time I never build them in any of my solo games.

With regards to size 7, I was under the impression that the best settler factory should be the 7 to 5 factory.

SE of pink.
If we just have cattle in our borders, we have 2wasted food(+4,+4,+4 to fill 10 slot) every 3 turns. That is not efficient especially since we have no forest to temporarily switch to for more shields. We also wasted a BG. ICP advantage defensively is also lost since you need 2 turns to shuttle warriors.

E of Pink dot.
If we build a temple+granary, we can be at +5 per turn, therefore having no waste. This gives us a nice 4 turn settler factory. We can cycle from pop 7 to 5(8/8/10/10 shields per turn). Assuming mined BG, irrigated cattle+wine. To be optimum, we should have 3 mined BGs, irrigated cattle+wine to make 8/8/9/9 shields per turn (total 34, waste 4)

 

[AdrianE]

Will swapping the temple for a settler waste shields? If so keep the temple. An early temple is very useful for flip suppression in the warmongering phase.

We should be able to crank lots of military units out of Azuchi as well. We should be able to do warrior/warrior/settler if we cycle between size 2 and 4 or warrior/spear (or archer)/settler if we cycle between size 3 and 5 every 10 turns.

I much prefer cities on water. The orginal red dot is my preference.

 

[AdrianE]

Delete this duplicate post please

 

[gormdragan]

Switching temple to settler should be the same, temple costing 60shields(30 since we are religious) and settler is 30.

 

[mad-bax]

You don't need a duct to make a 7-5 settler factory. At size six you fill the bin and drop back to size five that turn. You never actually get to see the seven.

A temple will not help flip supression unless we jump the palace. The capital won't flip.

Just ask yourself what a temple will do for us right now, versus what a settler would.

 

[AdrianE]

I thought religious temples were 40 sheilds. Maybe I'm wrong.

One of the aspects of flips is total culture. If we have high culture (from an early temple) then we reduce the probability that captured cities flip back.

Given that we are paying 3GPT from our wheel deal can we afford to drop to pop 2 now?

Alweth will decide. We'll know tommorrow.

 

[gormdragan]

Originally posted by mad-bax
You don't need a duct to make a 7-5 settler factory. At size six you fill the bin and drop back to size five that turn. You never actually get to see the seven.

I will have to take your word on this one.

 

[mad-bax]

The loss of commerce will be a pain. We'll probably run at around -3gpt for a while. Maybe worker after settler would not be a good idea. A road on the goats would help.

gorm: try it and see.

 

[gormdragan]

I trust you, please for give my ignorance.

 

[Peanut]

I prefer the plan to settle RedDot, GreenDot and YellowDot in that order, and go for temples in each. RedDot wil be a decent settler factory as well as having good production capacity. GreenDot & YellowDot will have production potential as well as coastal cash benefits.

Another option for the first site is 1 tile W of the cow (unexplored but looks like grass ?) - this will share the goats straight away from proximity to Azuchi), immediate cow access, and BG access.

RedDot et. al. can be settled later and the two can share the cow and BG as needed.

Overlap is OK is we will exterminate all other civs well before we get to the modern age, so we won't need all that real estate in each city.

If it's not too late ... settler not temple in Azuchi as we gotta get growing ! And granary anywhere we want to pump out settlers.

 

[gormdragan]

I agree with overlapping but not at the expense of a potential settler factory.

 

[MacBaldrick]

For my (new) pennyworth I would go for the yellow site as the better settler factory prospect. We seem to have plenty of land so push out and backfill later (once the factory is churning out settlers). We also need to explore bit more around some of the potential sites, i.e. S of 'pink' site as there may be extra bonus stuff we are missing, ditto near the coast for 'red' site.

I go with settler as we need that 2nd city and can then turn out a few warriors while we grow (to explore further & for future upgrade to swords) then intersperse workers to link cities and develop tiles. You an never have too many workers.

 

[gormdragan]

Err, if i calculate correctly, yellow site will not be a 4 turn settler factory due to lack of shields.

At population 5, we can work 1 irrigated wine+1 irrigated wheat+1 mined BG+2mined grassland+1irrigated plains. This gives us 6 shields for 2 turns if we maintain +5food per turn.

At population 6, we can work the above + 1 more mined grassland. That gives us 7 shields per turn. At 6/6/7/7, we will be 4 shields short to make a 4 turn settler. My 2 cents.

 

[AdrianE]

I checked: a temple for a religous civ is 30 shields. Therefore we waste none by switching to settler. We should definately have a settler built asap.