MB4 - GOTM24 Redux [civ3] Roster B
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
gormdragan
King
Hi pple, I am back and this is a got it.
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Um er ah ... is anyone keeping track of how close we are to a domination victory ?
I can just see us ...
Whereupon teams A and PTW roll about the floor laughing themselves silly, and Cracker smiles and shakes his head in disbelief from his ring-side vantage point on his comfy computer chair in his GOTM wizards' retirement villa. Then our names will be prominently and permanently inscribed, in large print, in the Civ 3 Peanut Gallery of Extremely Foolish Civilization Succession Game Achievements.
... just curious, my fellow generals.
I can just see us ...
- carefully marshalling our invasion forces bulging with hundreds of veteran tanks, infantry and artillery, backed up by squadrons of fanatical kamikaze fighters.
- launching our meticulously planned multiply pronged attacks and capturing the first wave of Han cities needed as a springboard for the final slaughter of the Han armies.
- simultaneously mopping up the fragile remnants of our feeble Shimadzu, Chosogabe and Mori rivals.
- anxiously awaiting news of Han counter-attacks before the next and final turn where we will completely crush our doomed foes and seize the crown of Conquest Victory that is rightfully OURS!
Whereupon teams A and PTW roll about the floor laughing themselves silly, and Cracker smiles and shakes his head in disbelief from his ring-side vantage point on his comfy computer chair in his GOTM wizards' retirement villa. Then our names will be prominently and permanently inscribed, in large print, in the Civ 3 Peanut Gallery of Extremely Foolish Civilization Succession Game Achievements.
... just curious, my fellow generals.
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Peanut, don't worry too much. We are already over the population limit, but we need another 315 tiles or so for the territorial limit. We can capture up to 30 cities without too much trouble. We just need to be careful with cultural expansions.
But I take your point. We all need to keep an eye on it using mapstat, and keep ourselves a comfortable 30-50 tiles under. You can (and people do) sail closer to the wind than that, so if you feel comfortable at 3 tiles from the limit then fine.
But I take your point. We all need to keep an eye on it using mapstat, and keep ourselves a comfortable 30-50 tiles under. You can (and people do) sail closer to the wind than that, so if you feel comfortable at 3 tiles from the limit then fine.
Which comes first in the victory determination segment domination or conquest?
In other words will the following work?
1. Eliminate the minor civs
2. Reduce the Han to 1 city with 1 defender which only has 1 hitpoint
3. Plant settlers everywhere to grab all available tiles thus boosting score
4. Eliminate the last Han city
Of course this means building about 30 settlers.
In other words will the following work?
1. Eliminate the minor civs
2. Reduce the Han to 1 city with 1 defender which only has 1 hitpoint
3. Plant settlers everywhere to grab all available tiles thus boosting score
4. Eliminate the last Han city
Of course this means building about 30 settlers.
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Conquest is first. It happens immediately you kill the last civ. For domination you have to hit "next turn". Planting 150 cities on the turn you take out the last city doesn't improve your score because you don't reach the interturn where the new cities are factored in.
If we want to boost the Firaxis portion of our score, our best bet sould be to build lots of cathederals, which with Sistines will increase our number of happies, dramatically. We can also switch off science after flight and sell all our libraries and unis. Our gold will increase hugely and increase our score. We could also sail very close to the wind and stay a couple of tiles off the domination limit. But this means saving the game before each interturn and checking with mapstat that we are not above both domination limits.
FWIW I don't think it's a bad idea to build some cathederals now. The limiting factor on our finish date is geography rather than numbers of units IMO.
Strategically however I think that we should take on the Han immediately to maximise the time we have tanks when they don't. We should just take out the other civs "en passant". To that end, 2 or 3 transports loaded with tanks could go to the Korean island now and clear it. A couple of destroyers escorting would probably be a good idea.
We should not concern ourselves with the 2 or 3 tile island the Han have colonised to our north. We can just make peace with the Han a couple of turns before the end and take the city in a peace treaty that we immediately break.
If we want to boost the Firaxis portion of our score, our best bet sould be to build lots of cathederals, which with Sistines will increase our number of happies, dramatically. We can also switch off science after flight and sell all our libraries and unis. Our gold will increase hugely and increase our score. We could also sail very close to the wind and stay a couple of tiles off the domination limit. But this means saving the game before each interturn and checking with mapstat that we are not above both domination limits.
FWIW I don't think it's a bad idea to build some cathederals now. The limiting factor on our finish date is geography rather than numbers of units IMO.
Strategically however I think that we should take on the Han immediately to maximise the time we have tanks when they don't. We should just take out the other civs "en passant". To that end, 2 or 3 transports loaded with tanks could go to the Korean island now and clear it. A couple of destroyers escorting would probably be a good idea.
We should not concern ourselves with the 2 or 3 tile island the Han have colonised to our north. We can just make peace with the Han a couple of turns before the end and take the city in a peace treaty that we immediately break.
I like the Cathedrals idea. They are very cheap as we are religious and as Mad-bax says will increase our score. I should have built them in my last turns. Every population 12 city should have one. Many of the larger cities already have them as they were built when we only had a few luxuries.
We are in a tight race with the Civ A team. We'll need to do everything in our power to maximize score, if we want to beat them.
I didn't know that gold influenced the score. How does that work? I know it counts for the power rating.
With the army ashore in Korea (it includes only about 5 tanks IIRC and few CAV) Gormdragan should be able to easily take out the continental holdings of the Chogosabe and Mori.
I left 3 transport groups running. 1 group is trannsfering the Nagasaki invasion force to Korea. They are just south of Sasebo. The second is shuttling troops (mostly artillery) from Shimazu and the third is shuttling new production from the homeland. The second and third groups are located just North of Korea. It will take a few turns to finshish the transfer.
I'd want to get the bulk of the artillery transferred before going to war with the Han. They have a fairly large navy.
We are in a tight race with the Civ A team. We'll need to do everything in our power to maximize score, if we want to beat them.
I didn't know that gold influenced the score. How does that work? I know it counts for the power rating.
With the army ashore in Korea (it includes only about 5 tanks IIRC and few CAV) Gormdragan should be able to easily take out the continental holdings of the Chogosabe and Mori.
I left 3 transport groups running. 1 group is trannsfering the Nagasaki invasion force to Korea. They are just south of Sasebo. The second is shuttling troops (mostly artillery) from Shimazu and the third is shuttling new production from the homeland. The second and third groups are located just North of Korea. It will take a few turns to finshish the transfer.
I'd want to get the bulk of the artillery transferred before going to war with the Han. They have a fairly large navy.
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
I agree with Adrian. We need to boost our score and position ourselves to crush the Han asap in order to show team A just who is numero uno !
A few more cathedrals would be good for this. Seeing as we are on the home stretch, we could join our spare workers into any towns that can feed them and where the population is small enough that our luxuries will keep them happy. Remember - we now have the Shimadzu ivory & furs.
After Flight we will know all we need to know (thankfully we won't need marines), so all our cash can go into treasury or rushing cathedrals & markets.
A few more cathedrals would be good for this. Seeing as we are on the home stretch, we could join our spare workers into any towns that can feed them and where the population is small enough that our luxuries will keep them happy. Remember - we now have the Shimadzu ivory & furs.
After Flight we will know all we need to know (thankfully we won't need marines), so all our cash can go into treasury or rushing cathedrals & markets.
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When we get flight the native workers can also be joined into towns that produce the Kamikaze.
IIRC we have 140 native workers, so on top of markets and cathederals, some ducts and even a few hospitals would be a good idea.
Primarily though we need to build tanks, arty, Kamikaze and settlers. For a quick conquest we will need to attack multiple towns every turn, lets aim at say 4. It would be nice to have 40 arty, 10 tanks, 5 Kamikaze and 2 settlers per target.
Since Kamikaze will injure units in preference to buildings or population we should use the Kamikaze first to red-line the garrisons. Then we should use arty to get the city pop to size 12 and then use the tanks to take the city.
When we take a city, we should keep it, send a settler 1 tile past it towards the next target. Then we should sell all the buildings in the captured city and raze it. We found another city with the settler. If this does not allow arty within range of the next target, we should put another settler one tile beyond the new city, raze that city and build another city. In this way you can push a cultural bubble into enemy territory as far as you like as long as you have enough settlers. Our arty can then fire every turn. The workers can be joined in to the few continental towns we keep to rush settlers. We cannot airlift settlers of course.
The speed of conquest will be largely determined by how many arty rounds and Kamikaze attacks we can use every turn. We will also be capable of generating 2 or more leaders per turn. Leaders should be used for rushing tank armies IMO, although obviously we will want an infantry army for each artillery stack to sit on first.
I reckon we could probably finish this game in 20 turns once the Han war starts.
BTW. We mustn't forget to deploy some cavalry in Korea to respond to any new towns and barbs that spring up in the cultural void. Dispelling barb camps in this stage of the campaign could give us 50gpt.
This is it guys. Gird your loins!
IIRC we have 140 native workers, so on top of markets and cathederals, some ducts and even a few hospitals would be a good idea.
Primarily though we need to build tanks, arty, Kamikaze and settlers. For a quick conquest we will need to attack multiple towns every turn, lets aim at say 4. It would be nice to have 40 arty, 10 tanks, 5 Kamikaze and 2 settlers per target.
Since Kamikaze will injure units in preference to buildings or population we should use the Kamikaze first to red-line the garrisons. Then we should use arty to get the city pop to size 12 and then use the tanks to take the city.
When we take a city, we should keep it, send a settler 1 tile past it towards the next target. Then we should sell all the buildings in the captured city and raze it. We found another city with the settler. If this does not allow arty within range of the next target, we should put another settler one tile beyond the new city, raze that city and build another city. In this way you can push a cultural bubble into enemy territory as far as you like as long as you have enough settlers. Our arty can then fire every turn. The workers can be joined in to the few continental towns we keep to rush settlers. We cannot airlift settlers of course.
The speed of conquest will be largely determined by how many arty rounds and Kamikaze attacks we can use every turn. We will also be capable of generating 2 or more leaders per turn. Leaders should be used for rushing tank armies IMO, although obviously we will want an infantry army for each artillery stack to sit on first.
I reckon we could probably finish this game in 20 turns once the Han war starts.
BTW. We mustn't forget to deploy some cavalry in Korea to respond to any new towns and barbs that spring up in the cultural void. Dispelling barb camps in this stage of the campaign could give us 50gpt.
This is it guys. Gird your loins!
gormdragan
King
Thanks for the heads up guys. I got back to work today and there was a pile of work waiting for me. I apologise but I will only be able to play this weekend, i.e, tomorrow. I am sorry about the delays.
I will definitely read the article on maximising scores b4 proceeding.
Cheers, pple.
I will definitely read the article on maximising scores b4 proceeding.
Cheers, pple.
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Mad-bax mate : Don't count your chickens before they hatch - they may turn out to be emu's that then go and kick your dunny down !
Or in other words - you may have the privilege of administering the coup de grace depending on how inexpertly I carry on the war effort after Gormdragan.
Or in other words - you may have the privilege of administering the coup de grace depending on how inexpertly I carry on the war effort after Gormdragan.
MacBaldrick
Warlord
congratulations - you certainly have been having fun while I was in the land of the long white cloud. Will follow the final act with interest but will not get involved.
gormdragan
King
Preturn:
Looking at the save, I noticed the Hans has 4 sources of oil and 2 sources of rubber, which means that it will be difficult to shut out their resources. Instead, I plan to force war with Hans, hence dropping their research capacity. Hans are 2 techs from tanks, Mass production and Motorised Transportation. Instead of mopping up the other civs, I have decided to knock out the Hans b4 they get tanks, I will be burning cities as I push my way through the 2 rubber sources and settling only to get the 3 missing luxuries. I will concentrate on burning a hole in the Hans' territories. Our rep is toast so I am not going to care about breaking our treaties. Hans have a treasury of 1058g. I plan to steal Hans gold to fund our research. Up research to 90%. The sooner we get flight, the sooner we can cut our research and the sooner we can airlift our units. Previous leaders have the vision of shipping artilleries over to the Han continent (cannot be airlifted).
Let's hope I don't disappoint.
War starts in 1505AD.....
1505:
End MP with Hans.
Pentagon built in Hamamatsu.
I convinced Hans to declare war on me.
Phongyang razed.
Ise 2 founded, our 7th lux online and Han lost their 1st rubber resource.
Flight due in 5, at -58g with 281g in our treasury.
IBT:
Our inf army killed 1 cav army and countless cavs b4 dying to 2nd cav army.
Chosogabe declared war on us.
Our counterattack will wipe them out.
Crap!!! My game crashed when the port of entry was built.
Anyone can help?
The save just b4 the game crashed
Looking at the save, I noticed the Hans has 4 sources of oil and 2 sources of rubber, which means that it will be difficult to shut out their resources. Instead, I plan to force war with Hans, hence dropping their research capacity. Hans are 2 techs from tanks, Mass production and Motorised Transportation. Instead of mopping up the other civs, I have decided to knock out the Hans b4 they get tanks, I will be burning cities as I push my way through the 2 rubber sources and settling only to get the 3 missing luxuries. I will concentrate on burning a hole in the Hans' territories. Our rep is toast so I am not going to care about breaking our treaties. Hans have a treasury of 1058g. I plan to steal Hans gold to fund our research. Up research to 90%. The sooner we get flight, the sooner we can cut our research and the sooner we can airlift our units. Previous leaders have the vision of shipping artilleries over to the Han continent (cannot be airlifted).
Let's hope I don't disappoint. War starts in 1505AD.....
1505:
End MP with Hans.
Pentagon built in Hamamatsu.
I convinced Hans to declare war on me.
Phongyang razed.
Ise 2 founded, our 7th lux online and Han lost their 1st rubber resource.
Flight due in 5, at -58g with 281g in our treasury.
IBT:
Our inf army killed 1 cav army and countless cavs b4 dying to 2nd cav army.
Chosogabe declared war on us.
Our counterattack will wipe them out.
Crap!!! My game crashed when the port of entry was built.
Anyone can help?
The save just b4 the game crashed
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Shaping up nicely Gormdragan.
I tried the save and it happened to me too. It seems to be the pop-up for Port of Entry.
Here's an unauthorised workaround -
1) find the PediaIcons.txt file in the Civilization III\text folder
2) copy / paste it under a new name (eg. PediaIcons.old)
3) open the PediaIcons.txt file with Notepad / Wordpad etc.
4) Find the section with entries like #WON_SPLASH ...
5) at the end of the section (after the Battlefield Medicine entry) add these two lines :
#WON_SPLASH_79
art\wonder splash\Lighthouse.pcx
6) save & close (make sure it is saved as a text file)
7) try the game again.
If this doesn't work (although it did for me) then copy the old file back and panic until MadBax or someone comes up with a better fix.
Or try this file (save as PediaIcons.txt)
I tried the save and it happened to me too. It seems to be the pop-up for Port of Entry.
Here's an unauthorised workaround -
1) find the PediaIcons.txt file in the Civilization III\text folder
2) copy / paste it under a new name (eg. PediaIcons.old)
3) open the PediaIcons.txt file with Notepad / Wordpad etc.
4) Find the section with entries like #WON_SPLASH ...
5) at the end of the section (after the Battlefield Medicine entry) add these two lines :
#WON_SPLASH_79
art\wonder splash\Lighthouse.pcx
6) save & close (make sure it is saved as a text file)
7) try the game again.
If this doesn't work (although it did for me) then copy the old file back and panic until MadBax or someone comes up with a better fix.
Or try this file (save as PediaIcons.txt)
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- Jan 24, 2003
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Well, it's what I would have done. We need to replace the infantry army ASAP, to give the arty something to stand on.
How many arty do we have in Korea anyway?
I hope you get the game running again soon gormdragan, you're playing an important turn.
How many arty do we have in Korea anyway?
I hope you get the game running again soon gormdragan, you're playing an important turn.
gormdragan
King
1510:
We lost 1 inf army, one more inf army is on its way.
Here is a breakdown on the forces we have in Hans' territory already.
Tanks - 12
Artillery - 14 + 23 + 29 + 5 + 4 = 75 total
Inf - 7
Cav - 11
Cav Army - 1
Inf Army - 1
In transit,
Artillery - 9
Cav - 6
Inf - 5
I am truly surprised that Azuchi had not been mass-producing armies. Anyway, I swapped to army production, 1 army per 4 turns.
Research down to 80%, +38g with 156 in treasury.
We actually have a shortage of infantries. I'll see what I can do.
Sorry about the delay. It's football weekend. PATRIOTS KICKS BUTTS!!!!
We lost 1 inf army, one more inf army is on its way.
Here is a breakdown on the forces we have in Hans' territory already.
Tanks - 12
Artillery - 14 + 23 + 29 + 5 + 4 = 75 total
Inf - 7
Cav - 11
Cav Army - 1
Inf Army - 1
In transit,
Artillery - 9
Cav - 6
Inf - 5
I am truly surprised that Azuchi had not been mass-producing armies. Anyway, I swapped to army production, 1 army per 4 turns.
Research down to 80%, +38g with 156 in treasury.
We actually have a shortage of infantries. I'll see what I can do.
Sorry about the delay. It's football weekend. PATRIOTS KICKS BUTTS!!!!
Gormdragan
Prior to my turns Azuchi was a size 12 city without a hospital. I had to put major work into upgrading it to a productive city. So we couldn't afford to build armies there. It was only producing 50S to 60S before. After it is producing 107S so armies are an option. I chose to build tanks though.
There are a lot of infantries garrisoning the Shimazu lands. You could pull those out.
To pump Infantry production you could short rush. ie rush walls or worker, switch to Kensai Oda, rush, then switch to Infantry. That would be valid in cities with 60S production.
Although short rushing is legal it does seem exploitive to me. It also requires turning down research to get the $.
Also since the pentagon should be finished, you can load a 4th unit in the armies.
Prior to my turns Azuchi was a size 12 city without a hospital. I had to put major work into upgrading it to a productive city. So we couldn't afford to build armies there. It was only producing 50S to 60S before. After it is producing 107S so armies are an option. I chose to build tanks though.
There are a lot of infantries garrisoning the Shimazu lands. You could pull those out.
To pump Infantry production you could short rush. ie rush walls or worker, switch to Kensai Oda, rush, then switch to Infantry. That would be valid in cities with 60S production.
Although short rushing is legal it does seem exploitive to me. It also requires turning down research to get the $.
Also since the pentagon should be finished, you can load a 4th unit in the armies.
Peanut
A Slightly Nutty Flavour
Some unsolicited advice from Peanut's strategy department ...
We may find that we get a reasonable trickle of leaders especially if we manage our elites carefully. With artillery redlining the Han attackers, tanks are great for this. They get two attacks per turn and if the first attack doesn't promote the second will. So we should get lots of elite tanks and lots of winnable elite battles. So we may not need as many armies built from scratch.
Also some airport prebuilds just before flight may be handy.
Also we may be better off just building tanks and no infantry. Tanks have almost as good a defence (8 vs 10 for infantry), they are more than a match for the best attackers the Han have, and at the rate we are going the Han will probably never get tanks of their own. They attack much better (16 vs. 6), are more mobile, they can retreat and (as described above) have a better chance of becoming elite. And they are more fun for only 10 shields more (100 vs. 90).
Also now we have Incense on line (great work Gormdragan) and Gems in sight to the SW, we should probably add our surplus workers into any cities that can feed them and keep them happy so that our score goes up. We may need to rush aquaducts / markets in a few towns once the cash flow improves after getting Flight and we sack all the scientists.
After all, we want to overtake those A-team folk, don't we ?
We may find that we get a reasonable trickle of leaders especially if we manage our elites carefully. With artillery redlining the Han attackers, tanks are great for this. They get two attacks per turn and if the first attack doesn't promote the second will. So we should get lots of elite tanks and lots of winnable elite battles. So we may not need as many armies built from scratch.
Also some airport prebuilds just before flight may be handy.
Also we may be better off just building tanks and no infantry. Tanks have almost as good a defence (8 vs 10 for infantry), they are more than a match for the best attackers the Han have, and at the rate we are going the Han will probably never get tanks of their own. They attack much better (16 vs. 6), are more mobile, they can retreat and (as described above) have a better chance of becoming elite. And they are more fun for only 10 shields more (100 vs. 90).
Also now we have Incense on line (great work Gormdragan) and Gems in sight to the SW, we should probably add our surplus workers into any cities that can feed them and keep them happy so that our score goes up. We may need to rush aquaducts / markets in a few towns once the cash flow improves after getting Flight and we sack all the scientists.
After all, we want to overtake those A-team folk, don't we ?
gormdragan
King
1510:
We spawn a leader, making other inf army.
Our tank destroyed a Hans cav army.
Our cav army destroyed a Hans miltia army.
Crap....a miscued click left an exposed transport....keeping my fingers crossed.
IBT:
Our new Inf army survives inter-turn assaults from both Chosogabe+Hans.
1515:
We spawn a leader, making another army.
We spawn another leader, wow!!!! another army.
1520:
Defence of New Ise 2 is holding, waiting for our tank jugganuat(30 tanks) to land.
IBT:
Defence is holding again. AH!!!!!!!!!! My game crashes again.
Can someone (e.g. Peanut) help me again? BTW, I would appreciate if you could explain to me the solution.
"Give a man a fish, he eats a day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for life."
The problem
We spawn a leader, making other inf army.
Our tank destroyed a Hans cav army.
Our cav army destroyed a Hans miltia army.
Crap....a miscued click left an exposed transport....keeping my fingers crossed.
IBT:
Our new Inf army survives inter-turn assaults from both Chosogabe+Hans.
1515:
We spawn a leader, making another army.
We spawn another leader, wow!!!! another army.
1520:
Defence of New Ise 2 is holding, waiting for our tank jugganuat(30 tanks) to land.
IBT:
Defence is holding again. AH!!!!!!!!!! My game crashes again.
Can someone (e.g. Peanut) help me again? BTW, I would appreciate if you could explain to me the solution.
"Give a man a fish, he eats a day.
Teach a man to fish and he eats for life."
The problem
