geminisama
Resident Batman
I just won my first game as the Portuguese. Only the Russians gave me issues. 
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- Thread starter embryodead
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Yoda Power
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Pointless? Oh, that.Well I often try to be as historically acurate as possible (even avoiding conquering a civ if I don't have to to win the game). The Holy Land resource though gives me the ability to build templar knights once I've got the wonder. I can't figure out how you guys made it impossible to build hospitaller knights without the wonder even when I've got the resource.
Good idea though however you did it. I almost built the hospitaller wonder but got beat by the pope.
Thats now a total of 500 shields I've completely lost when trying to build wonders.
Each christian civ can only build one of the three holy knights, the muslims can't build any of course. It goes somewhat like this: North Europe gets Templars, South Europe gets Hospitallers and Germany gets Teutonic Knights.
It's easy to only make it not buildable by some civs, you just doesn't assign it in the editor.
I think St Exupère answered your other questions.
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
Ok that would make sense. Given the restrictions of the editor I didn't see how in the world you could tie the ability to make the unit with a wonder (other than spawning of course).
im playing germany right now, so i should be able to build templars and teutonic knights. if i control the "holy land"
civilopedia say something like: ... the holy land is a unique ressource, it appears only in one location ...
in italy, south of florence there is a "second" holy land, is this one fake or why cant i build these units? [im in control of italy]
civilopedia say something like: ... the holy land is a unique ressource, it appears only in one location ...
in italy, south of florence there is a "second" holy land, is this one fake or why cant i build these units? [im in control of italy]
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
I'd have to check first but I believe that's a victory point location.
And if you'd been following the last couple posts you'd know that Germany can't build Templars or Hospitallers (unless they have the wonders in which case they're auto produced) they can only build Teutonic knights.
And if you'd been following the last couple posts you'd know that Germany can't build Templars or Hospitallers (unless they have the wonders in which case they're auto produced) they can only build Teutonic knights.
i know that Yoda Power wrote "Each christian civ can only build one of the three holy knights"
but the pedia says:
templars can be build by christian kingdoms which are in control of the holly land.
and not:
templars can be build by christian kingdoms beside germany which are in control of the holly land.
and i normaly go with the pedia, which is in this mod just GREAT
I'd have to check first but I believe that's a victory point location.
=? i dont know what they look like [have unchecked vp victory], but this cross just exist two times on the whole map. so i dont think it is a vpl
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7792/45zp2.gif
embryodead
Caliph
@oldboy
It's a Victory Point Location (there are 3 on the map, in the historical locations of Rome, Constantinople and Jerusalem). The only Holy Land (=Israel) resource is only in Jerusalem. You can easily see how the resource looks like by clicking on it in the civilopedia btw (and it's visible on your screenshot too, just not clearly since a Border Fort/Garrison is on the same square).
Also you can't build both Templars and Teutonic Knights, since the latter are "Unique Unit" that replaces Templars. If you don't control the Holy Land, you can still get Teutonic Knights from the Teutonic Order small wonder.
It's a Victory Point Location (there are 3 on the map, in the historical locations of Rome, Constantinople and Jerusalem). The only Holy Land (=Israel) resource is only in Jerusalem. You can easily see how the resource looks like by clicking on it in the civilopedia btw (and it's visible on your screenshot too, just not clearly since a Border Fort/Garrison is on the same square).
Also you can't build both Templars and Teutonic Knights, since the latter are "Unique Unit" that replaces Templars. If you don't control the Holy Land, you can still get Teutonic Knights from the Teutonic Order small wonder.
embryodead
Caliph
Thanks for the write-ups, againsttheflow & St Exupere!
What do you mean? Sanitation requires medicine which is indeed redundant but has no effect whatsoever. The intended order is Medicine -> Canals -> Sanitation, and that's what I see.
This was indeed intentional. If you remove the link to Anatolia, several gameplay issues pop up:
- Constantinople becomes a rather insignificant city
- The Muslim/Turkish vs. Byzantine conflict has no ground
- The Byzantines don't settle Anatolia at all, which is all under Turkish control since the start. Byzantines have to push into Balkans which are already too crowded, so either Serbia or Bulgaria would have to be removed (MEM 1.0 had the Bosphorus, and no Serbia).
VP is not in default settings (and it gives a leg-up to Italy/Byzantines/Fatimids). It is up to you to turn it on or off (remember this setting rolls over from previously played games/scenarios). With VP off the game should be a bit longer.
The Muslims were already toned down in many ways: the map was cut off in the East, a lot of the land was replaced by deserts, and irrigated flood plains food output was changed from 4 to 3. Not sure how to reduce their power more? I played tens of games on that map, and while the caliphates (in fact, mostly the Fatimid one) were always very powerful, they never came out as the victor. I've seen them fall many times, from seemingly top position, to being trampled by the AI Byzantines, who in one of my games captured all of the Middle East and Africa. One thing that might be fair is toning down Cairo location, I guess.
A general note: the AI situation looks different in every game. Although some civs are weak or strong by default because of their starting locations (e.g. Ireland vs. Fatimids), you'll sometimes see the same civ being #1 and another time #20.
What do you mean? Sanitation requires medicine which is indeed redundant but has no effect whatsoever. The intended order is Medicine -> Canals -> Sanitation, and that's what I see.
This was indeed intentional. If you remove the link to Anatolia, several gameplay issues pop up:
- Constantinople becomes a rather insignificant city
- The Muslim/Turkish vs. Byzantine conflict has no ground
- The Byzantines don't settle Anatolia at all, which is all under Turkish control since the start. Byzantines have to push into Balkans which are already too crowded, so either Serbia or Bulgaria would have to be removed (MEM 1.0 had the Bosphorus, and no Serbia).
VP is not in default settings (and it gives a leg-up to Italy/Byzantines/Fatimids). It is up to you to turn it on or off (remember this setting rolls over from previously played games/scenarios). With VP off the game should be a bit longer.
The Muslims were already toned down in many ways: the map was cut off in the East, a lot of the land was replaced by deserts, and irrigated flood plains food output was changed from 4 to 3. Not sure how to reduce their power more? I played tens of games on that map, and while the caliphates (in fact, mostly the Fatimid one) were always very powerful, they never came out as the victor. I've seen them fall many times, from seemingly top position, to being trampled by the AI Byzantines, who in one of my games captured all of the Middle East and Africa. One thing that might be fair is toning down Cairo location, I guess.
A general note: the AI situation looks different in every game. Although some civs are weak or strong by default because of their starting locations (e.g. Ireland vs. Fatimids), you'll sometimes see the same civ being #1 and another time #20.
i have right now kinda finished my first game.
played as germany until turn 271/500. it was a lot of fun and the athmossphere was great.
this mod is marvellous.
does the ai likes to battle royal? two or maybe 3 times there was everyone against everyone, even kingdoms with just 1-3 citys declared war on others via military alliance.
@embryodead
thanks for clearing up the templar issue for me
played as germany until turn 271/500. it was a lot of fun and the athmossphere was great.
this mod is marvellous.
does the ai likes to battle royal? two or maybe 3 times there was everyone against everyone, even kingdoms with just 1-3 citys declared war on others via military alliance.
@embryodead
thanks for clearing up the templar issue for me
againsttheflow
unpolitically uncorrect
Dogpiles are an AI favorite once military alliances are possible.
Gen. Rommel
Wüstenfuchs
I found a small tid bit that was kind of bothering me on the tech tree. I mean, thus far, the tech tree has been great, in fact one of the best! But when I looked at the "Milling" technology, I noticed that it makes the slave trade improvement obsolete. On first glance, this doesn't necassarily pose any problem, and it actually took me a while to notice it...
But, seeing as the slave trade increases shield production +25% in the city that owns it, is it not superfluous to make it obsolete through an imrovement that has the EXACT same effects on shield production, but for a higher price (to build a mill, a city must have access to wheat and obviously the according "Milling" tech, whereas the slave market has no requirements with the exception of the tech)?
Was this intentional? I don't see the point for it, but then again, I may be overlooking something.
Maybe an increased production rate of +30-40% shield output would be a better replacement rather than keeping the rates the same.
I haven't yet praised this scenario for this aspect, but I have to say, the methods you guys used to keep each culture bound to a certain area without them settling in a completely wrong site is amazing (of course with the exception of the southern European settling of northern Africa anomoly, which might verywell be unpreventable). I just love how Germany, France, England, Cordova, basically any nation, is somehow "locked" to their historical areas, resulting in accurate nation borders. Even the cities seem to correspond to the general area of where their historic counterparts lie. Amazing feature!!! Was this even a concious goal or did it just happen on its own?
But, seeing as the slave trade increases shield production +25% in the city that owns it, is it not superfluous to make it obsolete through an imrovement that has the EXACT same effects on shield production, but for a higher price (to build a mill, a city must have access to wheat and obviously the according "Milling" tech, whereas the slave market has no requirements with the exception of the tech)?
Was this intentional? I don't see the point for it, but then again, I may be overlooking something.
Maybe an increased production rate of +30-40% shield output would be a better replacement rather than keeping the rates the same.
I haven't yet praised this scenario for this aspect, but I have to say, the methods you guys used to keep each culture bound to a certain area without them settling in a completely wrong site is amazing (of course with the exception of the southern European settling of northern Africa anomoly, which might verywell be unpreventable). I just love how Germany, France, England, Cordova, basically any nation, is somehow "locked" to their historical areas, resulting in accurate nation borders. Even the cities seem to correspond to the general area of where their historic counterparts lie. Amazing feature!!! Was this even a concious goal or did it just happen on its own?
LMR
Back In Green!
Production can only be increased in increments of 25% (so 25%, 50%, 75% etc.)
Yoda Power
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This is mainly a gameplay issue, cities would get too much production if they could build both improvements. Also afaik slavery wasn't very widespred in the high middle ages. It would be cool if we could set it to 35% instead of 25%, but as LR pointed out, that's impossible.
This is not an accident, the map and city lists were adapted to create the most realistic borders and city names.
RedwallFortress
Necromancer Emperor
geminisama
Resident Batman
What is this
Same. The mod is working great without that "patch."
embryodead
Caliph
What is this
For most people the mod works fine, including Civ3:Complete users. But from useor reports it appears there's another version of Civ3:Complete, with different folder structure/missing files. If your game started fine and didn't crash, then you don't need this patch!
Meanwhile I'm slowly working on a content patch and the accompanying 11th century Europe "snapshot". I'll post some graphics previews, e.g. Basil II leaderhead, in C&C forum in a sec.
Gen. Rommel
Wüstenfuchs
This is not an accident, the map and city lists were adapted to create the most realistic borders and city names.
Wow, that's amazing...I have no way how to adjust it so that accurate city and border placement result after the land area has been completely settled. Maybe you'd let me know per PM how to do it (I'd love to implement it for my mods as well).
Yoda Power
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You just have to notice where the AI build it's cities, and in what order they usually do it. Also with the unpassable mountains you can create some natural borders.
SurrenderMonkey
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2006
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- 3
First post ! Congratulation for this wonderful mod. I've play burgundian, fatimid and khazar at squire level (I've abandoned the game when my empires become too powerful), castillan (cultural victory with only a few civ alive at the end and a world divided between Castillan and Lithuanian superpowers) at Duke level. Byzantine (Germany kick my ass with an unstoppable combinaison of ritters, templar, hospitaller and teutonic knights... Germany can have at the second age a very powerful armed force with the threatening ritter) at King Level. I begin a new party as Lithuanian (my evil opponent in the last cold war with castillan) at King level (the start location with no gold, no quarry and no iron is tough).
Just a remark : the renaissance tech tree is a little boring because it give not many interesting city improvements (the majority of wonders and artist guild give useless (at this time) happiness bonuses) and only two new ground units. In facts the science aim to discover tech for build expedition components. It lacks an late MA or Renaissance amphibious unit (the conquest of one-case city island defended by wall, castel and swiss mercenaries is very very unpractical with the old crusaders and some surviving hospitaller (when the wonder have been build).
(and France in rose, it's a shame.... I've never seen France become only a middle empire... I've change the colour and give at Franks one bonus grassland at the start location to satisfy my chauvinism...
Just a remark : the renaissance tech tree is a little boring because it give not many interesting city improvements (the majority of wonders and artist guild give useless (at this time) happiness bonuses) and only two new ground units. In facts the science aim to discover tech for build expedition components. It lacks an late MA or Renaissance amphibious unit (the conquest of one-case city island defended by wall, castel and swiss mercenaries is very very unpractical with the old crusaders and some surviving hospitaller (when the wonder have been build).
(and France in rose, it's a shame.... I've never seen France become only a middle empire... I've change the colour and give at Franks one bonus grassland at the start location to satisfy my chauvinism...
Yoda Power
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Welcome to the forums SurrenderMonkey.
I agree that the last era isn't as entertaining, unless you're going for Expedition victory, but to be fair this was also a problem with normal civ. The main problem is that by that time, it's hard not to have made all the needed buildings available already, and some other buildings just seem pointless at that point (like science buildings, since research is soon at an end).
I'm not totally against adding a late era amphibious unit, but remember that in normal civ, the Marine isn't very good either compared to it's opponents at the time it's available, and troughout the rest of the game. I also have to check with ED of course.
Don't worry about France's color, it will probably be fixed soon.
I agree that the last era isn't as entertaining, unless you're going for Expedition victory, but to be fair this was also a problem with normal civ. The main problem is that by that time, it's hard not to have made all the needed buildings available already, and some other buildings just seem pointless at that point (like science buildings, since research is soon at an end).
I'm not totally against adding a late era amphibious unit, but remember that in normal civ, the Marine isn't very good either compared to it's opponents at the time it's available, and troughout the rest of the game. I also have to check with ED of course.
Don't worry about France's color, it will probably be fixed soon.
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