Resource icon

Medieval European Mod II 2016-10-05

Update: I'm still playing (on-and-off) the game where I'm the Byzantines. Somehow a world war began, and next thing I know, I'm at war with nearly every other civ! I easily defned myself for a long time, but I can't seem to get out of the wars. I had a really good alliance with France and Burgundy for quite a while, but they turned on me. Note: I am at war with the Berbers/Almoravids, Tatars, Muscovy, Lithuania, Scotland, Ireland, Aragon, Portugal, HRE, Bohemia and Sweden. The only alliance I have left is with Hungary, and they are annoyed with me.
I control Italy, the Balkans, much of the Black sea, most of the Middle East (cep't Persia, which is still Seljuk), all former Fatimid territories, all mediteranean islands, and the southern most Burgundian city.

I have kind of the same problem playing as Tatar. I do not have a tech lead
or much extra luxuries/resources to bribe the ai enough to leave me alone.
Or join me in an alliance

When I played as Taifa it was much easier. I was scientific so had techs
and plenty of goods to trade. There is always a sneak attack or three
so it pays to have extra techs/goods to get other civs to join you before
they join against you. If you do not do it as soon as you are attacked,
the ai civs will do it to you, no matter how illogical some of the dow's are.

It doesn't seem right but is the only way to avoid that problem.....
 
Some things I noticed: The pikeman and eastern pikeman do not require iron, is this on purpose? Mailed and heavy spearman do, as does the halberdier.

Yes, this is on purpose. This offers balance similar to the original civ3 - the 1st and 3rd era defenders don't require resources, while 2nd and 4th era ones do. It's also realistic enough, as pikes were primarily for peasants and urban militias, not armored knights.

Also, shouldn´t assasins be not able to pillage? They aren´t huge groups of soldiers or am I wrong? How is it supposed one assasin can pillage so much land in so little time? It´s annoying too when AI destroys my improvements with invincible troops and I´m european.. They are quite powerful without pillaging ability, after all they can scout enemy areas and sneak attack.

It could be explained by them assassinating local magistrates and such ;) I don't see it as a problem really, especially since we greatly reduced the presence of Assassins in the last patch.

Sewers does not remove building pollution, like said in civilopedia.

It works exactly like the pedia says - it reduces, not removes, building pollution.

Forge and smithy could grant +25% production bonus and be more expensive than stable?
How about monasteries not costing mainteinance? Weren´t they independent "communities" after all, not government supported?
Maybe lithuanian shrine should only give 1 culture per turn, they still get culture from sacrificing and that´s pretty much early on.
New buildings/units???
-Watermill, giving +25% to production? And buildable only within rivers.
-boiling tar unit? immobile, requires tar and acts like a cruise missile with range of 1? Or has nothing but defensive bombardment? This way it would be more realistic and they could be cheaper. Maybe have it require castle building or autoproduced by castle? Used when defending under siege.
New citizens?
-slave trader for almohads only, giving production and money bonus
-inquisitor, giving -corruption and maybe production?
-???
What do you think?

Forges/Smithies originally had such function, but it gave too much production combined with other buildings, and I'm generally against giving the same bonus twice (Iron already boosts production). Same with Water Mill, basically.

For balance purposes, Monasteries should really stay as they are.

Boiling tar/water will be added with a new patch (if there's a new patch, that is ;) ) I still haven't heard a really unique way to use it but the unit by GaryChildress is available and waiting to be added when enough changes stack up. I really like your idea on how to produce it though (through castle every 20-30 turns), makes a lot of sense.

We discussed custom citizens when the mod was being made. Personally, I'm not a fan of citizens with combined bonuses, it has little significance on the gameplay and produces graphical glitches. There's a way around it but I don't like it ;) Maybe one day...

Some news on terrain...
Once Ares de Borg releases the final version of his excellent terrain set and allows modification, I'll post a MEM-compatible version of it. It has to be altered obviously, since MEM uses custom terrain ruleset (e.g. Jungles->Woodlands, 3 types of Mountains, Palm Trees; also I'd replace the non-European prairie (plains) forest).
 
I started playing my game back in the summer and here is a pretty long (and long promised) run-down for anyone interested. I think this scenario is absolutely ludicrous. If I had more time I would play it all the time, alas there is work/school… I did not yet install the new patch, but I have to say that I will be THRILLED not to have to deal with assassins anymore!!

Ok, here goes:

I played as the Byzantines. Awesome start location, great resources. I raced Serbia and Bulgaria to get choice locations in (present day) Macedonia and Albania and then secured the rest of Greece. While my settlers were expanding into Greece with minimal protection, I invaded the Turks in Anatolia, making sure that history, as it ran in the real world, stopped right there. The Turks had some bad luck, their settlers were killed by barbs, so I had an easy time mopping them up. I also thought it was impressive how realistic the scenario was throughout, but especially in the beginning, I had to deal with Viking invasions and Muslim conquests all over the Mediterranean early on in the game. The Danes and Swedes made a run for Crete, but I managed to fight them off. They also settled in North Africa… really cool.

Abbasids were an early and constant threat. Once I secured Anatolia, Abbasids immediately decided to attack. My forces were exhausted from the campaign against the Turks, so I got Armenia, which had grown powerful without their nemesis the Turks, to help me against the Abbasids. Armenia and the Abbasids got into it and eventually the Armenians were history. I bought myself some time, but as result of the Armenian conquest, the Abbasids grew incredibly powerful with an Empire from the Persian Gulf to the North shores of the Caspian. I was so paranoid about their huge forces that I constructed a “Maginot Line” in Anatolia to protect against their attacks. I was being attacked in the Balkans and I hoped I could hold out long enough to build up my forces and eventually invade the Levant.

The first screenshot illustrates my “Maginot Line” The Abbasids are absolutely huge at this point. The Fatamids are pretty powerful as well. The Bulgars have conquered all of Italy and are preparing to make a run all the way to Bretagne. The Rus are a dominant force in the East (note the dominance of the Eastern cultures).

View attachment 162339

Since I blocked Southern Balkans, the Bulgars and Serbs concentrated on the race to the Northern shores of the Black Sea. Italians, Burgundians, Aragorn and Castile all made a run for Tunisian shores, although the Moors eventually dominated Africa and split it with the Fatamids. Eventually, the Fatamids launched an amazing invasion of Italy. Rome, the seat of Christendom, fell into Muslim hands. They burned the Vatican to the ground and killed the Pope. Pretty impressive stuff… but then Italy was very weak throughout this period and at mercy of foreign powers (again, an amazing accuracy of the Middle Ages).

In the East and North, new powers were rising. The Bulgars expanded from the Caspian Sea to the shores of Brittany. However, they expanded far too much and were mopped up by the Khazars. The Khazars really came out of nowhere, but they held a swath of land from the Caspian Sea to Northern Italy, where they divided the Italian peninsula between Jewish and Muslim forces (talk about alternate history!). Serbs and Bulgars were completely overrun by the Khazars.

In the North, the immense Rus empire gave way to a brief German aggression. The Germans were very successful against the Bohemians and the Hungarians. Once they consolidated Central Europe they invaded me through the Balkans along with the Rus. This was a serious attack that made me lose my colonies on the Northern shores of the Black Sea. However, the Rus and the Germans tried to bite more than they could chew. As their forces funneled down the Balkans into the buzz-saw that was my defense forces in Macedonia, the Poles took over entire Central and Eastern Europe from their rear. Therefore, the Poles directly benefited from my well executed defense of the southern Balkans.

Geography of the Balkans was immensely useful for my defense. The German/Rus threat (combined in the end with Lithuanian and Novgorod forces) was serious, but they had to funnel down the peninsula where I could pick them off with one well stationed city. Meanwhile, I decided to take back the Holy Land and thus avenge the Muslim destruction of Rome. I invaded the Abbasids in the Caucuses and Syria from behind my Maginot Line, while invading Jerusalem from the Sea. Here, I initially intended to leave the Abbasids alive and constrained to their Mesopotamian possessions (who wants to invade Iraq?!). However, the damn roving assassins were so absolutely annoying that I went on a rampage from the Sinai Dessert to Tunisia. In the process, I destroyed the Fatamids and Abbasids in Africa. Ironically, the Fatamids were now purely an Italian kingdom centered on Rome (!!!!).

The second screenshot is of my mid-game phase. The Bulgar snake-like Empire has been replaces by the Khazar snake-like Empire. The Poles took out the combined Rus/German empire and dominate Europe. Novgorod, Sweden, Tatars and the British Isles are basically out of contention, they do not budge from that distribution for the rest of the game.

View attachment 162340

Bothered by the Assassins of the Fatamids and Abbasids, I basically decide to take out all of North Africa. I established defenses near Tunisia and let the Moors live, I was exhausted fighting in Africa and wanted to do damage in Europe. Moors send waves of Assassins for the rest of the game, but I handle them with a well defended city strategically positioned near Tunisia. I also build forts in the Sinai so that the Assassins cannot enter Levant and from there my heartland in Anatolia.

At this point, I freak out (maybe some of you remember) that the Khazars are about to win the game on cultural points. Since they have so many synagogues in every city they had been accumulating culture points while I was destroying the Muslims. I quickly transport all my forces from the Levant and North Africa and begin an all out assault on the Khazar Empire in the Balkans, the Caucuses and Crimea at the same time. I also invade Italy and liberate Rome from the Fatamids (thus ending their last few remaining cities).

Khazar possessions in Northern Italy and the Balkans fall easy. My attack from the Caucuses, however, fails miserably and they throw me back into Georgia/Armenia. Meanwhile, Poland takes advantage of my incredibly aggressive attack on the Khazars (I basically threw everything at the Khazars) and attacks in Northern Italy and the Balkans. I lose about 3-4 cities, get beaten back in the Balkans to my original Macedonian/Albanian border and lose Venice and Milan in Italy, although I hold Rome and Florence. After an incredibly long and bitter battle, with the Levantine and Arab forces from my new possessions playing a key role, I manage to beat back the Poles and the Khazars (at this point I am also told by you guys on the forum that the Khazars cannot win on culture by just getting to 100,000 cultural points, but must also have 50% more than what I have!!! Once I find out about this I quickly make peace with the Khazars and concentrate on the Poles… I was sooooooo relieved when I learned of this).

In the battle royal against the Poles, my complete and utter dominance of the Mediterranean was key. I kept transporting waves and waves of troops from the Middle East, both to the Adriatic and the Black Sea without any problem. Ultimately, I beat back the Khazars from their homeland and neutralize the Poles. The Poles still dominate East and Central Europe, but they now no longer hold the Pannonian plains or the Carpathians. In the last throes of the game, the Sicilians and the Burgundians declare war. I take out Sicily and was going to take out France from the Burgundians, but time ran out.

View attachment 162341

So, my final thoughts… Game/scenario is absolutely ludicrously amazing. You guys rule. The details are really awesome… from the AI settlement procedure to the Viking invasions in the beginning, to how civs survive on island fortresses late in the game. Obviously I was incredibly pissed about the assassins, which is why I was one of the first to complain/suggest changes about it. However, it actually added some interesting game play in the end. I had a vicious counterinsurgency to deal with when I invaded the Muslim lands and I was faced with a choice of either packing up or going all the way (hmmmm…. sounds familiar?) Ultimately, I just massacred everyone! It would have been nice to concentrate more on Europe, but the Constantine dream of recreating the Roman Empire was largely accomplished.

View attachment 162342

One thing I noticed in my game was the “Risk-like” behavior of the different powers. Bulgaria expanded, replaced by the Khazars when they were stretched too thin. Meanwhile, the Rus, Germans and the Poles replaced each other in waves. It was almost as if each power waited to turn in their “Risk-set cards” and get reinforcements for a major attack. It was really fun to watch it happen. I was disappointed, however, that no Western European civ did anything notable. Denmark and France were a joke. Hungary and Bohemia ceased to exist quickly, although Bohemia did have a short kingdom in Central Europe. The British Isles did nothing the whole game. I mean NOTHING. Spain was a site of incredibly pitched battles, but Castile ultimately prevailed and just held, although Cordoba also maintained a foot hold on the peninsula. Novgorod, Lithuania and the Tatars were also largely low-key. Lithuania fought Portugal in a vicious battle and ultimately took some Iberian possessions (bizarre, I know), but that was that. After the initial burst of activity (until about 1350) the winners and losers were evident and the losers eventually just settled for staying alive. This was a dubious strategy since Novgorod, Lithuania and Sweden could have fought each other for dominance in the North and eventually have challenged Poland or me (futile, I know) for overall lead.

Overall, this was an absolutely amazing scenario. I honestly don’t think I will ever go back to original civ. You guys really did a great job and I look forward to playing the patched version. Not only is the scenario a lot of fun to play, it is also educational and gives you something to think about as alternative history unfolds before your eyes. I probably enjoy it for that more than anything else. This is why I enjoy immensely reading other people’s run-downs. I hope you enjoyed mine and I apologize if it was too long.

View attachment 162343

I think I am going to start a new game with Ireland… or maybe Sweden.
 
Impressive game Svetovid :D Byzantium seems to be a very popular and successful starting location, I always like to play with "the west" ,but I think I will give them a try when I get some spare time!
I was particularly impressed with the great border wall you had in your first screenshot, I guess it must have been quite painful to build all those fortresses!
 
Points taken. The thing about sewers, I meant reducing, but when checked in editor there was no reduce building pollution flag selected in sewers.
How about putting the replace buildings of this type-flag to forges and such so that you could only have +50-75% production boost all together?
And IMO the defensive bombardment for tar would be best suited, which means you can´t attack with them which may be unrealistic. Then they would be immobile and require escort, so tar alone wouldn´t save your cities from falling to enemy hands.
And those citizens, maybe belonging to certain civs only, to add some more diversity between different civs, like slave traders only for almohads and bankers (?) for italians and so on, something like that. Nothing big but adds a bit more uniqueness, I think.
 
Also, this might be very stupid idea, but just came to my mind, what do you think about universities or then just some wonders like sorbonne or academy, producing scientific leaders, let´s say every 100. turn? Could be overpowered though..
 
Also, this might be very stupid idea, but just came to my mind, what do you think about universities or then just some wonders like sorbonne or academy, producing scientific leaders, let´s say every 100. turn? Could be overpowered though..

It would be a great idea, but I think scientific leaders can't be produced by a wonder/improvement.
 
i played one time with Rus, and have an time that i have to conquer Constantinople to my ships go to Mediterranean, so, i think that could have an square of water in there, so, i can make an treat of passage and can not have an war against the Byzantines
 
It would be a great idea, but I think scientific leaders can't be produced by a wonder/improvement.
Yep, only military leaders can be auto produced by wonders.
i played one time with Rus, and have an time that i have to conquer Constantinople to my ships go to Mediterranean, so, i think that could have an square of water in there, so, i can make an treat of passage and can not have an war against the Byzantines
That would seriously damage the strategic importance of Constantinople and the Byzantines in the game. A lot of fun comes out of fighting for that key position, both from a sea and land perspective.
 
The Geogian Reconquista Wondersplash is missig... :(

As the title says, that one scenario was a beta version. I just fixed this error (I hope) so you can re-download it (only the 11c Europe map/scenario, the rest is fine).

I also noticed that the 11c Europe map has twice as much downloads as MEM 1.1 patch... which is required for it to work :( You people should really download the 1.1 patch, it's only 15 MB and none of the scenarios will work without it...
 
I was particularly impressed with the great border wall you had in your first screenshot, I guess it must have been quite painful to build all those fortresses!

YES! It was extremely painful! But I didn't know what else to do. At the start, the Abbasids were a LOT more powerful than me, so I was just freaked, especially since at the same time the Western kingdoms began attacking me in the Balkans. After that, it just became a very useful way to deny assassins entry into my territory. Of course today, the forts are a great tourist attraction. He he he he...
 
That would seriously damage the strategic importance of Constantinople and the Byzantines in the game. A lot of fun comes out of fighting for that key position, both from a sea and land perspective.

I agree that that would diminish seriously the importance of Constantinople. Remember that everyone wanted Constantinople and that it gave the Ottomans serious boost when they got it. The way it is right now is perfect.
 
YES! It was extremely painful! But I didn't know what else to do. At the start, the Abbasids were a LOT more powerful than me, so I was just freaked, especially since at the same time the Western kingdoms began attacking me in the Balkans. After that, it just became a very useful way to deny assassins entry into my territory. Of course today, the forts are a great tourist attraction. He he he he...


The only problem is the enemy can just take a stroll between them in some parts. Its not a total blockade, but maybe thats not what you were aiming for so its all good :)
 
The only problem is the enemy can just take a stroll between them in some parts. Its not a total blockade, but maybe thats not what you were aiming for so its all good :)

Yes there were some gaps, but still it was almost a total barrier in hills and mountains! If I ever had patience enough to build something like that I would be much more at ease with that border, it would take quite something to break through (and I think the AI would probably attack the fortified units instead of try to get through without fighting)
 
Or you could make a trap, leave an opening in the barrier and make a corridor between two strong lines of your units leading to the a city of your choice. Now leave the city defenseless and the bastard should go straight for it.. all the while being slaughetered by your units.. The units have to be fast so they don`t clogg the internet tubes corridor..

---> ====== x
 
It has been some time since I played that game, but I think the moats helped force enemy units attack my fortresses. And yes, I stationed a Knight unit in teach fortress exactly for the reason of mopping up anyone who squeezed through.
 
Hey Guys, absolutely great mod! Indeed my first post here on the forum is praise for you.

Just one thing though, it might have been addressed b4 but didn't feel like leafing through fifty pages...somehow I don't see any dates, just Nov. for each turn. Same in the city screen: "Founded in Nov." Any ideas how I can change that? :confused:
 
The same thing happened to me when I put the MEM scenario onto a CD and put it on my dial up computer.

Not sure what it is but it happens with quite a few mods/scenarios when ive moved them.:confused:
 
Back
Top Bottom