Medieval European Mod II 2016-10-05

[Russ Haynes]

You can use the forum gallery to upload screenshots. There's an upload form at the bottom of the page:
http://www.civfanatics.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=7

Thanks for the awesome write-up, it's nice to read someone is having fun

Thanks for the info. I guess one of the things I'm not familiar with is how to capture the image in the first place. I have read about using the "Print Screen" button to do this. Could someone explain the steps they use to capture the screen image this way? Please forgive my ignorance!!

Thanks!

Russ

 

[againsttheflow]

You can either Print Screen -> open MS Paint -> hit Ctrl + V -> Save

or you can try a free screen capture software like Gadwin to make the process easier (if you change a setting or two it will take screenshots and save any time you hit PrintScreen without any more steps).

 

[Russ Haynes]

Cool write-up Russ Haynes.

One of the things I have been thinking in the MEM game I've been playing recently is that HRE is slightly overpowered (no detraction to Russ' gameplay intended!) but I'll go into a little more detail when I post notes on the game.

I haven't played any other factions yet, and although I am in a good position now, I would say it seems to be a challenge to balance the different fronts you are faced with starting in the middle (the whole two or three front war situation). Taking out France first seemed like it helped a lot in this regard, as was pushing my southern border up to the Alps quickly. Playing as the Germans I would think you could very easily get overextended and have difficulty consolidating any gains you make.

Propping up smaller (5-10 cities) nations with technology and resource trades seems to help maintain the balance of power somewhat. If I had been keeping my treaties like I should have I think I would probably be in an even better position now. BTW does having or not having embassies affect how other nations feel toward you?

If the AI used amphibious warfare better I would think that such a long coastline could really be a pain in the long run. Now I have the German, Italian, French, Danish and part of the Spanish (Med and Atlantic) coastline to be concerned with. I think I have only seen one unit try to raid one of my cities in France during the game. They seem to have a lot of ships sailing around but not very strong invasion forces. I may just be worrying about something that is a small threat instead of one that a human opponent would try to take advantage of. I have maintained fairly strong garrisons along the coasts (at least 4-6 defensive foot types per city). Is the AI more aggressive in sea operations at the upper levels of difficulty?

Thanks again for all the hard work that has been put into this mod!!!

Russ

 

[Russ Haynes]

You can either Print Screen -> open MS Paint -> hit Ctrl + V -> Save

or you can try a free screen capture software like Gadwin to make the process easier (if you change a setting or two it will take screenshots and save any time you hit PrintScreen without any more steps).

Thanks I will try that at home tonight.

Russ

 

[Yoda Power]

@ Russ - I'm glad you're enjoying the mod.

Good read.

 

[Russ Haynes]

Well, on the Euro map it has a very good starting location which is intended, since we wanted realistic expansion. Other than that the Ritter is one of the best UUs I guess. The new patch balances some things, like makes some civs more foot and less cavalry based etc. but Germany wasn't touched yet.

How hard would it be to give civs the ability to buy/sell mercenaries (instead of workers) with each other? Maybe some generic heavy/light cavalry, horse archers, offensive/defensive foot units. Using UUs would be great, and would enable countires to help allies more directly or be able to sell off extra troops instead of disbanding them. This would also allow civs to use some very different troop types such as Normans in Byzantine service, or a mix of Muslim and Christian type units in Iberian/Sicilian armies, horse archers/turcopoles in Byzantine, Crusading and Rus armies, etc.

I must confess ignorance of how most of the mod changes work so please disregard if this is a silly suggestion. The mod is wonderful as it is, and any changes/corrections in the future, however small, will be icing on the cake.

Russ

 

[againsttheflow]

I haven't played any other factions yet, and although I am in a good position now, I would say it seems to be a challenge to balance the different fronts you are faced with starting in the middle (the whole two or three front war situation). Taking out France first seemed like it helped a lot in this regard, as was pushing my southern border up to the Alps quickly. Playing as the Germans I would think you could very easily get overextended and have difficulty consolidating any gains you make.

It has seemed to me that almost every country on mainland Europe has these issues to some degree or another (take Burgundy and Hungary especially). It balances out pretty well though with, say, England and the island nations because of communications and tech trade. I think the main difficulty is that HRE was big but suffered from unity issues internally that made it not as powerful as it could otherwise have been.

BTW does having or not having embassies affect how other nations feel toward you?

Yes, it improves relations though only marginally.

If the AI used amphibious warfare better I would think that such a long coastline could really be a pain in the long run... I may just be worrying about something that is a small threat instead of one that a human opponent would try to take advantage of.

I think if there were one thing I would change about civ (other than having a better AI) would be to have it possible to play multiplayer games with 31 civs, even if only 8 humans were allowed and the rest were computer... it would make you actually have to think about these strategies/how to counter them while not removing most of the civs that make the game so fun.

Is the AI more aggressive in sea operations at the upper levels of difficulty?

No, unfortunately the AI's "intelligence" is the same on all levels. They simply have other (dis)advantages depending on the level. The editor will show what these are.

Thanks again for all the hard work that has been put into this mod!!!

I'll ditto that!

 

[embryodead]

How hard would it be to give civs the ability to buy/sell mercenaries (instead of workers) with each other? Maybe some generic heavy/light cavalry, horse archers, offensive/defensive foot units. Using UUs would be great, and would enable countires to help allies more directly or be able to sell off extra troops instead of disbanding them. This would also allow civs to use some very different troop types such as Normans in Byzantine service, or a mix of Muslim and Christian type units in Iberian/Sicilian armies, horse archers/turcopoles in Byzantine, Crusading and Rus armies, etc.

You overestimate Civ3 engine Some mods use the worker spot for mercenaries, but unfortunately it's only one slot - so you can only trade one unit. It can then upgrade to different units but in that case it doesn't differ from buying/selling the "Gold" resource - you can only get what is in your own tech tree.

What you described (e.g. horse archer mercenaries) is in the mod at the moment, but within the current mercenary system (special units available with the rare "Gold" resource), and with rather poor variety. Thanks to Sandris' unit packs there will be more mercenaries in 1.3 e.g. Muslim archers (Sicily), Andalusian infantry (Iberian civs), Afghan javelinmen (Abbasids), Viking mercenaries (Rus & Novgorod), Welsh Longbowmen (Ireland & Scotland) etc.

 

[Russ Haynes]

You overestimate Civ3 engine Some mods use the worker spot for mercenaries, but unfortunately it's only one slot - so you can only trade one unit. It can then upgrade to different units but in that case it doesn't differ from buying/selling the "Gold" resource - you can only get what is in your own tech tree.

What you described (e.g. horse archer mercenaries) is in the mod at the moment, but within the current mercenary system (special units available with the rare "Gold" resource), and with rather poor variety. Thanks to Sandris' unit packs there will be more mercenaries in 1.3 e.g. Muslim archers (Sicily), Andalusian infantry (Iberian civs), Afghan javelinmen (Abbasids), Viking mercenaries (Rus & Novgorod), Welsh Longbowmen (Ireland & Scotland) etc.

That sounds great! When do you estimate 1.3 being available (here I just started playing and already I wait an upgrade)? What types of things do you want to change? Reading through this thread from start to finish and it sounded as though 1.2 would be about it.

Thanks for the response. I figured I was probably wishing too big, but hey, you never know.

Russ

 

[Russ Haynes]

Year: 1363

General Situation: The German Empire (I don't think of it as the HRE because I didn't quite manage to build that wonder first and I haven't captured it yet) includes: Old Germany, Denmark, France, Burgundy, Venetia, Italy, and parts of England, Castile, mainland Aragon, Sicily and Hungary. There has been peace for around 20 years and the vast majority of the German people are fat and happy. The Empire is the leading power in the known world (or at least the part that really matters to them; Lithuania is pretty strong with 26 cities). The economy is strong and scientists are leaders in their field. The Grand Army of England is preparing for the invasion of Scotland. Times are good and most people only expect great things to continue.

Armed Forces Order of Battle:
Knights (including Religious Orders): 99
Crusaders: 25
Men-at-Arms: 31
Crossbowmen: 5
Varangian Guardsmen: 4
Pikemen: 205
Mailed Spearmen: 30
Trebuchets: 64
Total Army Units: 463

Cogs: 11
War Kogs: 23
Vitalian Privateers: 2
Total Naval Units: 36

Grand Army of England (on the Scots/Cornish border):
Elite Ritters: 8
Veteran Ritters: 4
Elite Teutonic Knights: 2
Elite Templer Knights: 7
Veteran Hospitilers: 2
Veteran Crusaders: 10
Elite Men-at-Arms: 1
Veteran Men-at-Arms: 18
Veteran Pikemen: 15
Trebuchets: 23
Total Units: 90

London/Hereford (my 2 English cities) Garrisions:
Trained Pikemen: 9/6
Veteran Crusaders: 5/2
Trained Ritters: 2/0
Trained Teutonic Knights: 0/2
Trained Hospitilers: 1/0
Veteran MAA: 2/0
Trained MAA: 1/0
Total Garrison Units: 30

The Grand Army of England obviously contains the cream of my armed forces. It has almost 20% of my army strength (and almost, if not all my elite knights) and combined with the English garrisons this rises to 25% of army strength. I have recently finished Barracks in almost every Imperial city, so now I am able to upgrade units more easily and produce veteran troops instead of just trained greenhorns. I built the Arsenal wonder so upgrading everything is now half price, too (I waited until this was finished to upgrade most of my spearmen).

Fairly large numbers of good troops (trained and veteran Knights, Pikemen, Crusaders and Trebuchets) are stationed in Spain, Italy, Hungary, Prussia and Denmark.

Investigations of the Scottish cities reveal fairly strong garrison numbers (6-8 armored spearmen per size-12 city in the north; 3-4 in the smaller southern cities taken from the English), so I will probably need some follow-on reinforcements (and scrapings from other backwater garrisons) to be produced on the continent to complete the conquest and garrisoning of the British Isles.

After the conquest of Scotland and Ireland I have been thinking about an invasion of Sweden and then finishing up in Spain at some point. The conquest of Sweden would allow me to put pressure on Lithuania in the north(we are still seperated from them by what is left of Poland).

Serbia is growing in strength (18 cities and she has been biting into Turkish lands to the east). The Abbasids have 14 cities, Khazaria 14, the Rus 12, and the Turks 10. My old friend Armenia has 7, but he has been holding on with tech help from me. Poland has 11 left but only 4-5 just east of Germany (I will probably take some or all of these at some point). The rest are cut off by Lithuania to the north. The other Muslim nations are weaker then the Abbasids, so I'm not too concerned about them.

Well that's it for now. I will have more this weekend I'm sure (and hopefully some screenies; I just don't seem to be able to get to that part when I am at home playing )

Russ

 

[Quinzy]

The Irish should get Gallowglasses rather than Welsh longbowmen, if that's not too difficult to implement?

 

[embryodead]

The Irish should get Gallowglasses rather than Welsh longbowmen, if that's not too difficult to implement?

The Irish already got Gallowglasses, since 1.0 version of the mod Welsh longbowmen just replaced Swiss pikemen.

Regarding the update, I just want it to be the final one so I'll wait for a new unit pack or two

 

[Russ Haynes]

Year: 1401

My Grand Army of England has now completed the conquest of Scotland. In the 1370s I began a war against Cordova and have now ousted them from Spain. Castile (they still had three cities left from our earlier war) has also been ejected from the Iberian Peninsula. Portugal is all that's left (3 cities on mainland and 1 island city in the Mediterranean). The conquest of the City of Palermo on Sicily has also been accomplished.

I got into a conflict with Serbia when they attacked me and I took one of their cities on the Adriatic Coast. I have also resettled a razed Hungarian city on me southeastern border. The land it was on was in a little pocket of unclaimed land after it was razed. I have begun to redeploy the Grand Army of England to eastern Germany for a long planned for war against Poland. I will deal with Ireland later.

The German Empire has now crossed the critical mass point in the game where although I haven't reached the cultural or victory point totals to end the game, my civ is the tech leader and its closest rival is about 1/3 the size and population (Lithuania). I can do about anything I want at this point so boredom is setting in a little.

The only thing slowing me down is an army of almost 700 units that I am spending almost 1000 gpt on. At this rate I will keep my tech lead, but there will be a lot of techs I don't get to as a result. (I am almost to the end of the third tech tree and my research is taking 15-20 turns each). I need to find a way to use my army offensively for a little while longer and then settle down to peace (and a corresponding reduction in the armed forces) while maintaining some regional reserve forces able to respond to any outside threat. I have also thought about organizing a relief column for the remaining Armenian cities in the east and perhaps a crusade to the Holy Land.

I decided to start something different: Armenia. Not nearly as easy as Germany. Mediocre land values and powerful neighbors don't make growing a civ easy to say the least. Settlers are slow to come by for large sustained early expansion and slow production put me in a hole in science pretty quick. I may keep trying this one, but it will probably be a real grind, so I may try something else (or start this one again). I may try Armenia on a random map.

 

[embryodead]

Personally I play on King level or higher, and civs with harder starting locations. Armenian situation is indeed a tough one. Staying behind in techs is pretty much guaranteed but I find it more fun to struggle with my neighbors than conquering 1/3 of the map - as you said, it gets boring when you see you've already won.

 

[Russ Haynes]

Personally I play on King level or higher, and civs with harder starting locations. Armenian situation is indeed a tough one. Staying behind in techs is pretty much guaranteed but I find it more fun to struggle with my neighbors than conquering 1/3 of the map - as you said, it gets boring when you see you've already won.

I decided to go up to Duke level and try Novograd. Is this the level where things are supposed to be on an even playing level with the AI (production rates, etc)? Or is that the next one up (King?)? Playing as Commercial/Expanisonist is something different for me (when trying a harder level I usually go with religious or scientific to ease things somewhat), so I will have to adjust my thinking a little.

I am supposing that my best bet is to expand as quickly as possibly through settlement and then build workers to max out my cities' radii with improvments and work toward the commercial advances (marketplace, bank, etc) that other civs may neglect a little. I will probably need to grab whatever resources and luxuries I can while settling (to obtain money and techs through trade) so using my warriors and scout in exploration should be essential. I am hoping that trading will help avoid military conflicts with my neighbors so I have an opportunity to build up my infrastructure.

We'll see. Updates will follow.

BTW does setting science to zero and buying and selling techs work the same in Conquests/Complete as it did in Vanilla? So far (since I picked up Complete over the holidays) it seems much harder to do this. It also seems that the AI wants to charge a LOT more for techs/luxuries then they are willing to pay, even when they can afford it (1000s of gold saved).

 

[embryodead]

I decided to go up to Duke level and try Novograd. Is this the level where things are supposed to be on an even playing level with the AI (production rates, etc)?

Actually the one below is the "even" one (Squire = Regent in Conquests).

But there's more to it - e.g. at King+ both you and the AI get no free "happy faces", meaning that military units have to be present at your cities at size 2 or they'll riot. It changes the early game a lot.

BTW does setting science to zero and buying and selling techs work the same in Conquests/Complete as it did in Vanilla? So far (since I picked up Complete over the holidays) it seems much harder to do this. It also seems that the AI wants to charge a LOT more for techs/luxuries then they are willing to pay, even when they can afford it (1000s of gold saved).

I can't compare Conquests to vanilla since the last time I played vanilla was 7 years ago... I can say that I personally played this way when there was no chance for my civ to compete in tech race, so it's definitely possible. Also, you can still make insane amounts of money selling resources and/or techs to AI, in this mod as well, but you have to be absolutely sure you don't break deals. It's something that always annoyed me with Civ3 - break a deal once (trade, ROP, alliance, whatever) in Ancient Times and the AI will still bring it up in Modern Times...

Sometimes you may break deals without knowing it or even without doing anything. For instance, when you declare war on a neighbor whose roads/waters where connecting you to a civ you were trading with... you'll be held responsible for break a trade deal and your mercantile ambitions are pretty much over. Unfortunately, in my experience, when that neighbor declares war on you, you'll be also held responsible... stupid, I know.

Problem with Novgorod may be that Timber and Tar are not worth a lot until later eras. Furs are OK though, and only Sweden & Novgorod have access to it.

 

[Gradac]

Just pop in to congratulate to all the makers of this mod.

It's the best addition that Civ III made by fans only. In many ways it is far better than original Medieval Conquest made by company.

Becouse of this mod I did return to CivIII after many years.

Thank You guys!

PS: I expirience some wierd things, tho. For example - I can not see what is the curent year in play, and everything is mixed up in Victory Condition page.

Also I can not play any additional scenario (like Crusader States). They are not appear on my Scenario screen, and when I try directly it shows ERROR when downloading.

I hope, that the only reason is, becouse I couldn't instal correctly patch1.22. Acctualy I did, but on screen it still show version 1.00. So I've must be doing something wrong. I posted this problem in technical support area for CivIII, so hopefully that will be solved soon.

 

[embryodead]

I hope, that the only reason is, becouse I couldn't instal correctly patch1.22. Acctualy I did, but on screen it still show version 1.00. So I've must be doing something wrong. I posted this problem in technical support area for CivIII, so hopefully that will be solved soon.

That is exactly the reason. For the mod to work properly, your Civ3:Conquests must be patched to version 1.22. Thanks for the kind words and I hope you get this sorted out quickly

 

[Russ Haynes]

Game Update: Novograd (Duke Level)

Year: 1206

Well, I am off and running as Novograd.

Steps in development:
1) Expansion/settlement. I managed to settle 20 cities in the NE area of the map before the area become too cluttered with cities. I used the tactic of producing fairly large amounts of warriors and blockading Lithuania's and Rus's settlers from crossing my territory for as long as possible. Is this considered cheating? I know I have seen it as a strategy tip before, but is it considered bad form to do this?

France, Bohemia, Poland and others also sent settlers into the area, so I finally gave up and let them all cross. No one from the west settled in what was left (gaps between borders). However, Lithuania did manage to settle 4 cities in the extreme northern part of the area. I will TRY to culture flip them, but I will probably need to go to war with Lithuania to completely take control of this part of the map.

2) Stay at peace. I have managed this pretty well I think. The first war I have fought started about 20+ turns ago when the Tatars demanded I continue giving them Timber for free. I told them to shove it and the war was on. I solicited support for the war from the Rus and although it cost me in gold (and maybe honey or something else), they agreed. I also talked to the Lithuanians, but they wouldn't agree to anything that was reasonable in my opinion, so I dropped my request. They ended up going to war on their own with the Tatars a few turns later anyway.

The war started in 1162 (I think) and is still raging. I have managed to take 4 Tatar cities in the east and resettle one razed by the Lithuanians. My Feudal state stretches from the western coast eastward to the edge of the map and I am beginning to move south into the Tatar homeland area. The Tatars got Hungary to agree to an alliance against me, but I countered with alliances involving the Rus (our original deal had expired but the Rus had continued the war on their own) and the Khazars. I think the Lithuanians have made peace with the Tatars (I think they are fighting Poland now), so there will be more spoils for the rest of us. All my trading (and military building, too) seems to have paid off because the current alliances were made without any conditions. I plan to take a couple of more cities to consolidate my position and then I will let the Rus and Khazars mop up what's left until our deals expire.

3) City development. I have moved back toward improving my cities and away from expanding my army. Manors are mostly done and marketplaces are beginning to be completed. Most of the old core of 20 cities have temples and monasteries done. A couple have completed water supplies and others are working on it. In between improvements I am also producing new workers (I had joined many to cities that had room when the Tatars declared war since they would help with city production, and the Tatars have cavalry and I didn't want an invasion to result in my workers becoming slaves).

4) Science. I am beginning to achieve some tech parity with other nations. The leaders still are a 3-4 ahead of me, but I am beginning to get some tech for tech trade deals with others who are similar in science spending as me, so the older or less interesting (at least to my nation), unexplored techs are getting aquired that way. I think Castle Building is next and with max spending it will take about 8 turns (if I remember correctly), so not a bad level of science spending in my opinion.

5) Trade. I have done better (and micromanaged more) in this area then any other game of civ I have played. As a commercial nation on a harder level I figured I had to make this a priority or else I would wither and die. Right now I have 9 luxuries (4 of my own (salt, amber, honey and furs) and 5 traded for) and 5 resources (Horses, Iron, Timber, Tar, and Quarry) which I own. I have multiples of everything, too, which has allowed me to maintain a significant cash flow per turn and allowed me to get those other luxuries for happiness.

There are 3-4 luxuries available that I don't have and may not have for a while because the price is getting out of hand. Right now maintaining my positive cash flow is more important then making nonexistant people (in a lot of my cities the extra happiness would be wasted since my largest cities are only pop 12 and many are still at pop 6). Yes, I have some unhappy folks, but the occasional disorder can be dealt with through entertainers, or producing workers as immigrants for the eastern cities I recently took (funny how that can work in a game as well as some real life examples in history), or even sliding the entertainment spending bar to the right (I have managed to keep it at zero so far).

6) Military. Currently I have the following units under arms:
Warriors: 2
Spearmen: 51
Mailed Spearmen: 5
Axemen (Swordsmen equivalent): 2
Druzhinnik (Men-at-arms equivalent): 22
Early Knights: 17
Catapults: 2
Trebuchets: 4
Lodya (Ship): 1 out exploring the world

I have begun to upgrade my spearmen and warriors. I have one main offensive force fighting in the war right now (includes the majority of my knights and all my bombardment units) which should be enough to complete the conquest of my goal of two more Tatar cities. I cut the Tatars off from their iron source (one of the cities I took), so that should help in limiting their building of armored spears. I have the capability to build and use at least 5-6 stables/forges for veteran unit production and upgrading so this is helping, too.

Well, that's it for now. Will update again (probably tomorrow).

One last thing. I sent my scout and my lone ship out exploring. I was hoping it would help me trade world maps with the Portuguese at some point, but they have already been destroyed.

I guess part of the problem with civs thinking of you as a deal breaker also occurs when you are told to get out and you can't or don't within a certain number of turns even though they don't say anything else (and make you move automatically). I have noticed a lot of the civs keep bringing up my deal breaking with the Serbs (scout contact and ship contact) and Turks (ship contact) and this is all they could be talking about (unless I missed something).

Oh and the Abbasids are being gracious toward me (through trading I suppose). Right now, they are in 2nd place in scoring behind me and they have about 14,000 gold in the bank. I've never had a Muslim civ be gracious before so maybe I am doing something right on the trading front.

Have I said before that I am enjoying this mod? In fact I would say this is the most fun I have had with Civ 3 period.

Russ

 

[Gradac]

That is exactly the reason. For the mod to work properly, your Civ3:Conquests must be patched to version 1.22. Thanks for the kind words and I hope you get this sorted out quickly

You deserved those kind words

Last night I completed my first game. MEM (small). It took me over 16 hours (within three times). Played as a Byzantine (on Squire level) and won on points after 540 turns (but by the hair, I had 1290 and Franks 1278 points). I was really close to cultral win (had over 100k for whole empire and 18k to Constantinople). Tech reserched over a half in renesance. Competitors halfed untill the end of the game to 10 (included me). Beside Franks, Tatars were huge and Poland, Portugal and Abbasids very strong. I had to say I did not read much about rules before, so I played "on blind", learning true game procces (I find that more fun).

1.22 was succesfully instaled and MEM was running smooth, easy and clear.