Methods of Capital Punishment

[History_Buff]

I think shooting the guy, and charges his widow or children or parents or best friend for the bullet would be quite amusing.

 

[allan2]

"For me the threat of being stuck in prison, the way it is now, is enough. To people that may not have anything to lose (extreemly poor/dieing/insane) I can certainly understand taking a risk to improve your situation....."

Then there are the people who find in prisons the positions of power and despotism they crave--the "alpha males" who pimp out weaker, subservient prisoners for rape or sexual favors; the prisoners who control the flow of dope and other commerce inside; the prisoners who run OUTSIDE GANGS from inside, and can order hits on the witnesses who got them there! Prisons may not be the most pleasant places to live, but make no mistake--some of the WORST offenders end up living like KINGS relative to their fellow inmates, and have exactly the kind of power they crave.

At the very least, prisons should be like they are in many third-world countries in that they keep each prisoner isolated and segregated from one another--no opportunity WHATSOEVER to form a hierarchal social structure that often rewards the WORST of the worst with what they want--power by force.

A friend of mine recounted an interview he heard in some documentary, an interview with the warden of Louisiana's worst penetentiary. He oversaw both death row inmates and violent offenders who pled their way out of death row. He said that his death row charges were usually relatively mild-mannered, respectful, often not too bright, and certainly not the cunning type. Whereas the people who pled out to lesser sentences were often the backstabbers, the people you had to watch out for, people VERY cunning and VERY ruthless in prison life. So while I don't argue against the death penalty in THIS thread (I'm generally against it, but it's not something I'd rule out entirely necessarily), I do ask, are we sparing the wrong people?

 

[duke o' york]

Another of my favourites is to press the little button on my big leather chair in my secret hideout and the poor unfortunate just tumbles into my pit of hungry sharks. I may go to the extreme of selling tickets one day, if it wouldn't reveal whereabouts my secret headquarters was.

 

[scorch]

Originally posted by monkeyman116

3)Impersonating a Chelsea Pensioner
4)Graffitiing London Bridge

are those two jokes???



i have to say, an interesting subject.

just wondering, are you guys completly serious about your votes? (eg burning, beheading), i can understand shooting, but not burning, thats just f*cking sick and should be left at the 16th century and witches.

i voted lethal injection, i think shooting is too ugly and unhumane, or do youse think that because they did murder or whatever, they should be killed in a unhumane way?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by scorch

i have to say, an interesting subject.

just wondering, are you guys completly serious about your votes? (eg burning, beheading), i can understand shooting, but not burning, thats just f*cking sick and should be left at the 16th century and witches.

i voted lethal injection, i think shooting is too ugly and unhumane, or do youse think that because they did murder or whatever, they should be killed in a unhumane way?

Of course it is an interesting subject. Look who started it.

I cannot comment for those who voted for those esteemed choices, but burning and impaling in my view are viable and valid options for those who commit acts of utter depravity. I would have liked to have seen Gacy, Bundy, Chikatilo and Dahmer burnt, as well as Martin Bryant and selected others.
This would be somewhat of a greater deterrent in terms of horror, than the seemingly clinical process of lethal injection, and the crimes of these scum do merit an appropriate response. It is not sick, it is paying back in kind.

Shooting is "ugly and inhumane" for those who watch it. It is not as nicely clean, clinical, sanitised and depersonalized as lethal injection.
It is a direct act of violence that retain shock value.
But, a bullet to the back of the head is a heck of a lot more humane than strapping someone to a stretcher, fiddling around looking for a vein, inserting needles and a catheter, and then pumping in three separate drugs. Here is a little quote that describes the process:

"Typically the prisoner is strapped to a gurney (which is a wheeled hospital style trolley bed) or a fixed execution table rather like an operating theatre table by leather or webbing straps over the body and legs.
Their bare arms are strapped to boards projecting from the sides of the gurney. Trained technicians then insert a catheter into a vein in each arm, a process that sounds much simpler than it often is. Once the catheters are in place tubes carrying saline solution are connected to the catheter ends and the prisoner is either wheeled into the execution chamber or the curtains surrounding it are drawn back to allow the witnesses to see the procedure. When the condemned person has made any final statement the prison warden gives the signal for the execution to begin and the technician(s), hidden from view behind a two way mirror begins to manually inject the three chemicals comprising typically 15 - 50 cc of Sodium thiopental, 15 - 50 cc of Pavulon (the generic name for Pancuronium bromide) and 15 - 50 cc of Potassium chloride. There is a short interval between each chemical during which saline solution is injected to clean the IV line and prevent any chemical reaction which could block it. Typically the actual injections will take from three to five minutes to complete.

Sodium thiopental is a short acting barbiturate which causes unconsciousness quite quickly.
Pavulon is a muscle relaxant that paralyses the diaphragm and thus arrests breathing.
Potassium chloride finishes the job by causing cardiac arrest.
In most cases the prisoner is unconscious about a minute after the Sodium thiopental has been injected and is dead in around eight minutes, with no OBVIOUS (my emphasis) signs of physical suffering."

and further:

"Execution by lethal injection takes much longer from start to finish than any other method, typically fully 30 - 45 minutes depending on the execution protocol and ease or otherwise of locating a vein. For the majority of this time the condemned person is fully aware of what is happening to them and able to experience their execution. They know that they will be dead at the end of it and the fear of suffering (particularly in front of an audience) and of the unknown is strong in most of us. The prisoner may thus be subjected to far more mental anguish over a longer period.

It is fair to say that injection is much less dramatic than the electric chair or hanging and probably easier for the staff and witnesses as it looks more like a surgical procedure than an execution. But does it cause the prisoner less suffering overall?

When all goes well the only physical pain is the insertion of the catheters. If the person's veins are easy to find this can be done in a minute or so. The catheters are connected to the saline drip and the prisoner is wheeled into the execution chamber where they are in full view of the witnesses and journalists. After they have made their final statement the injection of the lethal chemicals can begin and they will feel themselves becoming drowsy and know that they are beginning to die.

In modern hanging they are alive one second and unconscious the next (if everything goes to plan). It is unlikely that they feel themselves slipping into death.

Not everyone is of the opinion that death by lethal injection is painless - Dr. Edward Brunner, chairman of the Department of Anesthesia at North-western University Medical School, submitted an affidavit on behalf of death row inmates in Illinois in which he states that lethal injection "create the substantial risk that prisoners will suffocate or suffer excruciating pain during the three chemical injections but will be prevented by the paralytic agent from communicating their distress."

In seems that in the minds of the public and of jurors in capital cases the PERCEPTION of lethal injection is of a clean, clinical and painless end."

(Taken from http://www.geocities.com/trctl11/inject.html )



They seem to die easily, but there is no way of asking them, nor of them expressing any pain, being paralysed by the chemicals used. There have been several occasions of things screwing up, as seen on the above link. Now, I have no hangup with the condemned individual experiencing pain and suffering (as long as it is in proportion to their crime), but I do slightly object to the notion that lethal injection is nice, painless and perfectly humane.
If we are talking humanity, a bullet in the brain is quicker, causing instant loss of consciousness and life. Nothing would be felt, except for the absolutely momentary sensation of impact (again, no way to ask someone about it... ). It is over quickly, without the rather sickening circus that surrounds other contemporary methods of execution.
It is cheap, compared to the expensive and perverse apparatus of death employed for other methods.
It balances the need to execute the condemned prisoner with appropriate humanity and swiftness, but also to pay appropriate attention to retribution. The organs can also be salvaged for life saving purposes, rather than the firing squad which spoils the provendor, so to speak. It does always go to plan; an experienced shooter will not miss a head sized target from a foot away.

That is why, if we are talking humanity, shooting takes the trophy.

 

[Hamlet]

Simon, I sometimes think you are a man not completely at ease with himself.

 

[Ozz]

Walk the Plank, Swim with the Sharks.
Cheap & Eco Friendly, Good TV play too.

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

Simon, I sometimes think you are a man not completely at ease with himself.

Well i guess it's better to be a Belgian Commie than an Australian nutcase. j/k

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by Hamlet
Simon, I sometimes think you are a man not completely at ease with himself.

Why is that, you silly little boy?
Because I am the voice of truth and reason?
Is it because I propose arguments that cannot be realistically faulted?

Pray expand. I love to give ear to the whinings and moanings of communist hippies.

And ducky, that is Australian fascist nutcase.
What's a Belgium anyway.

And what, pray tell, do these little snipings have to do with my esteemed topic. Sweet fanny adams, it would seem.

 

[Sixchan]

Lethal Gas is horrible. Reminds me of Holocaust. Definitely the worst one here, purely because it has connotations with the worst humanitarian crisis in history since Genghis Khan.

Don't see the problem of using Carbon Monoxide gas, though. As I have said before, provided the gass is of high enough concentration (i.e. industrial useage quantities) the victim is asleep in seconds and is dead not long after. No pain, no suffering...but that'd be no fun!

Hanging is so medieval. One snap and its over. There's also no guarantee that their neck will snap (even if the chances of their neck remaining intact are slim).

In that is where the fun lies. You can bet on it! Bet on whether he breaks his neck, and if he doesn't, bet on how long he can hold his breath. Plus, it builds character in the wee ones. Fun for all the family.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

I do concur that the cessation of public hanging has been to the detriment of public family entertainment. Ah, for the good old days...

And "fun for all the family". What a wonderful phrase, excpet I think you were more leaning towards the Manson Family above the Partridge Family...

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Because I am the voice of truth and reason?

Because you're a weird maniac obsessed with world domination and being evil, and everybody prods you with sticks and shouts 'UNCLEAN!'

And nobody can tell whether you're genuinely la-la, or just pretending, because you can get away with it. Like George Bush.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by Hamlet


Because you're a weird maniac obsessed with world domination and being evil, and everybody prods you with sticks and shouts 'UNCLEAN!'

And nobody can tell whether you're genuinely la-la, or just pretending, because you can get away with it. Like George Bush.

I haven't seen any people with sticks about. There have been those jolly little people with the masks and the bells - lepers - but none of what you describe. And I don't think they would try.

In addition, one is not weird, nor a maniac. Nor insane. I have no obsession with world domination; that is just part of the job description. Nor am I obsessed with being evil; it is simply what I am , when compared to the rest of society. And proud of it.

Your quaint little statements do cause some mirth , but should be confined to your own head or a thread dedicated to the subject, you hippy communist spy.

Now, do you have anything to say that is vaguelly related to the topic?

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
Now, do you have anything to say that is vaguelly related to the topic?

Already said it, but no bugger replied, so I took to insluting you to pass the time.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by Hamlet


Already said it, but no bugger replied, so I took to insluting you to pass the time.

Well then, can you kindly go do that in some other thread, and stop this appalling immature spam, or I will be forced to take appropriate action.

Oy vey! Is it so difficult to stick to the topic of a thread, and act like an adult human?

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
or I will be forced to take appropriate action.

Do you hold some amount of influence with the mods?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

As I said in a PM just sent: Please stop spamming my thread. This is the last time I will say it.

 

[allan2]

In Utah, I vaguely remember (from The Executioner's Song ) that there was a firing SQUAD used (i.e. not a single person), with only one loaded gun (the rest firing blank), so that none of the shooters would know who actually fired the fatal bullet and caused the condemned's death (I THINK that's how it was--I read the book over a decade ago). None of the shooters knew whether or not they carried the loaded gun. It sort of deflected the act from the personal to the collective in this way.

But all shooters aimed for the head, which had a hood over it.

I have to agree with Simon though--the shot to the head may LOOK messy, but it would be by far the quickest and surest way. If we tell ourselves we are concerned with humaneness in executions, is it ACTUAL humaneness, or something that LOOKS more humane and makes us all sleep easier? Is this concern just a charade?

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Yep, that's correct Allan. They did employ the blank method for the Gary Gilmore shooting; six volunteers, five of whom had live ammo, and the sixth a blank. You just got the ratio the other way around.
They aimed for a paper target pinned over the heart.
They used the same method with John Taylor in 1996.

It is a bit of an overcomplication; strapping to a chair, and making a perverse ceremony out of it.

"Utah’s protocol on execution by firing squad.

Executions are carried out at Point of the Mountain state penitentiary near Salt Lake City.
The firing squad is composed of six members who have volunteered for the job.
At the appropriate time, the condemned prisoner is led to the execution area or chamber. The prisoner is placed in a specially designed chair which has a pan beneath it to catch the blood and other fluids. Restraints are applied to the prisoner’s arms, legs, chest and head. A head restraint is applied loosely around the prisoner’s neck to hold his neck and head in an upright position. The prisoner is dressed in a dark blue boiler suit with a white cloth circle attached by Velcro to the area over the his heart. Behind the execution chair are sandbags to absorb the volley and prevent ricochets. Dark sheets are draped over the sandbags.
Approximately 20 feet in front of the prisoner is a partition. This has firing ports for each member of the execution team. There is a platform rest inside the partition, below the firing ports, for the shooters to steady their rifles. 30-30 calibre rifles are used with standard ammunition.
On one side of the execution area is a room for the state's witnesses. On the other side of the execution area are two witness rooms: one room for witnesses selected by the offender; one room for media witnesses.
When the prisoner is restrained, he is asked by the warden if has any last statement to make. When he has finished a black hood is placed over the his head and the warden leaves the room.
The firing squad members stand in the firing position and take aim at the white cloth circle on the prisoner’s chest. On the command to fire, they fire simultaneously. A physician and medical personnel from the Utah Department of Corrections examine the prisoner after the volley has been fired to determine death.
The estimated average length of time that elapses from the time that the prisoner is restrained to the time that death is determined is eight to ten minutes.
Individuals authorised to attend an execution by firing squad include witnesses selected by the offender, the victim’s family, government witnesses, and administrative staff (as determined by the executive director). "

Thank you for your agreement, Allan, it is good that someone finally see's what I am talking about with the two standards of humanity.
It doesn't look nice to the squeamish bleeding hearts (bad, bad pun), but it is effective and humane.