Middle-Earth: Lord of the Mods (part-hex)

[PCHighway]

Sounds good, glad you dug it up!
A steel longbow though? Perhaps it was iron-shod? If you remember I mentioned that composite bows were sometimes partially composed of bone, I can see iron in place of bone, far more expensive, obviously.
Unfinished tales is better, far more easy to navigate, and at least I know what chapter to look in. Don’t worry about the page number, I will try and find it.

So are you suggesting we use a 'marine' type of amphibious unit?


Overview

 

[SoCalian]

Yes, it should deffinatly be able to make amphibious asaults like the marine unit. It wouldn't be an iron clad bow but rather the entire bow was made of steel. PCH you said that you were relatively knowledgeable about the history of archery, peheaps you could find an example so we could see if this is possible or not. I may just have read it wrong ing it may be steel clad instead. But it was steel, of that I am certain.

*it seems so calm an peaceful in here*

Oh well I'm off to play an online battle in Medieval Total War.

 

[PCHighway]

SoCalian-
Yes, it should deffinatly be able to make amphibious asaults like the marine unit. It wouldn't be an iron clad bow but rather the entire bow was made of steel. PCH you said that you were relatively knowledgeable about the history of archery, peheaps you could find an example so we could see if this is possible or not. I may just have read it wrong ing it may be steel clad instead. But it was steel, of that I am certain.

*it seems so calm an peaceful in here*

Oh well I'm off to play an online battle in Medieval Total War.

Sure I will read it over. Knowledgeable? I suppose, if it's possible for a zealot to be knowledgeable . Well, I was thinking more 'iron-shod', i.e. Like the staffs Sam and Frodo got from Gondor, it would probably have been commonly used to make the wood sturdier among the Edain, who were rather well off.

Medieval Total War you say? That games good, never tried it online though, was never able to get Gamespy to work. I think, (and in RTW case, hope) they should have put the campaign mode into a multi-player experience, then I would have tried a lot harder to get Gamespy to work.
In any case, good luck.


Overview

 

[SoCalian]

I'm back from battle, and I lost(stupid Kataphraktoi * ducks before Xen throws the entire weight of the Byzantine army at me*). It seems to work well enough for me, mabey you didn't enter the cd code on the inside back of the jewal case if you don't do that it doesn't work. Mabey I will see you there some time if you ever get it working (I have the same name there as here).

Now back on topic, Who do we need UUs for still. Or do we need to get a deffinate list of civs first. I am begining to be willing to compramise. I will give up on Bree just so long as I get Dale. I would also like to hear an expalation for the gia civ, if it sounds good I may agree to it and give up on the Eagles and Ents. I would also be willing to consolidate sove of the elven civs. If some one else could put up a list of civs they would like that would be great. perhaps we should determine how many we want first. Oh, and I will give a re explanation of my small civs idea as I have refined it some what. But right now it is time for bed. I know ,PCH, sleep is for suckers.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

Ok, we need to start somewhere...

1 Gondor
2 Rohan
3 Mordor
4 Isengard
5 Easterlings
6 Harad
7 Dwarfs
8 Elves 1 (Noldor?)
9 Elves 2 (like the Mirkwood Elves)
10 Numenor

The above civs I believe we all want. The civs below are arguable in my eyes.

11 Hobbits
12 Dale
13 Angmar and/or-
14 Angband
15 Third Elven Race
16 Arnor
17 Misty Mountain Orcs
18 Dunlendings (as in Wild Men)
19 Second Dwarf Race
20 Valinor
21 Umbar
22 (Ents, Eagles...)

OK. I believe I got most of what was said earlier in this list. Please DO correct me when Im wrong.

What we should do now IMHO, is: Complete the above list to its full length. Only when we have agreed on a maximum list I think a good discussion is possible. Then, in the discussion we should adress each of the questionable races and determine if were going to use it.

(though there weren many ppl here this weekend) we have a large number of ppl here. Lets keep this debate usefull for tLotM, and try to make some progress here.

 

[tjedge1]

I agree with 1-10, the elven civs could be called Noldor and Sindar.
11 Hobbits - This should be a civ for sure. Someone said they were making graphics and units.
12 Dale - I would like to see Dale and Bree as 1 civ. Something called the Free Peoples. A generic civ maybe.
13 Angmar and/or 14 Angbad - I would go for Angmar. Especially if the nazgul thing is never worked out. I would mostly want this because I want to make a scenario on the fall of Arnor.
16 Arnor - This is a good idea as this is the nation with Dunedan Rangers. Aragorn came from the lands that Arnor once existed.
15,17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22 are not necessary. Mountain Orcs could just be Angmar orcs or barbs. Valinor is too strong. More elven and dwarven civs would be to duplicate of the others. Dunlendings were mostly barbaric and were chased north by Rohan. They were basically barbs. Umbar is part of the Haradrim. Ents and Eagles should be a Gaia civ.

Theres my 2 cents.

 

[Mithadan]

If we have two Elven civs, then one should be Moriquendi or Avari(the regular elves) and the other one should be a combination of the Sindar and the Noldor (the ones that fought Morgoth and Sauron, who sail away on the swan ships, etc.). Might as well call the second type Calaquendi. 'Course, I'd prefer having Moriquendi, Sindar, and Noldor running around -- but what do I know? That probably will wreck gameplay or something, beats me.

I actually would like Dunland in as a civ, even if they are barbarians. At least that way there isn't a giant gaping space in-between the Shire and Isengard/Rohan on our W.M.E. map. Or...maybe we could integrate Dunland into the Isengard civ, so then it wouldn't be a "one-city civ"???

Hobbits, yes please.

Free peoples, sure, sounds nice to me. Maybe a cooler name? Have to think about that...

Either Angmar or Mountain Orcs would be nice (just "Orcs" by themselves would be a more parsimonious name), because we need some annoying baddies running around the North too! Or not, again, I have no idea what this would do to gameplay.

Arnor, uh, gee, I have no idea. Hmmm. The thing about Arnor and Angmar is that they were such fleeting realms. They didn't last long. Hmmmm...

No Valinor. I believe I already railed against that suggestion a few threads ago.

Umbar included with Haradrim, sure, sounds like a decent compromise to me.

Gaia, sure, whatever, I don't know enough about how that would work or wouldn't work. Course we shouldn't call it Gaia, but "Arda" or something like that. We could even call it "Manwe and Yavanna" (for the Eagles and the Ents???). Sounds crazy, though.

But aren't we waiting for PCH or Celeborn or mrtn or somebody to tell us their grand ideas about the Civs that they've been working on behind the scenes for the last while? I'd like to hear about what they've been up to!

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by [Ant]Wimp
Ok, we need to start somewhere...
The civs below are arguable in my eyes.

11 Hobbits yes
12 Dale no
13 Angmar and/or- see below
14 Angband yes
15 Third Elven Race don't think so
16 Arnor yes
17 Misty Mountain Orcs see below
18 Dunlendings (as in Wild Men) no, they didn't have any cities
19 Second Dwarf Race no! Strength in Unity.
20 Valinor no!
21 Umbar no
22 (Ents, Eagles...) I can take a one-"city" Fangorn, but no eagles
...

A good list mellon!
I think that the two elves should be called Sindarin and Noldor. Mithadan, I see what you mean, but I will (as usual ) say that we should keep it simple, and in English (wherever applicable). I don't know if they should be called Sindar or Sindarin, but Mithadan will know that.
My thoughts about the above list are in red.
Angmar and the Northern Orcs can be joined into one civ (preferably called Angmar). They just lost their Capital.
Bree is just a part of Arnor. Umbar is just a port in Harad.

 

[SoCalian]

Alrighty, now that we have had some more feed form some more people, I feel that now is the time to post my newly revised Civ list and explenation of the Small Civs concept. I hope we can all agree on this, or at least the "Major Civs". BTW, when I refer to the civs a being "Major" or "Minor" I am refering to the weather or not the number cities each civ will get will be restricted or not. Small civs will have restriction, while Major civs will not. They are also organized by culture group as defined by PCH.
* indicates that we all can agree upon (correct me if I am wrong)

Major Civs

Edain/Eldar
*Gondor
*Numenor
*Sindar(Beleriand)
*Noldor(Beleriand)
Elves of Eriador(needs a beter name; Rivendale, Gray Havens, Shire Elves)
Elves south of Eriador(needs better name; Lorien, Hollin, Swanhaven)
Vanyar(simply to have some representation of Aman in the mod)
Arnor(including Bree)

Hobbits
*The Shire

Dwarves
*Dwarves(they pretty much all acted as one nation)

Lesser Men and Elves
*Rohan
*Southrons(Harad, Umbar, pretty much everything south of Gondor)
*Easterlings(Rhun, Khand, Wainridders, Variags, everything east of Mirkwood)
Eastern Elves(Mirkwood, Avari, everything east of the Misty Mountains that is not included in the Southern Elves)

Evil
*Mordor
Angmar(indluding the Northern Orcs)
Angband(including Utumno)

Small Civs

Lesser Men and Elves
Dale
Beornings
Ossiriand

Dwarves
Petty Dwarves(they were the only dwarves to act on thier own)

Evil
*Isengard(for all intents and purposes it is a Major Civ)

Unknown Culture Group
Ents
Eagles
Gaia(though the Ents and Eagles might be included in this, I would need a descripion of how exactaly it would work though, before I could make a judgement)

Explanation of the Small Civ concept:

Each of the small civs is between 1 and 5 cities large. They are used mostly to be a buffer between the major civs. They are not meant to be playable, but could be easily changed. They would not need UUs or much of the planing required for the other civs. They are also meant to give some of the noteworthy cultures that may or may not have had a large impact on the world of Middle Earth. As far far as I can tell there is nothing bad that could come from this. Of coure it goes with out saying, that Isengard is an exeption to almost all of what I have just said about the Small civs.

Edit: please comment on the major civs first as they are the most important. THe Small civs are pretty much just nitpicking at this point.

 

[mrtn]

Ok, I'll just comment on the ones in SoCalians list that wasn't included in [Ant]Wimp's list.

Elves of Eriador(needs a beter name; Rivendale, Gray Havens, Shire Elves)
Elves south of Eriador(needs better name; Lorien, Hollin, Swanhaven)
Vanyar(simply to have some representation of Aman in the mod)
Eastern Elves(Mirkwood, Avari, everything east of the Misty Mountains that is not included in the Southern Elves)

I don't want any of these. These Elves should all just be included in the two Elven civs we have.

SoCalian, is the Small Civs meant to be on a map with preplaced cities? In that case it could work, but I don't want them in a game where everyone starts with one settler. In the preplaced case no one should be able to build settlers, as that would only make Mordor build settlers to settle the east.
But lets wait with that scenario until the mod is playable.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by mrtn
SoCalian, is the Small Civs meant to be on a map with preplaced cities? In that case it could work, but I don't want them in a game where everyone starts with one settler. In the preplaced case no one should be able to build settlers, as that would only make Mordor build settlers to settle the east.
But lets wait with that scenario until the mod is playable.

YES. The Mod comes first, so PLEASE leave that 1 city civs behind. You will have them when designing the ME scenario, which will be a different kind of task.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

We geting somewhere now I believe we all agree that in any case

11 Hobbits
13 Angmar with Misty Mountain Orcs
16 Arnor

should go the the mayor civ list. And I dont think we need so many elven civs. Maybe a third. Ill do some research...

(and please ppl, I only added the [ant] tag to my name since I probly long ago created the taggless username here. Just call me Wimp )

 

[SoCalian]

As far as I can tell the two elven civs we have right are from Beleriand. That gives no representation to the elves elsewhere. Could you please show me where the other elves would fit into thes two. As far as the Vanyar go I think that they should be included also. They did have more actual cities that almost anyone else. Besides that, they are the only civ from Aman that we can add that is realistic. They give good representation of Aman too. Another point I would like make is that there will be 6.5 Man civs in the mod, and only 2 Elvish civs they way it seems to be going. that seems to me to be just a little bit of underrepresentation for such an important race. I propose that we have at least 4 Elven Civs. They should be the Noldor and Sindar, plus The Vanyar and Lorion. lorion because it was an actual nation. The way I see it, we should not exclude any civ that we can get a sizeable city list for and was relatively impotant.

 

[SoCalian]

For more information on Lorien Read the Section entitled "Boundries of Lorien" in The Book of Unfinnished Tales.

 

[Owen Glendower]

I see no reason to include civs from Aman. We're talking about an entirely separate continent there. I was under the impression this was a Middle Earth mode, not an Arda mode.

 

[Mithadan]

Uh, should I respond in this thread, or continue on chatting about Elven and Aman civs in Thread #7 that just got opened up?

 

[PCHighway]

Yeah, lets go to septa
I'll post my civ wishes there.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64619

 

[DragynLord]

Hello all. I am relatively new, and I would like to help any way that I can. One problem however: I dont really know that much, about the more obscure oints of Tolkien (Who the heck is Valinor?), or about making units and such, and integrating them into the game. I suspect my lack of Tolkien knowledge comes from the fact I could never get through the Silmarillion. One question: Where are the city lists for this mod located? I have been trying to find some, without luck.

 

[[Ant]Wimp]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=64619

You'll find them in the first post of this thread. Good to have you abord!