[UNIT] Mighty Ships Et Al

[MightyToad]

Your ships have inspired me to release something that was previously for my own use only. I figured you and others might find it interesting. link

Using this.

I'll try to fix that as soon ad I can. That's very odd...

I think I'd like to model a unit to add to this Mighty Ships thread. The Red Seal ship. I'll try to model one soon.

I fixed mine last night. It is definitely the version number thing. Just to be safe I filled out everything just to be sure.
I think it they should change it so it refuses to post and gives a error message. Just to be more noob proof.

Whats a red seal ship?

 

[Matsuda123]

I think I fixed it. Yamato Spearman should be done by the weekend.

Red Seal Ships were some of Japan's most impressive vessels. A combination of Western and Eastern shipbuilding techniques, providing the Japanese with ships capable of traversing the oceans. They would have been more used if not for the isolation of Japan that came shortly thereafter. They would make for great Galleon replacements for the Japanese, and be excellent for a scenario in which the East begins to colonize America on it's Western side. It would be most interesting to see how the Samurai match up against the Native Americans. I don't think the losses for Japan would be as intense, considering the Japanese were very much into horse archery and naginata usage, and not overly reliant on just guns.

Here are pictures.

 

[MightyToad]

I think I fixed it. Yamato Spearman should be done by the weekend.

Red Seal Ships were some of Japan's most impressive vessels. A combination of Western and Eastern shipbuilding techniques, providing the Japanese with ships capable of traversing the oceans. They would have been more used if not for the isolation of Japan that came shortly thereafter. They would make for great Galleon replacements for the Japanese, and be excellent for a scenario in which the East begins to colonize America on it's Western side. It would be most interesting to see how the Samurai match up against the Native Americans. I don't think the losses for Japan would be as intense, considering the Japanese were very much into horse archery and naginata usage, and not overly reliant on just guns.

Here are pictures.

I'll be honest with you. Those ships aren't blowing my skirt up. I know you're enamoured with japanese culture, so don't go full godzilla on me.
The just look like western ships with batten sails.

About the yamato spearman... It still needs more work. The bone rigging script didn't like his helmet. Some of the vertices on the edges aren't connected to the head bone, but to something else. There is also a forgotten face I missed around the shoulder area. Probably other things as well.

Also, I don't see how you're going to get far with the textures without adjusting the UV. It was really half assed. I find it easier to adjust the UV to suit the textures I find rather than the other way around.

 

[Matsuda123]

Lol well that's why I'm modeling it, not you. I get you.

Ah I see. Well when the texture job is finished I'll send it to you first for the adjustments.

Oh don't worry, I already adjusted the UV lines to fit with what was needed. Should be ready soon.

 

[MightyToad]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/two-sailing-ships.28232/

I was stuck on this ship for a while. Unsure how it would work. Initially I was going to have the catapult turn like a turret. I don't think would have been possible IRL. Next was to have the catapult fire rearwards, and have the ship face backwards during attack. That wasn't really feasible to have the ship spin around, fire the catapult, and spin around again all in .7 seconds.
So, finally I compromised to have the catapult fire forwards over the mast, and have the ship face forward during attack like the submarine. Rather than have it come along side enemy ships like normal. I think Cogs are ugly little ships, and this is probably me second least favorite ship so far.

Someone thought the Catamaran need more guns. Lots of guns... So, here are some guns. Should be more than capable of handling a frigate. I'll leave the iron clads and SOTL to Matsuda123. I think catamarans would probably be excellent gun platforms.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

If you are not shy about custom animations why not just take a look at how battleships and destroyers turn their turret and implement that but for the catapult? I've done enough combination animations to know you should be able to combine those with the movement animations of a sail ship to get a decent result.

 

[MightyToad]

If you are not shy about custom animations why not just take a look at how battleships and destroyers turn their turret and implement that but for the catapult? I've done enough combination animations to know you should be able to combine those with the movement animations of a sail ship to get a decent result.

Oh I know. I actually already did that with the gunboat. It has the galley skeleton with a "turret" bone grafted on the back. Got it to work thanks to Master Jedi SabotLieh's animation tutorial.
I didn't go that route this time because the catapult is really part of the ships super structure. I didn't think the turret concept would have occurred to people in medieval times.
A ballista on the other hand is another story.

 

[<Nexus>]

So the catapult-cog is not a real thing? It never existed right?
I can imagine it as an answer to gun-powder ships by civs without gunpowder

And the other... What's the name? Gun-Catamaran?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

So the catapult-cog is not a real thing? It never existed right?
I can imagine it as an answer to gun-powder ships by civs without gunpowder

Most definitively a fantasy thing, Cogs were mid to late medieval warships that evolved out of previously used galleys and merchant ships and used pretty much the same tactics. As in they relied primarily on boarding. The cannon, if any were used primarily to shoot at enemy infantry massing on the decks of your opposition to clear out as many as you could before hopping over. That is also the reason for the front and rear castles being so high, a feature you don't really see on later ships. They were literal castles. On many ships they even had cannon facing inward over their own deck to fight boarders.

The sort of combat where two ships get side by side and shoot at each other until one sinks didn't really happen until much later at the tail end of the Galleon era. And even than it wasn't really a full on standard until the age of sail proper.

 

[MightyToad]

Like our friend Purple people eater said. There were no cogs with catapults. Only in the movies.
I can't think of any examples, but I would be surprised if the Roman empire didn't put onagers on their ships at some point. They certainly had ballista. They put those on every thing.

I figured this would be a pre-gunpowder ship that can bombard enemy cities. I think it would be useless in ship to ship combat. Its hard enough to hit anything with a cannon. Can you imagine trying to hit another ship with a catapult on rocking moving deck?

 

[<Nexus>]

Can you imagine trying to hit another ship with a catapult on rocking moving deck?

I dunno... I'm not expert at ships.
I can imagine it shooting some burning projectiles that can hit a larger are, so you don't have to be very accurate, just sail close to the enemy ship/ships, set them on fire and quickly sail away before they could make an effective counter-attack. Such a what-if ship.

 

[MightyToad]

I dunno... I'm not expert at ships.
I can imagine it shooting some burning projectiles that can hit a larger are, so you don't have to be very accurate, just sail close to the enemy ship/ships, set them on fire and quickly sail away before they could make an effective counter-attack. Such a what-if ship.

I am planning to convert the Civ5 Byzantine Dromon soon. It will need something like this. I don't think it would shoot projectiles. Except the usual fire arrows. Its kind of dumb they made the greek fire syphons ranged weapons. They were anything but ranged. Their short range was the primary short coming. So, that is an historical ship that used the "burn them all" strategy. Being set on fire is a powerful motivator for some people it turns out.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Like our friend Purple people eater said. There were no cogs with catapults. Only in the movies.
I can't think of any examples, but I would be surprised if the Roman empire didn't put onagers on their ships at some point. They certainly had ballista. They put those on every thing.

I figured this would be a pre-gunpowder ship that can bombard enemy cities. I think it would be useless in ship to ship combat. Its hard enough to hit anything with a cannon. Can you imagine trying to hit another ship with a catapult on rocking moving deck?

I can imagine them being useful for siege warfare much in the same way early cannon galleys were used.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/two-sailing-ships.28232/

I was stuck on this ship for a while. Unsure how it would work. Initially I was going to have the catapult turn like a turret. I don't think would have been possible IRL. Next was to have the catapult fire rearwards, and have the ship face backwards during attack. That wasn't really feasible to have the ship spin around, fire the catapult, and spin around again all in .7 seconds.
So, finally I compromised to have the catapult fire forwards over the mast, and have the ship face forward during attack like the submarine. Rather than have it come along side enemy ships like normal. I think Cogs are ugly little ships, and this is probably me second least favorite ship so far.

Someone thought the Catamaran need more guns. Lots of guns... So, here are some guns. Should be more than capable of handling a frigate. I'll leave the iron clads and SOTL to Matsuda123. I think catamarans would probably be excellent gun platforms.

Very nice........I kind of envisioned an evolution from the Catamaran into a War Catamaran(think Trireme to Medieval War Galley) and then to something like the Galleas, If they had contact with Indonesia they could pick up Indonesia ship building techiques, and its likely the cannons could come from there, along with the merging of possibly, of Junk designs with the Catamaran.

 

[Matsuda123]

I am planning to convert the Civ5 Byzantine Dromon soon. It will need something like this. I don't think it would shoot projectiles. Except the usual fire arrows. Its kind of dumb they made the greek fire syphons ranged weapons. They were anything but ranged. Their short range was the primary short coming. So, that is an historical ship that used the "burn them all" strategy. Being set on fire is a powerful motivator for some people it turns out.

I do love Dromons.

Do you think we might see African or Southeast Asian ships? Maybe I should model some of those...

 

[MightyToad]

I do love Dromons.

Do you think we might see African or Southeast Asian ships? Maybe I should model some of those...

I'm not really familiar with SE Asia history or ships. Mostly british/american history and ships. So, not really a priority ATM. I do admire the ingenuity of the Polynesian ships though.

By africa you mean like Carthage? I was thinking the quinquereme could come up to ships and slap them with their corvus.

Very nice........I kind of envisioned an evolution from the Catamaran into a War Catamaran(think Trireme to Medieval War Galley) and then to something like the Galleas, If they had contact with Indonesia they could pick up Indonesia ship building techiques, and its likely the cannons could come from there, along with the merging of possibly, of Junk designs with the Catamaran.

Im not an expert. I think by the time cannons would have made high castles like a galeas obsolete. On the other hand they had cannons for as long or longer as the great powers. And the old way of fighting never went out of style. They usually only carried a couple cannon for antipersonnel use.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Either way I hope you don't mind me picking some of your ships up and modifying them to suit my needs when I get to doing the few remaining civs I still have to do ship vise.

 

[MightyToad]

Either way I hope you don't mind me picking some of your ships up and modifying them to suit my needs when I get to doing the few remaining civs I still have to do ship vise.

You know I DGAF. Please do.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

What I mean is Catamaran/Junk hybrid, much like the Carrack was the merging of medieval european and nordic(longship) techniques. It is also possible that they could evolve heavier warship designs and keep the sleek form, evolving into something akin to a catamaran with many guns as well as a more long, Clipper like shape. That combination of speed and power would be deadly.

Here is an example of a southeast asian warship fyi:

 

[MightyToad]

What I mean is Catamaran/Junk hybrid, much like the Carrack was the merging of medieval european and nordic(longship) techniques. It is also possible that they could evolve heavier warship designs and keep the sleek form, evolving into something akin to a catamaran with many guns as well as a more long, Clipper like shape. That combination of speed and power would be deadly.

Wow, those look bad ass.
I love the bow art. The firgurehead reminds me of Viking ships. Its like a cross between a Maori war canoe and a long ship I think.