Mighty Suryavarman II

[lymond]

ah...we can't switch to Bud per the variant. Does that rule mean we can't run FR?

Monasteries are 2t build in both cities, so 1 turn and whip

I don't think both Theo and Vass is worth it unless you are charismatic. A settled GG in a unit pump would make it worth it though but I value the medic first almost always. Stables are very quick builds at this point.

We may have a chance at to get some WEs a lot of experience by picking off mounted units in the open field during combat, so it is worth a shot. We can always save a second GG - which we are bound to get - for the upgrade. Once we have a 20% xp WE, we give him an honourable discharge.

The tricky thing here is making sure we get a sufficient army of Curs out in the field before pillaging copper or horses - then pre-improved the resource as we build some WEs. We need to keep the fight going with Curs.

 

[vranasm]

I don't think we are bound to run the religion. We are bound to "find it" and that we already did so the rule 1 is satisfied as per view of author of the rules ;-).

the rule 3 is of course too.

We are now fulfilling rule 2 and 4 imo.

 

[lymond]

I'm playing today...looks like no feedback so I will more or less stick to the plan I laid out. I expect to stop around or during the Golden Age, so civic decisions can be made for next TS.

 

[lymond]

ok...TS played...sorry, completely forget about screenies. Some things happened all at once like wars and wonder completion, so it was hard to capture everything anyway.

Summary:

1) The whole world is at war except for us. Just declared on Mansa and then Biz and Wang declared on Just. Then Sal declares on Wang. I forget but Pacal may be at war with someone too -we still can't talk to him. I think Biz and Just made peace, but now Biz and Sal are at war. Pretty crazy but should work to our advantage.

2) Ox and Taj are complete. We are on the last turn of Golden Age, so we can make civic decisions for next TS. I did not change civics. Caste was a possibility, but I was concerned more with whipping and war prep than GPPs. We should get 2 GPs soon anyway. Copper city can starve down on GPs to get out 1 this turn I think, at the expense of Bud monastery this turn (this might be better as once Old Cap pops one then Copper city would then take a long time). Old cap/NE will get one soon too. We still have 1 GS (I bulbed PP)

3) Finished MT, GP, PP, and a quick Guilds. Traded for Engineering/Theo and good chunk of gold for Edu with Sal. Oh...easy Philo for Machinery trade early on.

4) Spread some Bud, but we need a few more mishes.

5) Built some stables and a handful of HAs for upgrade. We can rock out some Curs now and surprise Sal. He will still be tough with his Phants, Super Camels, and Protectiveness, but we should be able to take him since he has stacks in Korea.

6) Got up some other infra like CHs. Ice city should be fairly productive now with minimal whipping. Capital should not be whipped at all since it will grow slowly onto cottages and the windmills we now need to build there.

7) Thom should obviously get HE when unlocked - it is a powerhouse.

8) We should have plenty of Cur whippage potential to get up a fast army...plus about 6 or 7 HAs to upgrade now.

9) We could bulb Chem and tech it in a turn or 2 or save the GS for another golden age. Copper city might pop an odd GP.

10) Economics appears open too right now if we decide to go Banking route. This would open up Rifling path and Cavalry, plus Rep for boosted windmills. This actually might be the better thing to do now, although Chem will be a fast tech regardless if we choose to bulb it.

Interestingly, I figured we would bribe everyone into war anyway before attacking, but the AIs have done that for us. We appear to be in a very strong position methings.

edit: May be controversial, but at the time I was completing a farm/chop in Copper city, I really had no buildings to put the OR chop into. HAs were coming quick regardless, so I wanted to put those hammers into something useful. I decided on the Hermitage as I thought it may help push are borders prior to and during the attack on Sal and further secure them. It is such a quick build anyway so I don't think it hurts much. A Cur whip should finish it out.

 

[vranasm]

aaah sorry for the lack of comment... thanks for playing the TS L. I will have to look at the save (prolly tomorrow) to comment more.

I think nocho is up now anyway? Rusten wrote he needs skip...

 

[nocho]

Yeah, really looks good.

However, I'm afraid I'll also have to skip. Really sorry about that, but from Tuesday till Sunday I won't have time at all due to a trip and likely tomorrow won't really find the time either.

 

[vranasm]

I checked the save and
it looks pretty strong... I am not sure I want to play the next TS though (since it would be me-lymond-me in the order). So I will give a bit more time if Rusten shows up or someone else gets time before going in.

Imo we should attack in next 6-8 turns from what I see... 2 rounds of whips and go in... upgrade HA's in the process.

 

[Cam_H]

lurker's comment:

So what's the thinking on Buddhism as well as civic swaps?

What plans for your two upcoming Great People (assume Great Scientists)? Bulb toward Chemistry or merge into Angkor Wat?

I suspect vranasm's right in that 22-ish Queerieseers is 'do-able' at least for Najran and Mecca, but I think it's still marginal - as noted, esp. if Saladin has a few War Elephants up his sleeve, or does a turn-around with his stacks that are drifting around Korea.

 

[vranasm]

@Cam

welcome aboard , finally lured you here. I hope you will quickly change the status from lurker to playing next TS though ;-).

As you will quickly realize (if you sneak few pages back) this SG is very relaxing in terms of discussions. Actually last few turn sets were done by laying out plan and then max 1-2 players of roster saying "it's ok" or it looks to me like that.

As for your questions.
I really am not sure with Budh, but since we want to war Sal and WK it seems logical thing to do. The rules allow that.

As for civics, that's delicate. Imo we should stay in slavery. Not sure with Bur and OR. Vassalage and Theo both offer something for our current situation and I guess the next player has to decide this.
If we go Theo we probably have to stay Hindu though. We don't have Budh everywhere.

22 cuirs is fine first wave imo, but that certainly doesn't mean that the whips shouldn't continue for awhile. 30 would be a bit overkill for first wave (emphasis on "first wave").
I guess Sal being prot complicates this a bit though.

We have to get over 40% land ourself (which probably won't be problematic if we go domination), but if we want Diplomation then surely we have to watch this.
Thus not sure if vassaling Sal after half of his cities is something we want to do. I guess it will depend on our progress and overall war situation (for example if WK starts to win against Sal and he could vassal him himself then we surely have to act proactively there).

 

[nocho]

You enlisted Cam? Good job!

 

[Cam_H]

Waaaah?

Enlisted?

Did I say that I'm a lover not a fighter?

 

[nocho]

Yes, Michael. Now get off your oxygen mask and beat it, just beat it.

(it=Sal)

 

[Cam_H]

I was about to play, but I'm still really not sure on the team thinking;

I'm inclined to stick with Hinduism (due to its spread) but swap to Theocracy. All other civics to remain the same.

I can only assume that Saladin has stacks floating around in Korea, and very nervous about sending our Cuirrassiers off westerly toward Mecca only to have our south eastern cities threatened - esp. if Korea-Arabs sign peace and the Arabian stacks get teleported somewhere particularly un-opportune.

I still also don't know what you want done with the two Great Scientists (probability assumes they'll both be Great Scientists) that are to pop either. Merging a Great Scientist into the capital will 'break even' in terms of in 80 turns, versus bulbing Chemistry, but you also get that free from the merged Great Scientist. I'd bulb one and merge the other into the capital (Oxford Uni'), but open to alternative strategies.​

I acknowledge that there's been a degree of trust within the roster, but it's kind of a crucial point in the game, and I don't want to 'mess' it up for you; 'cause I'm bad, I'm bad, ya' know it.

 

[vranasm]

What about storing one for GA if we pop something other then GS?

You could shift some LB's from west cities towards east. The most east city is a bit marginal and was mostly settled because the right spot was taken by AI's.

So we have to guard capital and HE city as priority, both are on hill (if I remember right).

You can always pause if something really bad happens.

I am fine with Hindu if we go Theo, but since we have rax+stables everywhere it will probably not benefit us much... making our cuirs 7/10 instead of 5/10.

OR could be helpful if we attack Korea if we stay hindu since it will help with whipping infra in Korea.

I see that is not much helpful from me... I think staying OR or going Free Religion is probably better then Theo in this situation...

 

[Cam_H]

In a nutshell:

We DoW-ed Saladin, but rather than take cities in his core empire as (I guess) originally planned, we've wiped out his invasion SoD that was in Korea. We took Cheju off Arabia, who took it off Korea. Popped two Great Scientists and a Great General (now a super-medic). We had one spare Great Scientist sleeping in Yasodharapura. I merged two Great Scientists into Angkor Wat and we have one now sleeping there.

We lost: 6 Cuirassiers.
We still have: 22 Cuirassiers.
We killed: 7 War Elephants, 4 Trebuchets, 4 Catapults, 3 Macemen, 3 Pikemen, 3 Camel Archers, 2 Longbows, and 2 Crossbows (28).

Opening | 920AD

Micro-ed Hariharalaya and Yasodharapura so that the would spawn out of Hariharalaya first (being the non-National Epic city) and we would get our next a bit faster through the National Epic city.

After much internal debate, I took on vranasm's input and my own leanings, and settled on Free Religion. During the turnset, the move into Free Religion started to open up some trade deals for Banking and/or Compass, however none on offer were compelling throughout, and were ignored.

Upgraded four of the Horse Archers.

ibt

Our Granary in Isvarapura gets destroyed by enemy infiltrators.
Arabia takes the Korean city of Cheju.

Turn 1 | 940AD

The Golden Age ends.
Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Hariharapura pops a Great Scientist who journeys to Angkor Wat
Nagara Jayasri and Yasodharapura: whipped

Turn 2 | 960AD

Nagara Jayasri and Yasodharapura: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Isvarapura: Cuirassier (interrupt) > Granary
Hariharapura: Buddhist Monastery > Cuirassier
Angkor Wat: whipped

Great Scientist merges into Angkor Wat;

980AD | Turn 3

Angkor Wat and Angkor Thom: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Loads of Arabian units near newly captured city of Cheju, and we create a Cuirassier stack near-by.

Move another Great Scientist to Angkor Wat for merging into our Oxford Uni capital;

1000AD | Turn 4

Isvarapura: Granary > Cuirassier (resume)
Yasodharapura: whipped

1010AD | Turn 5

Isvarapura: whipped

We go 12 kills to us, 1 to them. Unfortunately later on in the turnset the ratio starts to even out.

1020AD | Turn 6

Angkor Wat, Angkor Thom, Hariharapura, Nagara Jayasri, and Isvarapura: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Yasodharapura: whipped
Yasodharapura pops a Great Scientist. Due to 'uncertainty', he travels to Angkor Wat and sleeps.
Angkor Wat pops a Great General after we go; 5 to us, 1 to them. We also steal a Worker with a pair of opportunistic Cuirassiers near Mecca-Baghdad. Both cities have four CG2 Longbows plus odds-and-sods ... nothing too worrying, but we can't do too much as our stack's some distance away.

No surviving buildings, but we keep the city, despite 94% Korean culture. We may need to protect it from flipping with a better military garrison than the one injured Cuirassier that's there now.

With the Horse Archer upgrades all done; up to 20%.

ibt

One of our opportunistic Cuirassiers falls, however at the cost to Saladin of three of his units.

1030AD | Turn 7

Yasodharapura: Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Whip most other cities
Science up to 30%
Lose another 'against the odds' for 1 to us, 1 to them.

Make a super-medic;

1040AD | Turn 9

'Several' cities; Cuirassier > Cuirassier
Saladin has a stack largely comprised of War Elephants and Camel Archers heading back to Arabia just to the south of Angkor Wat. Unfortunately most of our troops are injured, so we chip away at the stack and hopefully take a decent swipe at it next turn.

1050AD | Turn 10

It was bound to happen - the first three Cuirassiers went in to the Arabian stack with better than 50% odds, and all three perished. Thankfully we were able to take out the SoD of nine without further loss.

An Apostolic Palace vote came up: Declare war on Mansa Musa. We voted "No".

Angkor Thom: Cuirassier > Heroic Epic

Saladin is prepared to talk peace. Many of our Cuirassiers are injured (12 near Angkor Wat, 2 in Angkor Wat, 6 in Hariharalaya), but the dozen-sized stack should heal with the super-medic.

Spoiler :

Screenie;

Power;

Simple relations view;

Advanced relations view;

Trades;

 

[vranasm]

Thanks for the TS Cam_H. Looks like great job done.

Will have to check the save later for deeper look.

Nocho will you be able to play? I think you're up now.

WK knows Chemistry which is a bit worrying in my eyes.

 

[Cam_H]

No problem.

I guess the main achievement is that it looks as though we've done some serious damage to Saladin's total army, albeit we've yet to make any inroads into his empire which could well be now more manageable.

I was quite concerned of having Wang Kon vassalise to Arabia and we'd be possibly having to defend the south east while our troops were off to the west, but with our success in dealing with the Arabian threat in Korea, Wang Kon remains at war with Saladin while our south east looks pretty safe.

Our units are admittedly both (a.) quite beaten up, and (b.) out of position, and I'm a bit concerned that 22-ish Cuirassiers is still a bit 'marginal'.

As noted in the report and signed on the map, we have one unused Great Scientist.

 

[vranasm]

I hope the game will not die... will let nocho some 24 hours of letting us know about him.

If he doesn't show up i will take over.

 

[lymond]

This one is going strong, V....no cause for alarm. We'll keep it goin'

 

[vranasm]

This one is going strong, V....no cause for alarm. We'll keep it goin'

we are in super strong position no doubt. The empire is not the problem. The thing between chair and keyboard seems to have some issues though

(in other words I too in last few weeks am lacking a bit on willpower to play civ)