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MLG7: Another Race to Space

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by pholkhero, Feb 5, 2008.

  1. Swiss Pauli

    Swiss Pauli Emperor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,805
    I've not reported yet, but I have played. From Ozbenno's report and save it's clear he's playing a different map to me!
     
  2. TriviAl

    TriviAl Prince

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    South UK
    I think I've got a different map to the others as well. Am I special? :)

    Can play on with it happily, but will wait for some boss input!
     
  3. Kanga_DU

    Kanga_DU Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Messages:
    283
    Quotey:
    Spoiler :

    I think this sums it up.

    :smoke:

    Hey, as I see it I'm allowed one. As I said in reply to Shadzy, I agree horse/sheep would of been a better choice or rice/cows, both before the current St Pete. I really wasn't thinking about it strategically. It was also just before IW finished and I took a chance on iron being there (I was very surprised with it being in the capital).
     
  4. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    I think since Trivai and Oz are both lizzie, they got different saves from us, but the same saves for them. Maybe it was Pholk's idea? :p
     
  5. Meatbuster

    Meatbuster formerly Robo Kai

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,302
    Location:
    Philippines
    Spoiler Quotey :
    No, I didn't get the mids "quite early". And I didn't put it in my capital either but I got it.

    Also there are more "cottageable tiles" on the left side. Not the just the ones on the river. :D

    Spoiler Nationalism? :
    No, I never draft ever. On the other hand, because my ancient capital ain't great for Bureaucracy, this may be a good time to start.
     
  6. Ozbenno

    Ozbenno Fly Fly Away Moderator Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    11,459
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    I do have a different save to everyone else?

    I think I may have confused pholk when I gave him some pointers to doing the saves (makes one of his questions I didn't get at the time make sense). I'll wait for pholk to get back and put Liz back on the same save and I'll replay.
     
  7. Morganknight

    Morganknight Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Well, I am fairly new to the Succession Game scene. This is only my second one...I am currently playing in FFH - A Shadow Introduction. But that is not the worst of it...:mischief:

    I had actually cooled to CivIV after a couple of years playing nonstop. A little over a year ago, a friend of mine told me about the excellent work being done here with the Fall From Heaven Mod. I checked it out and have been playing it solely since then.

    I bought BtS a little while back when FFH made the switch over, so I could continue playing FFH, but didn't really play BtS. In fact, not counting some fooling around I've done, this is my first BTS game.:eek:

    So, please bear with me as I share my novice insight.:D

    Going into this, I really didn't care which economy I tried. My normal playstyle is usually a mix of both, but probably balanced more heavilly to SE.

    I decide to try the SE route...

    Frederick would not normally be my first choice, but he's the one I like best of those that remain to be chosen. Philosophical seems like a must, and without cottages, the minimal savings we receive from our Organized trait might come in handy. In the late game, our SB lets us run extra engineers, so thats probably good...

    And we begin...

    Spoiler :
    Our scout reveals fish to the east. We move our settler southeast and find clams and pigs as well. With rice nearby, I am already thinking about Sushi, lol. With fishing, we should be able to pump our initial settlers and workers out at a fairly good clip.

    Turn 2 - we settle and start researching Fishing. We get about 80 gold from a hut.

    Fishing completes. We switch production to a fishing boat and start researching Bronzeworking. My next two city sites have plenty of forests...

    Turn 8 - we get Sailing from a hut...hmm, Organized leaders build lighthouses for cheap...and exploration tells me I will have lots of coastal cities...perhaps the Great Lighthouse is in our future...(the Colossus is looking tasty too...perhaps I will be able to chop both)

    Turn 9 - we meet the Khmers and somebody discovers Buddhism.

    Turn 20 - we meet Montezuma and somebody discovers Hinduism.

    Turn 21 - we finish researching BW and adopt Slavery.

    Turn 22 - we whip out our workboat

    Turn 23 - we whip out another workboat

    Turn 24 - what the heck, we whip out a lighthouse because we can and start our first settler

    We finish the settler and send it north and begin another settler to go west. I have become enamoured with the Colossus even though I am not Industrious and have no copper, so after a short segue for Mysticism, I start teching toward Metalcasting.

    Turn 46 - Someone discovers Judaism

    As turn 50 ends, my second settler has only 5 turns left, once it is done, I will pump out several workers, and send 2 each to my new cities...


    An obligatory dotmap...thinking about building through the jungle to the north and then backfilling to the coast...we shall see...

    Spoiler :
     

    Attached Files:

  8. blid

    blid Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,083
    Location:
    paris
    Auggie SE : First Round :

    Pre-game toughts :

    Spoiler :


    I already tried no cottages space race before (see here) with a philosophical civ. This time, I wanted to try industrial and see how far I can abuse using wonders. This time, I'm on my own though ...

    On monarch, you can get a fair share of wonders early on and even more if you keep up in research. My plan is to go after the most important wonders at least : henge, pyramids and oracle. The first one gives you free border pops and prophet points. The second, rep baby rep and finally oracle can be used to trigger the more than abused COL slingshot and gimme a religion. The parathenon and GL are in second wave and are on my target list too.

    Augustus has also forums that replace markets and give 25% additional GP points, quite fitting for an SE. He also have praets... shttt

    I thought for a while of choosing a financial civ to play counter current, lakes can give plenty of three coins tiles. I'm glad I didn't, sponsor changed his mind :)




    First round

    Spoiler :


    I moved the warrior and saw the fish but I wasn't willing to abandon the hills. I'm going for wonder based this game and I'll need all the hammers I can have, even if I'm industrious. So I just settle in place and made a classic worker/agriculture start looking at that rice.

    Fisrt hut gimme some gold. Buddhism and hinduism fell shortly in 3680 BC and 3560 BC.

    After agri, I went for hunting to hook the ivory and get the happy face later. My wandering warrior popped another hut for gold making it a total of 102 coins in the treasury.

    I went for mysticism next to start Henge then BW. After the worker was done, capîtal went warrior/stonehenge.

    That's when lady Bella showed her face. I hate her. I hate her. I hate here. I think she can break the fun out a civ game. Why ? because she grabs religions, quite a lot of them. Either you be on her side or kill her, no other choice. Also, she causes happy pacifist monoreligious techtrading feast block on the other continent (when there are two of course). But wait, she doesn't have buddhism... nor hinduism. That changes it all, she's not the only religious freak out there. This could be interesting

    My second warrior went south and discovered how I ruined a nice GP farm location




    The city have absolutely no production, no use for my wonder capital but still it hurts


    BW came in in 2640BC. No copper around. There's no stone nor marble neither. I went for AH to find horsies. At this time, I hadn't figured out yet no barbarians was on. That's what you get when you play with half a dozen champagne cups down your throat.

    I revolted for slavery and queued a settler ahead of Henge, planning to whip him out to get the horses city.

    Surya and Monty showed just after that. I don't have a clue what Surya personality is, not enough experience wiht BTS for that. Monty though... Hell, what neighbourhood is this ?

    AH revealed horsies and I went astray for the blue cicrle.




    I was thinking more land and an additional hill are enough to abandon the coastal site just south of the blue circle. Now that I played ahead, I'm starting to have second thoughts. At least, the site is on a river. I like rivers in BTS for the levee and for the fresh water health. Post-industrial is now a challenge for keeping up your cities healthy.

    Anyway, I settled the blue circle and sent my only worker there, starting with irrigating the flood plain




    The new city started on a barracks, while waiting for something more useful to build.

    Capital finished our first shiny wonder in 2160 BC




    I also finished researching the wheel right before the first round deadline




    Recap :

    Spoiler :

    capital : worker->warrior->henge (partial)->settler (whipped)->Henge
    Techs : Fishing + Mining (from civ)->agriculture->hunting->Bronze working->Animal husbandry->The wheel


    It seems like there's a lot of space out there to settle. There's jungle to the north which should delay AIs settling (my thinking at the time). Still haven't found where my fellow AIs were, poor scouting there (I was also keeping my warrior for fog busting duty fearing those never coming barbarians)

    No hurry with settling more cities for now. I want pyramids and oracle and for that I need quick research. So the next round was planned to keep at two cities and set them for max production
     
  9. glenmetz

    glenmetz Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    464
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Pre-Game Strategy
    Spoiler :
    What am I thinking playing an Monarch level game!!! Well, no shame in finishing last as long as you finish, right. :faint:

    Went with Wang Kon for financial trait which will help where I can't build cottages. Hopefully can build a couple of power house coastal cities with those 3 gold per tile.

    Food is going to be important along with learning techs thats will allow specialists. Tech will go Agri, BW, Hunting then pushing towards Writing for Libraries

    Will shot for Stonehedge and skip religion for a while at the beginning.


    Chapter 1
    Spoiler :

    4000-Move the Warrior to the hill in the east revealing fish and lots of coastal tiles. Really contemplate moving to the Grass 1S of the Ivory, but decide to move the Settler NW to the Hill. This should give me at least 10 GL tiles in the BFC for tons of food and specialists.

    3960-Seoul is founding on the Hill, I get 11 GL and start working on a Warrior. Tech goes to Agriculture.



    3840-WOW!!!! I'll be building a city to get all of those in its BFC.



    3760-1st time I get really lucky, my border pop yields the following:



    The speeds up my tech track quite a bit, and I immediately revolt into Slavery

    3680-Buddhism FIADL

    3560-Agriculture in, Tech to Hunting (Camp needed for the Ivory)
    No Bronze nearby, will need to hit up IW soon to see if we've got any Iron. Do have cows and sheep in the vacinity

    3480-Seoul completes the Warrior, put a couple of hammers in Stonehedge
    Our Warrior finds a village and 47 gold.

    3340-Hunting in, tech to The Wheel
    Switch production to a Scout

    3240-Hinduism FIADL

    3000-The Wheel in, tech to Animal Husbandry
    Scout is done in Seoul, throw a couple more hammers into Stonehedge before getting a worker whipped out at Size 4

    2920-Seoul is Size 4, switch production to a Worker
    We meet Suryavarman II, we are ahead of him in score (so far so good!!!)

    2880-Whip the worker in Seoul

    2840-Worker heads to the Rice and starts a farm, production back to Stonehedge

    2600-Animal Husbandry in (and we have horses to the West). Research to IW which is definately a priority at this point with all of the jungle around here.

    2560-Worker done getting Rice online, heads SE to build Farm on GL next to River

    2400-Meet Isabella, she's PURDY!!!!! :yumyum:

    2360-Seoul is back to Size 4, starts working on Settler to be whipped ASAP

    2320-Judaism is FIADL

    2280-Well, it was Isabella that founded it
    Worker done with Farm and Road, moves NW to Forest/Grass to Chop

    2240-We meet Monty

    2160-Whip the Settler in Seoul

    2040-P'yongyang founded to the SW, work starts on a Barracks



    1960 (Turn 51, oooops)-Realize I've played 1 to many turns, my bad.



    Below is my upcoming city placement. Tech will continue to IW and then will double back onto Fishing and Sailing. Writing next for Libraries. Lots of room around, don't really think early wars will be important. Will just attempt to fill out the land nearby and tech/tech/tech.
     
  10. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,645
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    hey guys ~ i see the problems with the maps, but I think it's just the Liz ones that got farqed up so I'll work on them tomorrow.

    Also, as its 1100 pm now, i'll take a better look at the games and saves tomorrow ~
     
  11. TriviAl

    TriviAl Prince

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    South UK
    Thanks there boss! :)

    And cheers for the setting up!
     
  12. Ad Hoc

    Ad Hoc Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    416
    Location:
    Norwich , England
    Brief Overview

    Spoiler :
    I am not by nature a SE player; I like to see cottages on the map! So playing SE is going to be a challenge.

    My choice of leader was dictated by two precepts one the obelisk means I can have two priests the moment I research Mysticism and being industrious means a decent shot at getting the pyramids which I feel are a necessity to SE.


    The Turns
    Spoiler :

    First move the scout onto the coast, this reveals fish to the east, first choice then is fish or rice, I go for the fish as hopefully I can always build a second city to use the rice, settler moves 2 x SE, the second to check what is to the south, this reveals pigs and clams as well. Well I don’t think that this can get better (without stone or marble) so we will settle there.

    3960BC and Thebes is founded, research is set to fishing and the warrior sets off exploring.

    3880BC Warrior pops a hut and gets pottery

    3760BC Fishing is learnt and we start on Mysticism, Thebes swaps to a work boat

    3560BC A hut gives a little gold

    3440BC Mysticism is learnt and we star on AH

    3160BC Thebes completes its first workboat and starts another

    3080BC the crazy religious chick is around, she’s founded Hinduism



    3040BC AH is in; horses are just to the west. Mining is started.

    2840BC Mining is completed and BW is started, Thebes completes a work boat and starts a settler

    2400BC BW completes and Masonry is started, Thebes completes settler and starts an Obelisk. We revolt to Slavery turn



    2280BC Memphis is founded and begins an obelisk

    2240BC Thebes changes to worker which is whipped next

    2160BC Masonry is completed and we start Writing

    2080BC Thebes completes its Obelisk and will start a worker



    Ongoing Plans

    Spoiler :
    I'm going to chop the Pyramids in Memphis and hopefully expand to a reasonable size technologically advanced Civ.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Tatran

    Tatran Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    4,184
    Wang Kon CE part 1 :
    Spoiler :
    Turn 0
    The starting location is good and almost coastal.
    Warrior goes 1SE. Ocean fish revealed.



    I've to give up 1 turn + a lot of production for it.
    So, Seoul has been founded on the initial starting location.
    Start a worker.
    Research : Agriculture (9)

    Turn 9
    Research : the Wheel (9)

    Turn 15
    Worker is ready.

    Turn 18
    Research : Pottery (10)

    Turn 26
    Another warrior is ready, start a settler.

    Turn 28
    Research : Bronze Working (15)
    So much food, pigs + clam + fish, will be unused.

    Turn 32
    This is not an isolated start.



    Buddhism and Hinduism has both been founded, but not one by Isabella.

    Turn 38
    Settler is ready.

    Turn 40
    Another leader shows up.



    Not the one I prefer, creative + there's ivory at this continent.

    Turn 41
    No copper around.
    Research : Iron Working (16) at 80%
    P'yongyang founded.

    Turn 45
    Start another settler.

    Turn 49
    Judaism has been founded has been founded in a faraway land.

    Turn 50
    The Khmer has metals and has claimed ivory too.
    Surry can be become a very good friend with a religion without it probably
    a huge pain in the butt.
     
  14. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,645
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    @ trivial and Oz

    here jerks
     

    Attached Files:

  15. TriviAl

    TriviAl Prince

    Joined:
    May 28, 2003
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    South UK
    Thanks sexy! :)
     
  16. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,645
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    @ shady
    Spoiler :

    Nice going on the henge ~ interested to see how the strategy plays out for you. I've since fallen away from teh worker > chop worker strat since chopping was nerfed after vanilla.


    @ robo

    Spoiler :
    nice going on the new city already. interested to see how your GE strat plays out


    @ kanga

    Spoiler :
    tough luck on the lost mvmt points. also, why settle your 2nd city where you did? no resources until calendar!


    @ quotey

    Spoiler :
    no kidding about a lack of production in your capital. I expect you'll be whipping to your heart's content there, no?


    @ morgan
    Spoiler :

    i didn't know you so "inexperienced" ~ glad to have you aboard. and nice work on makinng full use of those food resources :whipped: however, you, like kanga, settled with only a calendar resource in the BFC ~ why?


    @ blid

    Spoiler :
    intersting you chose to settle 1 off the coast. just trusting the blue circle gods??


    @ glenmetz

    Spoiler :
    so far, the only one to move NW and you got lucky by still being able to found a city where some folks capitals are. Looks to be an interesting path to follow :goodjob:


    @ ad hoc

    Spoiler :
    so far, you're the only one to settle your 2nd city where you did ~ will work nice for your WCs (if you can get to an opponent in time). I wonder if you'll try to make good use of the early GPriest generation afforded by the obelisk ~


    @ tatran
    Spoiler :

    your opinion on Surya marches well with mine ~ he's a real PITA, and i've found somewhat of a backstabber. With Izzy and Monty, should make for a fun continent, no?? :lol:


    some other general thoughts:

    re: no barbs ~ sorry :( i thought i'd let ya'll know; it was in MY notes for the game :)

    also, it'll be intersting to see how the Pyramids sets apart the SE games ~

    i was going to go w/no goody huts, too, but decided against it. I wish i did but i don't think it'll make much of a difference as the games play out ~ in the beginning sure, but not after the next round or so methinks.

    good to see so many playing above the comfort level, too

    also, how many of the SE players have never really ran one before??
     
  17. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    When's the due date for the games? I want to know when i should play as i'm to lazy to make the full report. ;)
     
  18. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,631
    Location:
    Edinburgh Scotland
    The Strategy

    Spoiler :
    So I chose Hannibal mainly to try and give a trade route boosted Economy a go using his UB (Cothons + 1 route) in combination with the Great Lighthouse and lots of coastal cities to track how much that could boost a cottage economy.

    The does mean I am praying for a coastal start….

    Now Hannibal charismatic + 1 happy + the potential for another +1 from a monument needs to be born in mind with some starts as it lets us have bigger cities which is important for a CE. IMHO a SE can survive with quite a few coastal fishing village type places running two scientists at size 4. The CE needs to work a “lot” of cottages so size matters more here.


    Report

    Spoiler :
    The starting position, well with a hint of coast and fishes seen as my warrior climbs the hill it is clear I will be moving the settler.

    I actually prefer the site just S of the Ivory as with Pigs the city will have too much food and too little production. Here I have 2 food specials and a hill to give the city some hammers.

    So Carthage is founded.



    Build Order here is a no-brainer of Workboat -> Workboat, should be size 3 and then start a worker.

    Research Order.

    We have fishing and mining so are lucky with our techs for this start. Means I can afford to go straight to BW and hope the missing special form out starting spot (which had only rice) is copper.

    Also with 2 seafood we are going to be using the Whip…


    Now our Warrior gets lucky popping two techs out of 3 huts…



    When Bronze Working finishes we take Mysticism next as Stonehenge could be valuable with our traits and the lack of obvious happy resources about.

    A nicely timed bit of MM gets us to size 3 ready for the worker


    Post the worker we switch to Stonehenge to grow to size 5 then a settler for a 2 pop whip who founds in the nice heavy production cow and rice spot.



    After mysticism we went Wheel Animal Husbandry and then started Iron working (6 to go at turn 50) as with no horses or copper its odds on there is Iron around here somewhere.



    Next Set Plan

    Spoiler :
    Found a coastal city picking up sheep and horses and get going with Cottages.
    Then Great Lighthouse time..


    Ralph
     

    Attached Files:

  19. TheLastOne36

    TheLastOne36 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,045
    Well i don't want to wait and find out i gotta play before tomorow :rolleyes: so i decided to play now. (But only manage to post Part 1, Part 2 will have to be played tomorow)

    Spoiler :

    Well i decide to to move the scout 1 SE and it reviews fish. then i move it 1SW revealing nothing. Most be a juicy spot of SE's but i'm CE and would rather gain Production. So i move the settler to the hill NW.

    Settle Persepolis on a hill:

    Began Worker, and start the Wheel.

    The Generator is being kind for ounce:

    And i see some horses i tile west from my fat cross:
    I love my luck,


    Wheel done, Start Pottery. This time i only get 27 gold from a hut. Guess luck is ending.
    Finish worker then start a Scout.
    Meet Surya. I don't like him much. Creative civs tend to be rexers and surya's AI is pretty good at that. there is also Ivory on this continent and his Leaderhead is pretty ugly.


    few turns later means we meet Isabella:

    Isabella founds hinduism a turn later.
    Pottery in so i start BW. The Khmer are also talking 'bout how good there truffles are. Complete my scout and start a Granery, while i grow to get another worker.

    My worker begans my first Cottage!
    Meet Monty.... This should be interesting.

    Then some real life problems kept me from playing the rest of the set and it's pretty late right now and i won't be able to play till tomorw.


    So please take a look and give me feedback on the Leader pictures! :D
     
  20. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
    Messages:
    5,645
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    play by friday if you can ~ that'll be the official round 1 "due date" ~ we'll try to make it every friday, sound good to ya'll??

    so take your time TLO
     

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