Got it. As far as strategy I think we want to pound the tech leaders and starve cities. No for taking Islands yet, that will be difficult. My feeling is that we won't have the unit support to do this until we have markets and ducts but we shall see. When there are 2 civs are on the Island I'd say we weaken the strongest first by taking some costal cities that can be isolated by bombardment. Then ally against the strong one and when the 2 civs burn all their troops on each other then we can march all over the Island. Since we can't have more cities other than one for military purposes we need to take whole Islands in one opperation, Anything short of that and the AIs will just reexpand. With the Sid growth/build rate they will be up to full speed in no time if we have to retreat from an Island and we will just have to do it again. It will take a lot of troops to take whole Islands from a Sid civ. TGL/infra/SoZ are top priorties. That and slowing the tech pace to a standstill with our dromons.
MM4:The Rule of 6, Sid 6CC-Conquest
- Thread starter Mark1031
- Start date
Aggie
Deity
I agree completely Mark1031 
Well it seems that we have enough dromons or at least all we can afford at the moment so I switch most cities to temple/granary or workers. Not much to report basically bombard the coasts and try to take some workers. I have a few dromons on goto to pick up some warriors for the essentially suicide worker capture technique. We cannot afford much more in terms of units we really need to develop our economy. The GL is due in 4 and we should get Monarchy and construction. Americans got the great wall. I would build ducts all around but Nicea can be used as a 2-turn worker factory for improvement and merging once the ducts are done. Also, I recommend 1 scientist on currency when available as this is the last tech for the AIs to research and it may take a while to get it. Thats all, things look good ATM with our large Navy. If we can keep the tech pace at a stand still we can build up troops for a Japan/Egypt Island take over. We will need a much more developed economy to support this.
Bed UP
Percy On Deck
Bed UP
Percy On Deck
Aggie
Deity
Again I fully support your views Mark1031. Sorry if it sounds boring 
I was looking for something fun to do, so we revolted and went in to anarchy. That got boring, so I settled for Monarchy, as Queen Theodora has a really nice ring to it.
I also wanted a friend. So we made peace with the Arabs and allied them against America. The hope was to get them to waste some units on each other, but the Arabs seem to be over matched. America has both iron and horses (I thought we had disconnected them both early enough that there wouldn't be too many) while the Arabs have neither. I hope this wasn't too big a mistake.
Here is the effect of the Great Library.
With anarchy and some city improvements, I didn't build any units. Had a tough time finding slaves to steal. We didn't make any real progress towards being able to declare on anyone.
I have been doing 10% research. Switch to a scientist if that is the preference, I just don't like using a scientist in a 5CC, even though it is probably best.
I also wanted a friend. So we made peace with the Arabs and allied them against America. The hope was to get them to waste some units on each other, but the Arabs seem to be over matched. America has both iron and horses (I thought we had disconnected them both early enough that there wouldn't be too many) while the Arabs have neither. I hope this wasn't too big a mistake.
Here is the effect of the Great Library.
With anarchy and some city improvements, I didn't build any units. Had a tough time finding slaves to steal. We didn't make any real progress towards being able to declare on anyone.
I have been doing 10% research. Switch to a scientist if that is the preference, I just don't like using a scientist in a 5CC, even though it is probably best.
Aggie
Deity
Hmmm, nice thought about getting AI to kill each other, but we now don't have an AW anymore I'm afraid it wasn't clever to have a weak Arab nation declare on the Americans. Hopefully this won't hurt us in the long run. I guess that we have to follow this tactic with the two strongest AI in the game. Is that Zulu and America?
I'm afraid it wasn't clever to have a weak Arab nation declare on the Americans. Hopefully this won't hurt us in the long run. I guess that we have to follow this tactic with the two strongest AI in the game. Is that Zulu and America?They were about even in size, so on the surface it seemed fine. I don't know why I didn't check resources. Such an obvious thing to do, and really not the kind of mistake I usually make. Well, maybe not. I guess this falls into the category of "reckless." However, even if the Americans do well, I doubt that it will cause too many problems. As you noted, they have the Zulu for neighbors, and if America takes Arab lands, America and Zululand will be about equal.
Well I definately would not have done the Arab thing. In fact one of my biggest fears was that this kind of war would happen on it's own. What was the goal? To have them burn troops? Well the reason the tech pace is so slow is because they have choked themselves in units so now you will see the Americains starting to have $$ and moving in research. Also, if they run over the Arabs which I'm sure they will, they have the great wall and better land while Arabs have no resources, then we have one large civ to take on isolated on an Island. I really don't understand the thinking behind this move but we will just see how it plays out. Please do not do the same with Jap/Egypt. The Islands with 2 civs are our best shot for conquering as we will have an ally. We do want them to burn troops but only when we are ready to take advantage of it. As far as American Zulu equity we all know how well the AIs do at sea invasions. This balance will be no help to us in alliances.
EDIT: I think we should shift our dromon attention to the Americans ASAP and try to help the Arabs survive.
EDIT: I think we should shift our dromon attention to the Americans ASAP and try to help the Arabs survive.
turn 0 (250 AD): MM a bit to gain a whooping +1 gpt !!! yeeha ! you knew you could count on me ^^
turn 1 (260 AD): Japanese kill a spear that we (presumably) used to capture workers. it was attacked by an archer while on a hill, oh well. Arabs ask us to leave, but don't force us. war between arabs and americans, god those SoD fights are boring. Arabs seem to hold their ground, but spears/archers VS horses/swords will soon be an arab bloodbath =/
further bombings, hardly ever succeed =/ i try to help Arabs by weakening americans as much as possible.
Nicae => Duct
turn 2 (270 AD): Americans ask for peace, but we have a 18-turn treaty. Adria => Duct.
guys, i hope i'm not doing something terrible, but i'm going to disable the "animate battle" thing. i don't have much time to play civ, so spending it watching the AI fight is a bit boring =D i raise lux to make const happy while it finishes temple. i bomb some places, with good success. i put some dromons on "auto-bomb" where SoDs protect resources (eg.: zulu silks and horses)
turn 3 (280 AD): Mongols ask for peace, yeah, sure ^^ Americans are steamrolling over Arabs =/ more bombing.
turn 4 (290 AD): Const => Lib. then i'm thinking about starting SoZ. fortunately, my turn will end before we accumulate too many shields in it, so you guys can change it if you want. Caesarea => Duct. const still need lux to work all its tiles, ok, we're at -8gpt.
turn 5 (300 AD): Varna=> Duct. more bombing, half-successful
turn 6 (310 AD): the Americans are punishing the Arabs.
turn 7 (320 AD): we gain CoL. Const=>SoZ.
turn 8 (330 AD): great, Americans and Arabs signed peace. this means we can get back to AW 4 turns sooner, and they'll stop burning troops.
turn 9 (340 AD): an American ship slipped through blockade into Japan territory =/ i destroyed it asap, but probably too late.
turn 10 (350 AD): bombing cows near boston, moving ships in zululand to the horses to accelerate the bombing, move workers to improve Vatra now that Caes is fully improved (or so).
that's it, once again don't hit me too hard if i did something wrong please =P
turn 1 (260 AD): Japanese kill a spear that we (presumably) used to capture workers. it was attacked by an archer while on a hill, oh well. Arabs ask us to leave, but don't force us. war between arabs and americans, god those SoD fights are boring. Arabs seem to hold their ground, but spears/archers VS horses/swords will soon be an arab bloodbath =/
further bombings, hardly ever succeed =/ i try to help Arabs by weakening americans as much as possible.
Nicae => Duct
turn 2 (270 AD): Americans ask for peace, but we have a 18-turn treaty. Adria => Duct.
guys, i hope i'm not doing something terrible, but i'm going to disable the "animate battle" thing. i don't have much time to play civ, so spending it watching the AI fight is a bit boring =D i raise lux to make const happy while it finishes temple. i bomb some places, with good success. i put some dromons on "auto-bomb" where SoDs protect resources (eg.: zulu silks and horses)
turn 3 (280 AD): Mongols ask for peace, yeah, sure ^^ Americans are steamrolling over Arabs =/ more bombing.
turn 4 (290 AD): Const => Lib. then i'm thinking about starting SoZ. fortunately, my turn will end before we accumulate too many shields in it, so you guys can change it if you want. Caesarea => Duct. const still need lux to work all its tiles, ok, we're at -8gpt.
turn 5 (300 AD): Varna=> Duct. more bombing, half-successful
turn 6 (310 AD): the Americans are punishing the Arabs.
turn 7 (320 AD): we gain CoL. Const=>SoZ.
turn 8 (330 AD): great, Americans and Arabs signed peace. this means we can get back to AW 4 turns sooner, and they'll stop burning troops.
turn 9 (340 AD): an American ship slipped through blockade into Japan territory =/ i destroyed it asap, but probably too late.
turn 10 (350 AD): bombing cows near boston, moving ships in zululand to the horses to accelerate the bombing, move workers to improve Vatra now that Caes is fully improved (or so).
that's it, once again don't hit me too hard if i did something wrong please =P
Our largest stack of dromons was over in Zulu land, a couple turns off from the Americans. The hope was once a few other key Zulu tiles were disconnected to send the dromons over and help the Arabs. Part of the help would come in finally destroying the tile improvements in all of the coastal tiles. I didn't realize that this early on, unit costs would already be what was killing the economies of our opponents. I thought that had to do with pillaged tiles and no trading opportunities. I also somehow missed that the Americans had horses, and thought that their iron had been taken out early enough to limit their swordsmen, so I didn't expect it to be such an uneven fight. I didn't even consider Egypt/Japan because that fight would be so lopsided. Sorry about that decision though, next time I'll consult with the team before doin anything at all like that.
I hope I didn't sound testy everyone has different thoughts on these things and I wouldn't have been surprised if this war would have happened eventually on it's own (I think I set it to high AI aggression). I do think unit support can be an issue even this early. The Sid AI has lots of free unit support but if the tech pace is slow and they can't expand then their rapid production ability just drowns them in cheap units, I think they only get like 10 free/city but they produce over 100 even with only 4 cities. Bombarding just keeps them in deficit. The tech pace can be really slowed, I played a 1 city game like this as AW and I was the only one to physics in like 1960 or something (after going up to free artistry). If I had ignored FA and could have traded a bit I could have been fighting spears/LBs with cav and rifles which is exactly what I hope to do in this game.
We should discuss a strategy. I was thinking the following:
1. Keep in AW mode till we are ready for our first invasion. I think we will need all size 12 cities with markets for this. I would think we need about 40 ground troops to start this and Jap/Egypt as obvious 1st target, I'd say we may want to wait for Pikes and MI for this although I am a very conservative warmonger.
2. Don't trade lit (which we can't anyway if we stay AW) but I just wanted to mention it as the AI can rea\search this very late and it helps slow research for them to lack it.
3. For invasion we first take out cities that can be isolated by bombardment like Tokyo and the one north of Tokyo to even Jap/Egypt a bit then sign in Egypt. Coastal hit and run is a great tactic with dromons and lots of mountain landing spots. We must take the whole island on this move. Also, I wouldn't kill the last troops until we get a leader (but don't load it), we will need a army for the next invasion. After invasion we can plop down a 6th city which will give us horses and 2 more lux. I'd keep this as a throw away with just harbor.
4. Next up america/arabs. This is why I'm so concerned about arab survival. If we get a RoP with the arabs we can land and establish an army for this war. Sign up the Arabs and help them take down the hords of American troops then go for the cities, then turn on the Arabs.
5. Finally this isolated civs. Mongols seem like the first target. We might want to try to out research the AIs up to rifles for this although for some cities we can knock them down by doing coastal hit and run. We will need to be at least to Magnetism anyway to move the army for cover.
6. Wonders: not of great importance but I wouldn't mind trying to snag copis and Newtons in Constantinople. We could then really out research the AIs for taking on the isolated islands.
Anyway those are my thoughts. Could everyone chime in with your thoughts on strategy, conquest will not be easy with only 5/6 cities on Sid so we should have a coherent plan.
We should discuss a strategy. I was thinking the following:
1. Keep in AW mode till we are ready for our first invasion. I think we will need all size 12 cities with markets for this. I would think we need about 40 ground troops to start this and Jap/Egypt as obvious 1st target, I'd say we may want to wait for Pikes and MI for this although I am a very conservative warmonger.
2. Don't trade lit (which we can't anyway if we stay AW) but I just wanted to mention it as the AI can rea\search this very late and it helps slow research for them to lack it.
3. For invasion we first take out cities that can be isolated by bombardment like Tokyo and the one north of Tokyo to even Jap/Egypt a bit then sign in Egypt. Coastal hit and run is a great tactic with dromons and lots of mountain landing spots. We must take the whole island on this move. Also, I wouldn't kill the last troops until we get a leader (but don't load it), we will need a army for the next invasion. After invasion we can plop down a 6th city which will give us horses and 2 more lux. I'd keep this as a throw away with just harbor.
4. Next up america/arabs. This is why I'm so concerned about arab survival. If we get a RoP with the arabs we can land and establish an army for this war. Sign up the Arabs and help them take down the hords of American troops then go for the cities, then turn on the Arabs.
5. Finally this isolated civs. Mongols seem like the first target. We might want to try to out research the AIs up to rifles for this although for some cities we can knock them down by doing coastal hit and run. We will need to be at least to Magnetism anyway to move the army for cover.
6. Wonders: not of great importance but I wouldn't mind trying to snag copis and Newtons in Constantinople. We could then really out research the AIs for taking on the isolated islands.
Anyway those are my thoughts. Could everyone chime in with your thoughts on strategy, conquest will not be easy with only 5/6 cities on Sid so we should have a coherent plan.
The reason I though unit support wouldn't be a big deal is that every civ gets something like 36 free units, plus 12 for every city I think. With so few cities, the 36 free per civ is of proportionally greater value than for a larger civ, which led me to think that support costs would be inconsequential when compared to that lost to unimproved tiles.
By the way, I didn't take anything you said too seriously. We're playing a game, and a little testiness, real or percieved, will not offend me.
By the way, I didn't take anything you said too seriously. We're playing a game, and a little testiness, real or percieved, will not offend me.
Save
Complants:
Why are roading the furs?
Using a scientist got gpt costs from -9 to -3 right away
Don't like that America got to that island to their south
No auto bombardment, the AI doesn't know how to bombard, thats why they don't use it in the first place
Kill count:
Boats:9
8 American
1 Arab
Disconnect lots of land
Cities:
Constantinople:SoZ in 1 turn Added 1 worker there
Adrianople:10spt, 5 turns for 2 warriors and a boat, scientist there
Nicaea:Can't get to 10spt, therefore 5spt, 10 turns for 2 warriors and a boat, growth every 4 turns, check it in 3 turns for 10spt
Caesarea:Max size of 9, ~40% corruption, building a court will be above 15spt after its done
Varna:Aqueduct in 1 turn, last national worker near it, either join it there or at Adrianople
Currently making +5gpt
Japan/Egypt/Zulu/Mongol/Inca are all not doing anything
America is trying to get off their island, trying to reinforce their island city
Caught Arabs trying to go there too
Boats are in groups bombarding any square that is advailable starting with food squares
Any boat that is alone is on hunting patrol, move around make sure there are no boats around
Have 1 boat almost at America with two warriors on it for worker stealing, try their iron
About half of the Zulu attack force has moved on to Mongols, Zululand is not rebuilding their land except for in the south east at their iron and horses
Complants:
Why are roading the furs?
Using a scientist got gpt costs from -9 to -3 right away
Don't like that America got to that island to their south
No auto bombardment, the AI doesn't know how to bombard, thats why they don't use it in the first place
Kill count:
Boats:9
8 American
1 Arab
Disconnect lots of land
Cities:
Constantinople:SoZ in 1 turn Added 1 worker there
Adrianople:10spt, 5 turns for 2 warriors and a boat, scientist there
Nicaea:Can't get to 10spt, therefore 5spt, 10 turns for 2 warriors and a boat, growth every 4 turns, check it in 3 turns for 10spt
Caesarea:Max size of 9, ~40% corruption, building a court will be above 15spt after its done
Varna:Aqueduct in 1 turn, last national worker near it, either join it there or at Adrianople
Currently making +5gpt
Japan/Egypt/Zulu/Mongol/Inca are all not doing anything
America is trying to get off their island, trying to reinforce their island city
Caught Arabs trying to go there too
Boats are in groups bombarding any square that is advailable starting with food squares
Any boat that is alone is on hunting patrol, move around make sure there are no boats around
Have 1 boat almost at America with two warriors on it for worker stealing, try their iron
About half of the Zulu attack force has moved on to Mongols, Zululand is not rebuilding their land except for in the south east at their iron and horses
errrrrrrrrr
furs: because this lone slave was there when i got the game, and i really had no clue what he was doing over there, so decided he would at least road the luxes for when (if) the age of trade starts.
as for the scientist:
furs: because this lone slave was there when i got the game, and i really had no clue what he was doing over there, so decided he would at least road the luxes for when (if) the age of trade starts.
as for the scientist:
i decided that we needed const growing more than a few coins, especially considering our treasure.Percy said:
The worker was there to colonize the iron, since we don't have a source connected at the moment, and I didn't see any reason to wait. I should have mentioned that, but I couldn't really think of any other reason for it to be there other than a colony so I didn't bother. But no harm done, or maybe that was even good, as we don't need iron hooked up yet, and I guess we are still doing the warrior steals workers thing? I sort of abandoned that idea, as I wasn't having any luck finding workers. Three or four were captured in my turns.
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