[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[ditb]

Not really. But one of the feature list items for phase 2 is a "FfH editor". What this is an excel spreadsheet with all of the xml values in it. I don't typically mess with the xml for the mod, instead I do everything in excel and then write a macro to export the spreadsheet data to the xml form that Civ4 wants. My desire is to put this all in a common xls file that anyone can load and look at data in the mod. Even better they can make a change in spreadsheet and run the macro to change their version of FfH.

Want your favorite leader to be have the Organized trait instead of Creative? Change it in the spreadsheet and run the macro. Want to reduce the strength of Fire Elementals? change it in the spreadsheet and run the macro.

So this is being built into phase 2, but it doesn't exist in phase 1.

Thank you very much for the reply. I couldn't write XML to save my life, but I can handle updating a spreadsheet. Very cool!

Thanks again!

Dave

 

[Kael]

Wait, Kael, I'm curious, what is this issue that's completely out of your control that's preventing you from releasing 1.0? (sorry if it's been said before)

Sorry, all I can say is that its an event outside of my control.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Is this supposed to be phase 3 then FFH for expressionists?
Here you have it back, hehe

 

[Kael]

Is this supposed to be phase 3 then FFH for expressionists?
Here you have it back, hehe

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

[drowzaknafein]

Excellent Mod, I have been playing it the last few days. I have been going through much of the information, but was wondering is there a booklet or something explaining some of the neat features within the mod. i tried searching for it, but there is plenty of posts for Fall of Heaven! Thanks in advance.

-Ever Learning
Zakanfein

 

[Lunargent]

The biggest problem is that the AI civs are using Warriors as city defense WAY too late in the game. It is very common for me to have taken out >6 cities with a couple of non-rushed Axemen because the AI has nothing but Warriors defending. The fix I propose is to make Archer's much easier to get. I would replace Militia with Archery. Once the AI gets Archers they become far harder to take. They can also defend themselves much better against Barbs. As it is, I almost never have Archers until I have Axemen and a religion special, and that doesn't make a lot of sense. I'd take the old Archery tech slot and add in Blacksmithing. A dead end that allows construction of Barracks (now called Blacksmiths) and its units. That way you can get Bronze Working to find copper and cut down forests, but not also give the military advantage without having gotten Warfare. And if you don't have Copper you don't have to get the tech.

Second, copper is too important in the early game. With copper you can get Form of the Titan and Axemen really early. Without it the best early unit you can get is the Drown (see below). To simplify, I've never had anything but a trivial win if I have copper start near me, and my only real loss came when I didn't have it. The fix above would help, but I'd also change Form of the Titan to require Marble/Stone regardless.

Third, the Drown are too good and too quick. The cost increase will help, but I think you also need to make OO require a different tech. It takes 3 techs to get OO, and 6 (with 1 potentially free from Philosophy) for the other two. I think you've talked about adding Philosophy as a requirement, and that would be fine, or something else like Cartography and Optics. With that and the Drown cost increase I think it is balanced.

Fourth, in the mid-game Conjurers are way too effective, much more so than mages. Even the already announced balance changes won't be enough I feel. As long as they are stacked with a couple decent defending units they aren't going to be attacked directly, the elementals are still just attackers that never have to heal. Until the Phase 2 changes I'd recommend dropping both the elemental strength and conjurer strength by an additional 1 beyond the proposed change. Or, another option would be to add a couple extra techs pre-conjurer. Sorcery would be obvious, but again, I'd just skip mages until Conjurers. Something like Unquestioning Obedience instead of Polytheism would make it a tougher choice.

As Kael said, I'm working on the next iteration of th tech tree, and I agree with alot of what you said.

I reference tech levels by what I call 'teirs'. A teir one tech is a starting tech, a teir 4 tech can be reached by researching 4 different things, etc. I use that as a guide to how powerfull of a unit a tech should unlock.

The way I have it now, Archers and hunters are both teir 3, and axemen are teir 4. Militia is gone, but I've not yet decided where to put the city garrison promotion. Drown are powerfull, but they are teir 6, so the lack of a copper requirement should work out with their cost increase. As Kael said, I want to have something available as a warrior upgrade that is available without copper. Mages are at teir 6, and conjurers are at teir 9. Maybe they'll need to be bumped up higher, but for now that should be good. Here's a cropped version for illustrative purposes. Keep in mind that it's all subject to change.

 

[strategyonly]

I have been playing this MOD since its arrival here, and it keeps getting better and better, but i have noticed two crash errors, and i have installed most recent and patch (95g): when a city reaches APOCALYPSE and Wrath Unleashed, each and everytime my puter crashes still. I have not played the other Armageddon except Blight it works ok.
Also i like tons and tons of promotion advances and tech advances, the more the better, try incorporating SEVO's and XX Centry tech and promotions, also i play approximately 6-8 hours a day just on CIV 4, so if help is needed in just playing and game and seeing whats wrong let me know, thx strategyonly FOREVER

 

[AljayBoy]

With the argument over the strength of the Drown, and how you are pretty much screwed if you don't have access to copper for the axeman going on recently, I thought I'd point out this unit, a Stone Warrior, created by eddieballgame. It is a warrior with strength 4 (although I'd change it to 3 for FfH, so it provides a better defence than Warriors against the Drown/Axeman but is not a direct alternative) and you need the tech Masonary and either/or the resource Marble or Stone.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162822

I think adding this unit in would help against the barbs and also take the edge off the enemy Drown and Axemen units. The chances are good that you would discover either Stone or Marble (if not Copper) early in the game to ensure none of your neighbours who do have Copper will over-run you.

Also wondering if you would incorporate TheLopez' Military Bases and/or his Mercenaries mods into FfH? Think that would be damn quality to play.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162016 - Mercenaries Mod

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154418 - Military Bases Mod

I have downloaded these mods but haven't played them yet (wonder why . . . )

Oh, also wondering if the stealth bomber was re-skinned, or just made it all black, then it could look like a giant bat creature-thingy?? Which would do as an air unit until we got some dragons to play with. No? oh well then i'll shut up then

 

[Kael]

With the argument over the strength of the Drown, and how you are pretty much screwed if you don't have access to copper for the axeman going on recently, I thought I'd point out this unit, a Stone Warrior, created by eddieballgame. It is a warrior with strength 4 (although I'd change it to 3 for FfH, so it provides a better defence than Warriors against the Drown/Axeman but is not a direct alternative) and you need the tech Masonary and either/or the resource Marble or Stone.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162822

I think adding this unit in would help against the barbs and also take the edge off the enemy Drown and Axemen units. The chances are good that you would discover either Stone or Marble (if not Copper) early in the game to ensure none of your neighbours who do have Copper will over-run you.

Also wondering if you would incorporate TheLopez' Military Bases and/or his Mercenaries mods into FfH? Think that would be damn quality to play.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=162016 - Mercenaries Mod

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154418 - Military Bases Mod

I have downloaded these mods but haven't played them yet (wonder why . . . )

Oh, also wondering if the stealth bomber was re-skinned, or just made it all black, then it could look like a giant bat creature-thingy?? Which would do as an air unit until we got some dragons to play with. No? oh well then i'll shut up then

TheLopez's mercenary mod is currently the only external mod being considered for phase 2. TheLopez did incredible work on it.

 

[carebear101]

I porpose the idea of city guardian (e.g. guardian spirit, spirit of ancestor or whatever you can call them)

Them are created when a city is formed. And have 0 mobility (Is this possible?)

The idea is to have them real strong, say 10 strength, and growing to 20 max when a city grows to 10 pop.

This can avoid early rush and the AI can handle the barbarian. The barbarian is still important as they can disturb the development of a city, but NOT to destroy them!

This also discourage early rush by human plaer and encourage tech development for mixture unit assault.

 

[tombeef]

I porpose the idea of city guardian (e.g. guardian spirit, spirit of ancestor or whatever you can call them)

Them are created when a city is formed. And have 0 mobility (Is this possible?)

The idea is to have them real strong, say 10 strength, and growing to 20 max when a city grows to 10 pop.

This can avoid early rush and the AI can handle the barbarian. The barbarian is still important as they can disturb the development of a city, but NOT to destroy them!

This also discourage early rush by human plaer and encourage tech development for mixture unit assault.

Interesting, but I think 10 is too strong for an early game. Also, this would insure that every city has at least one great defender, possibly taking away some startegy and risks, not to mention prolonging wars, and pretty much destroying any early wars. It would also tip you off, since you know now that every city has to have one.
This could be an interesting concept with some fine tuning, but I would be hesitant to put it in. You can always use the shield wall.

 

[tombeef]

Sorry, all I can say is that its an event outside of my control.

Oh come on we all now it. Chuck Norris came in and stole your CIV IV disk.

 

[lost_civantares]

say 10 strength, and growing to 20 max when a city grows to 10 pop.

That would enable the player to go and steal a worker or two, run back home, and not care how the AI would react, they'd be impervious to attack. Addtionally consider how high 20 strength is. That is n't reached for ages in the game, so to put that in would really reduce war (and all the fun that comes with it).

 

[Oran-ge]

Oh come on we all now it. Chuck Norris came in and stole your CIV IV disk.

Hey, if that's it, we'll all go and beat him up for it. Of course, we'd all be obliterated in the process, but anything to try to get this released faster.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Just to let you know if it hasn't been said:
Titutia the halfing needs a dialogue fix when demanding tribute from an equal.
Now back to my flurries!

 

[Kael]

Excellent Mod, I have been playing it the last few days. I have been going through much of the information, but was wondering is there a booklet or something explaining some of the neat features within the mod. i tried searching for it, but there is plenty of posts for Fall of Heaven! Thanks in advance.

-Ever Learning
Zakanfein

No not really. I am trying to make the pedia entries better for 1.0 and Miracle was good enough to write a ton of new FfH specific hints that will be included in 1.0.

 

[Kael]

Oh come on we all now it. Chuck Norris came in and stole your CIV IV disk.

WHO told you!!!!

 

[Kael]

Just to let you know if it hasn't been said:
Titutia the halfing needs a dialogue fix when demanding tribute from an equal.
Now back to my flurries!

You are correct, I will fix it for 1.0.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

It's Buttontime again, Kael!

 

[Pegasos]

It's Buttontime again, Kael!

Yepyep. Use that fancy art your creating. I like peeing swords.