[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[Kael]

Hi Kael,

I apologize if this has been asked/answered before (I try to keep up with the discussions, bu there are so many new posts, I miss whole pages in just a day!) Question: will unique units by race be included in 080? I know you have unique units planned (and already have unique units by religion) but was curious if the race uu's would appear in 080 (thinking of some of the great undead, dwarf, elf skins posted recently). Just curious. Thanks!

0.80 will include 2 heroes for each religion. These are unique powerful units that you have to have the state religion for. 8 of them have the "Hero" promotion, meaning they gain 1xp every turn, up to 100 xp. Making them get powerful very fast. The other 2 are spellcasters and they have unique spell abilites. One is a conjurer with the the Twincast promotion, meaning he summons double the normal amount of creatures. The other is a mage with a unique spell and his fireballs go 2 spaces further than a normal mage.

Races aren't strictly by religion. Although Kilmorph did create the dwarves, and most worship her, Maros is a dwarf and one of the Order heroes. Maros was expected to follow in his father's footsteps and be the champion of Kilmorph but turned his back on that religion and joined the Order after his father was killed.

When the civilizations come out more world history will be revealed and why exactly these people are at war. The war is ideological, not racial.

I guess, as I said a few posts ago, Im not a big fan of completeness. I don't want all the elves on this side of the conflict, or all the dwarves on that side. Complexity, detail, a world with real characters is the goal. But I know its a lofty goal.

 

[svalovec]

A few things that keep bugging me.

(I haven't read pages 31 thru 50 so if this is a repetition you know why. I havent been reading for the last week since version 070 came out for obvious reasons)

1. A major flavour boost could be obtained by removing the roman calandar based year system. ie no BC/AD bizzo and some relevant religious timeframe substituted.

2. Get rid of the ability for dwarves to rush production and replace it with the ability to mine mountain tiles with an increased chance of new resource discovery.

3. The multi cultural (multi civ) factor of cities is something that is yet to be interestingly exploited.

btw I made a simple but fun scenario today for my better half (i only just got the computer back). will post tomorrow with a link to file planet or whatever when i am not so sobriety deprived.

Keep up the good work and may I applaude your desire to avoid completeness and simplicity in favour of having to think and messy complexity.

 

[Kael]

A few things that keep bugging me.

(I haven't read pages 31 thru 50 so if this is a repetition you know why. I havent been reading for the last week since version 070 came out for obvious reasons)

1. A major flavor boost could be obtained by removing the roman calandar based year system. ie no BC/AD bizzo and some relevant religious timeframe substituted.

That will be done in 0.80. I agree with you 100%.

2. Get rid of the ability for dwarves to rush production and replace it with the ability to mine mountain tiles with an increased chance of new resource discovery.

I plan on differentiating the land types based on the religions. I want a better link between the religions and the world. Be that from tile changes based on the alignment of the owning religion (a ashen veil grasslands will be darker than a fellowship grasslands which is darker than an order grassland) to exactly as you suggest actual production/food/gold production differences. Until I get there I will leave the dwarves as they are, but I think you are right, once I can do some of the land functions I want I will probably remove this ability.

3. The multi cultural (multi civ) factor of cities is something that is yet to be interestingly exploited.

btw I made a simple but fun scenario today for my better half (i only just got the computer back). will post tomorrow with a link to file planet or whatever when i am not so sobriety deprived.

Yeah, I have all of the Civ functions pushed to phase 2 so they are being deliberatly ignored. They are all designed, but there is a lot of special functions they need to work that have yet to be written. Once I start designing civs for the mod I will be sure to dig into the cross culture aspects of the cities.

Keep up the good work and may I applaude your desire to avoid completeness and simplicity in favour of having to think and messy complexity.

Blizzard said there is an easy and hard way to do game balance. The easy way is to give all the different factions the same abilities and just call them different things (one faction get fireball, another gets cone of cold, another gets lightning bolt, etc etc). The harder way is to give the factions different abilities and to somehow make it all even out in the end.

We will see, thats why feedback from you folks is so important.

 

[MechaAngelus]

hey, whenever i try to build 'wrath unleashed', the game crashes.

ill hear the godzilla cry thing


but then it will crash.


is that what the thing is suposed to do?

 

[Kael]

hey, whenever i try to build 'wrath unleashed', the game crashes.

ill hear the godzilla cry thing


but then it will crash.


is that what the thing is suposed to do?

In all fairness I did say to beware the Avatar of Wrath.

But no, its not supposed to do that. It will be fixed in 0.80 (which will be released Friday).

 

[bluevti]

Kael,

Great work, Fall from Heaven mod is a lot of fun to play. One problem im getting is that when I play the game in hotseat mode we have trouble implementing the civic/religion relevent to the character. First attempt the elves couldnt implement their way of the leaves ( or whatever it is) and then 2nd Game the Dwarves couldnt implement their one (but that worked first game). Once it has been researched, it asks to implement it, if you say yes, the dialogue box disappears but nothing happens. It isnt selectable in the civics screen. Any ideas, or just wait for the next release ?

Again, great work, if you're rather busy and can't look/reply thats cool

 

[BlakTooth]

Like others have said, there are wayyyy too many unit production buildings.

I understand the reasoning behind this (to keep someone from massing an army of national units too quickly), but at the moment there's barely enough time to research what you need, let alone make all the buildings.


Here's my recommendation to condense the buildings:


Beastmaster + Druid: require Grove

Marksman + Flurry: require Bowyer

War Chariot + Immortal: require Colosseum

Camel Archer + War Elephants: require Beastiary

Paladin + Knight: require Castle

Monk + Priest: require Cathedral

Eidolon + Demon Summoner: require Abbatoir

Inquisitor: requires Abbatoir OR Cathedral

Shield Wall + Phalanx: requires Blacksmith

Heavy Crossbowman + Arquebus: require Machinist's Shop

Beserker, Shadow, Saboteur, Archmage: no change


This recommendation allows more than one unit to be produced by each advanced unit building. This allows much more flexibility with unit production.

More importantly, this change will greatly increase the fun factor of the mod, because nobody wants to mass produce unit-creation buildings. They want to make units!


Now, this change will require that multiple techs can be used to create the same building (for example, either celerity or craftsmanship would allow the creation of a bowyer).

Also, some buildings will have little/ no use now. They should probably be revamped or cut.



Even if the worst possible outcome occurs, and national units are too easy to create, research/build times can simply be increased instead of adding more buildings.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I like your thinking BlakTooth

 

[Dragonlord]

Oh, and 2 minor niggles from playtesting:

1. The Monk unit has no attack sounds
2. The Public Baths and Tavern buildings have no build icons

Keep up the great work!

Oh, and thanks for adressing the Mithril issue..

There is something very screwy about the Public Baths and the Tavern: not only are there no build icons, but building either of these totally messes up the City Screen of the city building them: hard to describe, but most of the functions of the City Screen are disabled/not visible.
Better take a look at this, Kael - I've tried this a number of times, and the City Screen is always messed up, I think it's a bug.

 

[Kidinnu]

I don't have any problems building taverns... My Order civilization didn't need public baths, thank you.

 

[loki1232]

Kael,

Great work, Fall from Heaven mod is a lot of fun to play. One problem im getting is that when I play the game in hotseat mode we have trouble implementing the civic/religion relevent to the character. First attempt the elves couldnt implement their way of the leaves ( or whatever it is) and then 2nd Game the Dwarves couldnt implement their one (but that worked first game). Once it has been researched, it asks to implement it, if you say yes, the dialogue box disappears but nothing happens. It isnt selectable in the civics screen. Any ideas, or just wait for the next release ?

Again, great work, if you're rather busy and can't look/reply thats cool

If you even got it to work in hotseat you're luckier than the rest of us.
As to the religion specific civics, I have found no problem with them. One thing to remember is that you have to be worshipping thhe right religion.

 

[belkot]

i don’t know did anyone write it before, but in mine last game two features don’t works correctly:
1. Blood of Pheonix make ALL my units immortal. All units (except Immortals) which I've build after that (also in city with BoP) was without this promotion. Also this units which has immortal before death lost this promotion.
2. Summoning - only works fire elemental, even with proper technology (Ether Call?) i cannot summon air and earth elemental.

I like idea of Underworld very much – it’s reminds me two planes (Arcanus and Myrror) in Master of Magic. If it possible to create underworld/hell/ether plane as second map (like in ToT) it would make this excellent mod even better.

 

[Dragonlord]

I don't have any problems building taverns... My Order civilization didn't need public baths, thank you.

Strange.. maybe this is another instance of difficulties with using the Harbaal- Civs. Everything else works fine, though.
Can others with/without the fantasy civs by Harbaal confirm whether or not their Taverns and Public Baths have build icons?

 

[Kael]

Kael,

Great work, Fall from Heaven mod is a lot of fun to play. One problem im getting is that when I play the game in hotseat mode we have trouble implementing the civic/religion relevent to the character. First attempt the elves couldnt implement their way of the leaves ( or whatever it is) and then 2nd Game the Dwarves couldnt implement their one (but that worked first game). Once it has been researched, it asks to implement it, if you say yes, the dialogue box disappears but nothing happens. It isnt selectable in the civics screen. Any ideas, or just wait for the next release ?

Again, great work, if you're rather busy and can't look/reply thats cool

No mods work in hotseat mode (not even the ones that come with the game). I didn't even realize it was possible to load the game in hotseat mode.

 

[Kael]

Like others have said, there are wayyyy too many unit production buildings.

I understand the reasoning behind this (to keep someone from massing an army of national units too quickly), but at the moment there's barely enough time to research what you need, let alone make all the buildings.


Here's my recommendation to condense the buildings:


Beastmaster + Druid: require Grove

Marksman + Flurry: require Bowyer

War Chariot + Immortal: require Colosseum

Camel Archer + War Elephants: require Beastiary

Paladin + Knight: require Castle

Monk + Priest: require Cathedral

Eidolon + Demon Summoner: require Abbatoir

Inquisitor: requires Abbatoir OR Cathedral

Shield Wall + Phalanx: requires Blacksmith

Heavy Crossbowman + Arquebus: require Machinist's Shop

Beserker, Shadow, Saboteur, Archmage: no change


This recommendation allows more than one unit to be produced by each advanced unit building. This allows much more flexibility with unit production.

More importantly, this change will greatly increase the fun factor of the mod, because nobody wants to mass produce unit-creation buildings. They want to make units!


Now, this change will require that multiple techs can be used to create the same building (for example, either celerity or craftsmanship would allow the creation of a bowyer).

Also, some buildings will have little/ no use now. They should probably be revamped or cut.



Even if the worst possible outcome occurs, and national units are too easy to create, research/build times can simply be increased instead of adding more buildings.

The plan is to get rid of all the t4 unit creation buildings. Instead the unit will have to be a certain level in order to recieve its final upgrade. Let me think about implementing your idea until that point.

 

[Kael]

i don’t know did anyone write it before, but in mine last game two features don’t works correctly:
1. Blood of Pheonix make ALL my units immortal. All units (except Immortals) which I've build after that (also in city with BoP) was without this promotion. Also this units which has immortal before death lost this promotion.
2. Summoning - only works fire elemental, even with proper technology (Ether Call?) i cannot summon air and earth elemental.

I like idea of Underworld very much – it’s reminds me two planes (Arcanus and Myrror) in Master of Magic. If it possible to create underworld/hell/ether plane as second map (like in ToT) it would make this excellent mod even better.

That is exactly how Blood of the Phoenix is supposed to work, it is a one time assignment of the immortal promotion to all units you currently have. In 0.80 it has been boosted a bit to also give the Medic promotion to all units built in its city so it has a long term effect, but the immortality effect is still one time.

The Unit that will summon Air, Earth and Water elementals (the Elementalist) isn't in the game yet, which is why you can't summon any of those other types. You must have noticed Air and Earth elementals both exist in the Worldbuilder, but I haven't made the elementalist yet (I have some technical issues around getting the computer to use the appropriate elemental).

 

[Kael]

Strange.. maybe this is another instance of difficulties with using the Harbaal- Civs. Everything else works fine, though.
Can others with/without the fantasy civs by Harbaal confirm whether or not their Taverns and Public Baths have build icons?

If by build icons you mean the picture that appears at the end of the little progress bar underneath the city picture, then you are right. Most buildings don't have build icons and they are instead replaced with a white exclamation point on a black background.

And I will look into the public baths and tavern problem.

 

[Dragonlord]

If by build icons you mean the picture that appears at the end of the little progress bar underneath the city picture, then you are right. Most buildings don't have build icons and they are instead replaced with a white exclamation point on a black background.

And I will look into the public baths and tavern problem.

No, I mean in the City Screen, the icons in the bottom where you choose what to produce - many of those are used several times in your mod, but the Tavern and Public Baths are blank in my screen. Swinging the mouse pointer over the blanks shows what they are and they can be clicked for building normally, but it somehow seems to screw up the city screen afterwards, as I described: if one of my cities is building the Tavern, for instance, and I access the city during the build, the City Screen doesn't work properly until the building is finished.
If, as Kidinnu indicated, it's working properly for others, it may indeed be a problem with Harbaals fantasy civs, though I don't understand how... if that turns out to be the case, I could PM him.

 

[edu2003mdq]

Strange.. maybe this is another instance of difficulties with using the Harbaal- Civs. Everything else works fine, though.
Can others with/without the fantasy civs by Harbaal confirm whether or not their Taverns and Public Baths have build icons?

I haven't had any icon problems after building Public Baths. As for Taverns I haven't built any yet.

 

[Kael]

No, I mean in the City Screen, the icons in the bottom where you choose what to produce - many of those are used several times in your mod, but the Tavern and Public Baths are blank in my screen. Swinging the mouse pointer over the blanks shows what they are and they can be clicked for building normally, but it somehow seems to screw up the city screen afterwards, as I described: if one of my cities is building the Tavern, for instance, and I access the city during the build, the City Screen doesn't work properly until the building is finished.
If, as Kidinnu indicated, it's working properly for others, it may indeed be a problem with Harbaals fantasy civs, though I don't understand how... if that turns out to be the case, I could PM him.

I would be really surprised if it had something to do with Haarbals civ mod, the two things should be unrelated. I would suspect that you are have a file corruption issue with the two images. If you have a dds viewer you could go into Mods/Fall from Heaven 070/Asstes/art/interface/buttons/buildings/tavern.dds and publicbaths.dds and check them out. Otherwise you may want to redownload the mod.