I was thinking, perhaps you could class the lowest type of werewolf as an animal. It would make beastmasters potentially more useful in the later game, every civ could therefore obtain werewolves and perhaps you could even put them in the carnival with the rest of the animals.
[MOD] Fall from Heaven
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Chalid
Black Dragon
I think a technologigal victory condition is a must be. The reason is not that i want to win this way, the reason is, as also stated in many many threads, that it is the only victory condition the AI can properly handle. If there is no technological victory the game will end with a) Player wins b) someone winning a score victory c) Player gets crushed and the game ends. So there is no: "ohoho that guy is near to victory .. i have to do something."
Domination, Conquest and Cultural will not be archived by the AI and this means that without the technological victory condition there is not very much pressure to rush for a victory in the endgame.
The guys who do not wan't to loose a game this way always will have the posibility to uncheck this victory, but i myself prefer that the AI gets a chance. So im looking forward to some kind of spaceship. If you need a nice victory screen for a mastery spell or something let me know... im quite adept at drawning ritual-circles.
Personally I find it completely anti-fun..
so what if the AI can handle it better. you're in the middle of a good game, having fun with late game units and suddenly someone wins. bah.
I suppose its ok if you can avert catastrophe by destroying the enemy city in which XXX is being built, but the AI won't be able to handle THAT, so whats the point.
Also, I'm not sure I understand the need to fiddle around with the tech tree. what do you gain by dividing it to to trunks? dunno, sounds redundant to me..
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Hm alright, and regarding armaggedon spells, well, I reckon they could be more powerful.. I got my mithril golem killed by a couple of heavy crossbowmen and some mercenaries :/
And spells like the one that reduces pop and destroys land and such, well, I never tried them because I couldn't see the point.. I think I missed the part where it says they only affect enemy territory and enemy cities.
a big kickass endgame unit for each religion would be nice
* Perhaps a tree-ent elder council for elves.. 10 incredibly powerful ents that come with shock 2 and cover 2 promotions and can bombard cities (throwing-huge-boulders-at-the-orthanc style) for 100% of the defence bonus in one bombard action.
* Mithril golem for dwarves is perfect I reckon it should be the strongest unit by far (like 200 str), but slow and without any special abilities, and perhaps very limited ability to heal.
* Demon Lord for veil, which is incredibly powerful, can teleport across good distances and comes with the inquisitor abilities and the immortal promotion.
I'd say Avenging Angels or something like that for the order but I reckon they're not 'good' as such.. so perhaps something else.. maybe the order endgame unit should be a 'Righteous Crusade', and when you finish building it you get a +20xp to all your units and all units you train from that moment on.
Octopus lords should get some kind of crazy.. well actually they should get an octopus lord
Maybe it could be an insane spellcaster water unit with spells that have 100 movement, but pretty weak physically (still much much stronger than any other regular unit).
He could just sit in the sea and destroy cities by remote
These bastards ought to be able to win you the game almost single handedly
so what if the AI can handle it better. you're in the middle of a good game, having fun with late game units and suddenly someone wins. bah.
I suppose its ok if you can avert catastrophe by destroying the enemy city in which XXX is being built, but the AI won't be able to handle THAT, so whats the point.
Also, I'm not sure I understand the need to fiddle around with the tech tree. what do you gain by dividing it to to trunks? dunno, sounds redundant to me..
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Hm alright, and regarding armaggedon spells, well, I reckon they could be more powerful.. I got my mithril golem killed by a couple of heavy crossbowmen and some mercenaries :/
And spells like the one that reduces pop and destroys land and such, well, I never tried them because I couldn't see the point.. I think I missed the part where it says they only affect enemy territory and enemy cities.
a big kickass endgame unit for each religion would be nice
* Perhaps a tree-ent elder council for elves.. 10 incredibly powerful ents that come with shock 2 and cover 2 promotions and can bombard cities (throwing-huge-boulders-at-the-orthanc style) for 100% of the defence bonus in one bombard action.
* Mithril golem for dwarves is perfect
I reckon it should be the strongest unit by far (like 200 str), but slow and without any special abilities, and perhaps very limited ability to heal.* Demon Lord for veil, which is incredibly powerful, can teleport across good distances and comes with the inquisitor abilities and the immortal promotion.
I'd say Avenging Angels or something like that for the order but I reckon they're not 'good' as such.. so perhaps something else.. maybe the order endgame unit should be a 'Righteous Crusade', and when you finish building it you get a +20xp to all your units and all units you train from that moment on.
Octopus lords should get some kind of crazy.. well actually they should get an octopus lord
Maybe it could be an insane spellcaster water unit with spells that have 100 movement, but pretty weak physically (still much much stronger than any other regular unit).
He could just sit in the sea and destroy cities by remote
These bastards ought to be able to win you the game almost single handedly
Lightzy said:
You can still continue the game after a victory, but of course you wont get any more points for the highscore.
And there are players that dont want to win EVERY game by crushing every single unit on the whole planet.
And cultural victory is after certain point simply waiting 200+ turns for that stupid city to get 50000points of culture. (That was better in civ3 where you had either one city with lots of cul or a certain amount of culture global.)
I agree with that. Its armagedon and dont cost 5000 production for nothing...
for 5000 production you can build a lot of units...
Same for me. I think that would hurt me more than them...
But I think 200 is too much, you wouldnt be able to defeat him without another armagedon unit. Sure it should be strong but it wouldnt be fun there is NO WAY to destroy it without an other Armagedon unit.
40-50 Strenght would be fine IMO
Edit: There could be 100+ strenght units but these would have to be limitet to a certain terain. Like a giant squid for OO that can only move in ocean squares
Perhas the avatar of Wrath should have like 200 strength but not be able to heal- that'd guarantee a good rampage before he's finally overwhelmed.
And perhaps if the mithril golem is made uber strong, it could be made unable to leave your cultural borders and not recieve defencive bonus'.
And perhaps if the mithril golem is made uber strong, it could be made unable to leave your cultural borders and not recieve defencive bonus'.
loki1232
Loki
kevjm said:
Wow I really like this idea. What if there was also a Werewolf Slaying promotion available which gave you +40% vs. Werewolves, but also made that specific unit immune to lycantropy.
Glad you like the idea 
what do you think of a clay golem which doubles as a worker?
Would be a worker which can defend itself pretty much, perhaps the AI would actually start using these in the late game and it'd solve the whole not improving terrain problem? don't know if it actually would do this or not...
what do you think of a clay golem which doubles as a worker?Would be a worker which can defend itself pretty much, perhaps the AI would actually start using these in the late game and it'd solve the whole not improving terrain problem? don't know if it actually would do this or not...
loki1232
Loki
kevjm said:
I like this, but maybe that would be too good. What if you kept his same strength, but gave him the command promotion to build a barb horde?
Nah. It doesn't need to be uber strong. Instead it could get really cool special abilities. Like this:
1. If on top of a metal resource, can "eat" the resource to be resored to full health.
2. Lots of cool body spellcasting abilities. (since Kael says the spells and leveling is almost working)
3. He has access to the Immortal promotion (when he levels up he can gain immortality, but only until he dies once).
See what i mean?
loki1232
Loki
kevjm said:Glad you like the idea
Not as much. The basic flavor of the golems, as i see it, is that they are weak and expensive and have no special abilities, but can be built forever.
The worker actions would be special abilities.
kevjm said:
The only problem with stenght 200 would be that its very unlikly to hurt him at all. 200 strenght without promotions vs a immortal 12 + another 12 for combat1-5 + 14,4 for schock I&II (or whatever type Wrath is) + 2,4 for quality armor&weapons=40,8
Ratio: 200:40,8 =4,9:1
I tried to fight with a priest strenght 5 vs a scout strenght 1
results after 30 fights:
30 wins for priest
19 without any damage
10 with 10% damage
1 with 20% damage
Since its very unliky you have thath many units that high lvl it would be almost impossible to kill an unexpierenced wrath.
And think of the exp he would get out of these battles.
I also think that golems could be classed as giants to improve the giant slayer promotion.
And as you can see in above example it would be a good idea to increase the strenght of wrath & other armagedon units to 40-50 so they would be strong vs unexperienced units but the really high lvl units would stand a chance against them
And as you can see in above example it would be a good idea to increase the strenght of wrath & other armagedon units to 40-50 so they would be strong vs unexperienced units but the really high lvl units would stand a chance against them
loki1232 said:
Well it would be more of a worker than a military unit (as I see it), and you have also suggested lots of special abilities for the mithril golem (I especially like the metal eating and to a lesser extent the immortal idea). I was thinking it would only have strength 2 or 3 with no city attack bonus, perhaps vulnerable to fire as well.
Oh and i just tried what would happen if our 200 strenght unit would get attacked by 16 high lvl immortals
results of priest vs 16 scouts which attacked him on plain ground in one round:
priest killed all 16 scouts
2,5 strength left
gained 12exp
after 3 lvl up -> 4,7 strength
Oh well certain defeat approaching
results of priest vs 16 scouts which attacked him on plain ground in one round:
priest killed all 16 scouts
2,5 strength left
gained 12exp
after 3 lvl up -> 4,7 strength
Oh well certain defeat approaching
Chip56 said:
AH! But he wouldn't be able to heal (thanks Chip)! (not sure if it's possible to prevent healing on promotions though...) So he's definately gunna take a few cities before he finally dies, you'll be able to see him take out half the map with his barbarian hord rather than being taken down my 2 knights, an iron golem and a shield wall
But 200 was just a randomly high number you came up with, not sure what strength would be best- is 170 better?
EDIT: Gah, should really check to see who I'm replying to, that message looks a little odd now
Kael
Deity
Playtesting the following changes based on this feedback:
1. The Mithril Golem increased from 26 to 40 strength.
2. Meshabber of Dis increased from 22 to 32 strength.
3. The Avatar of Wrath increased from 30 to 34 strength, given the Combat I, II and III promotions, given the Spell Extension I, II and III promotions, given the ability to travel across land and water, and gets 30% of the worlds units when he comes into play instead of 20%.
1. The Mithril Golem increased from 26 to 40 strength.
2. Meshabber of Dis increased from 22 to 32 strength.
3. The Avatar of Wrath increased from 30 to 34 strength, given the Combat I, II and III promotions, given the Spell Extension I, II and III promotions, given the ability to travel across land and water, and gets 30% of the worlds units when he comes into play instead of 20%.
We are talking about the golem still, aren't we? A construct? A body without soul or, potentially, mindfulness? Does it actually make sense to give it spells? I mean, it was brought to life with magic but surely it would just be a physical weapon?
That said, owing to the nature of the Golem, I'd think Arrows would have less effect againt him (but perhaps explosives and magic would be more effective?). I don't think Golems should be added to the Giant Slayer promotion though, as was suggested. I -do- think owing to the size and so forth of the Mithril Golem, that Giant Slayer could give a +% vs. Mithril Golem (akin to how Grenadiers have a bonus solely against Riflemen)
As for the 'clay golem', I like it. It would only be set to given tasks set into it so it would only be a worker (perhaps with some defense?) but, being baked from clay, it'd be weak to fire? *shrugs*
Also, I'd be more then happy to see old 'thulhu swimming around as the big, end game unit for Octopus Overlords ^^; If not as a controllable unit, perhaps in some area of the sea, a small island could arrise and, on it, a city spawns with the ability to produce some kind of ghastly star spawned entities; some of which could perhaps roam the seas at some speed but are slow on land and, though very adept against ships are more cumbersome (but still very much capable) at fighting land units (thought priests or mages might stand a chance). *shrugs*
Finally, as has been suggested, Wrath, Mithril Golem, etc. do need to be upgraded to the 40-50 area or, perhaps, have their attacking tweaked a little (to try and stop them relentlessly charging head on to a City Garrison III Shield Wall thats been fortified for the passed century)
Edit: Ack, I got beaten to it on the Clay Golem fire vulnerability ><
Chalid
Black Dragon
Its not really important but as 1.0 is mainly about optics and cleaning up...
is tehre a way to reduce the symbols shown at polytheism? It might be done in a way similar to vanilla where only one temple is shown and not all 7.
is tehre a way to reduce the symbols shown at polytheism? It might be done in a way similar to vanilla where only one temple is shown and not all 7.
Kael
Deity
Chalid said:
I don't like the string of stuff there either. I was thinking about taking away the disciples requirement for polytheism (since they need the temple anyway its a redundant requirement). That would at least get 6 of the icons out of the way.
