Mod: Full Civilization Progression Plan (120 Civs) (5 ages)

[mclaw]

Hi all,

I have been working on a list of full civilization progressions for future mods and I need some help with it. Currently, There are over 120 civilizations planned out across 4 ages (added contemporary age). Obviously this is ambitious, and not all need to be made, but I'm optimistic that most of these can be completed over time. I think it would be awesome to play with the current mechanics while potentially being more accurate with historical progression. It would allow for truly interesting scenarios, narratives, and gameplay, while giving everyone exactly what they want. I put together a list of how each current civ could have a corresponding civ in the ages preceding or succeeding it. I also added quite a few more to round it all out.

I am looking for any and all feedback on progression, civ ideas, and anything else that might make these eventual mods better and/or potentially more accurate. I have done a fair bit of research on most of these civilizations, but recognize that I may have missed things and probably left out some truly epic civilizations. Please let me know what you want or what you think.

*I have already started an Anasazi mod for the Southwest Native American Civ progression. The mod is not yet ready to post and assets are not yet completed (awaiting modding support).Thank you to RogueAustralia for creating mods that I am currently using as templates. His Sumer mod was the template for the Anasazi mod (highlighted below), more changes will be made to differentiate the two in the future. This is just the start, and I am confident that we can do some really awesome things in Civilization 7.

 

[Upgrady]

I support your plan.
As a Korean user, there is a leader that Koreans want
I'd like to recommend it.

1- the ancient era

Gwanggaeto the Great (Goguryo)

It is the only conquest monarch in Korean history.
It's not just the territory of China today
They conquered a number of countries in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula
The king played a decisive role in consolidating the region into the jurisdiction of Goguryeo.

2 - Age of Discovery

Taejong LEE Bang-won (Joseon)

I am Lee Bang-won, the son of Lee Seong-gye, who founded Joseon.
Innovate all the institutions of Joseon and centralize all the local armies
He succeeded in minimizing the insurrection, and he was able to use human resources beyond his status
He is a king who has implemented various policies for the common people.

In order to strengthen the royal authority
There was no way to do it,
It is a historical testament to the fact that the political power was very good.

 

[spiderj90]

My two cents on Egypt:

Two alternatives to the Fatimid Caliphate as the exploration civilization for Egypt could be the Ayyubid Dynasty and the Mamluk Sultanate. Personally would love to see all three. I'd rename the modern age one the Khedivate of Egypt and the contemporary one the Republic of Egypt but you have the right idea.

I would add a parallel but intersecting path that goes something like Kerma/Nubia -> Kush -> ???? -> Sudan.

If you're making them anyway, the Byzantines, Rashidun, Umayids, Abbasids, (and presumably coming in DLC) Ottomans should also be various alternative options.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Wouldn’t the Sassanids or Safavids be a better alternative successor to Persia

 

[Ghalaad]

hello. just a suggestion for ages. could it be Antiquity > Medieval > Renaissance > Industrialisation > Modern era ?

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

I just completed** Antiquity Age Germania, which would be either proceed the Holy Roman Empire or replace Teutons. I'm not sure if/when i'll do another. Moding cuts down on playing time.



**Hopefully, there a lot that goes into civs for 7 and a lot can go wrong when you don't know what your doing, like I don't.

 

[ObsidianW]

If I can make some suggestions:

For Africa:
A new line: Bantu / Oman Imamate -> Swahili -> Zanzibar -> Tanzania
Bantu could evolve in both Zimbabwe and Swahili

For Europe:
The Franks for the antiquity of the HRE, can be followed by Bavaria in Modern (A bit unrelated for Bavaria, but fun)

For Asia:
Line: Ferghana -> Timurids -> Ouzbeks
Line: Indus or Gupta -> Delhi Sultanate -> Sikh (relatively close to each others + share a lot of history)

For South America:
The Moche can be used before the Inca (Even if it's early middle age), or become their own line
Moche -> Chimu -> New Spain

 

[Krajzen]

Great job! Not let me allow some constructive criticism.

*Oyo empire is a creation of Yoruba people, who are a completely separate group from Edo people (of Benin kingdom) and Igbo. Trying to combine those three is like trying to combine English, German and Dutch civs because "they are close to each other and culturally similar" And trying to combine any two of those three with Sokoto is like mixing English, German and Dutch with French lol, it's an entire separate higher layer of heresy
*I have no time rn to propose the exact alternatives, maybe I'll do that later, but I vaguely recall it should be possible to create three era progression for Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo - all those three massive civilizations deserve their separate lines. No idea what to do with the orphaned Benin kingdom of Edo people, sadly.

HAUSA: Nok -> Hausa Bakwai -> Sokoto
YORUBA: Ile-Ife -> ??? -? Oyo
IGBO: Nri -> ??? Aro

MOROCCO: Mauritania (?) -> Almoravids or Almohands -> Saadi or Alawi dynasty -> Morocco

Algerian line can and should be separated from Tunisia!

ALGERIA: Numidia -> Tlemcen -> Algiers -> Algeria
TUNISIA: Carthage -> Zirids -> Tunis -> Tunisia

ZIMBABWE: Mapungubwe -> Rozwi -> Mutapa -> Zimbabwe

MADAGASCAR: Malagasy -> Merina -> Imerina (iirc) -> Madagascar

SUDAN: Nubia/Kush -> Alodia/Makuria -> Funj -> Sudan

SOMALIA: Punt -> Ajuraan -> Mogadishu -> Somalia

JORDAN: Nabateans -> Ghassanids -> Jordan (one of many, many civs that work only in the three age system - you can't invent anything for the "3rd age" here since the entire area was simply the Ottoman Empire from early 1500s till the Jordanian state of the 20th century...)

I'll post other ideas later

 

[Krajzen]

Does it make sense to plan for the 4th age civs, if we have no idea if we're gonna get the 4th age civ set - especially seeing how it is simply not possible to design four civ division for a lot of countries? I am trying to invent them if possible, but it is often so painful that I just remain further convinced of the fourth set of civs being a terrible idea

I also don't see the point in including "neolithic age" just to waste your time and effort just copy pasting "tribe" everywhere

ITALY N+1
Rome -> any Italian civ of that era -> Sardinia-Piedmont -> Italy
(there is no criteria or reason to choose any Italian state between the fall of Rome and unification of Italy in particular, because so many of them have been co interesting)

BULGARIA Thracians -> Bulgarian Empire -> Bulgaria
ROMANIA 1 Dacians -> Wallachia -> Romania
ROMANIA 2 Dacians -> Moldova -> Wallachia -> Romania
GREECE 1 Ancient Greece -> Byzantium -> Modern Greece
(you can also rename the ancient one as Athens, or Hellada, or simply Greece - or the modern one as Greece, or Hellenic Republic, or whatever - why complicate life? Also Greece is a fantastic example of why four era division is a terrible idea - there is a ton of countries like this where there is simply NO WAY to invent a sensible second modern entity)

HUNGARY 1 Avars -> Magyars -> Hungary
HUNGARY 2 Avars -> Magyars -> Hungary -> Austria-Hungary (by Magyars I mean fearsome warriors who ravaged Europe in the 10th century as opposed to the later Kingdom
AUSTRIA whatever Germanic tribe -> HRE -> Austria -> Austria-Hungary (in this case I assume civ lines being allowed to not always contain exclusive, unique entities - you kinda gonna need that rule to include countries like Austria-Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia or Soviets...)

 

[mclaw]

Great job! Not let me allow some constructive criticism.

*Oyo empire is a creation of Yoruba people, who are a completely separate group from Edo people (of Benin kingdom) and Igbo. Trying to combine those three is like trying to combine English, German and Dutch civs because "they are close to each other and culturally similar" And trying to combine any two of those three with Sokoto is like mixing English, German and Dutch with French lol, it's an entire separate higher layer of heresy
*I have no time rn to propose the exact alternatives, maybe I'll do that later, but I vaguely recall it should be possible to create three era progression for Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo - all those three massive civilizations deserve their separate lines. No idea what to do with the orphaned Benin kingdom of Edo people, sadly.

HAUSA: Nok -> Hausa Bakwai -> Sokoto
YORUBA: Ile-Ife -> ??? -? Oyo
IGBO: Nri -> ??? Aro

MOROCCO: Mauritania (?) -> Almoravids or Almohands -> Saadi or Alawi dynasty -> Morocco

Algerian line can and should be separated from Tunisia!

ALGERIA: Numidia -> Tlemcen -> Algiers -> Algeria
TUNISIA: Carthage -> Zirids -> Tunis -> Tunisia

ZIMBABWE: Mapungubwe -> Rozwi -> Mutapa -> Zimbabwe

MADAGASCAR: Malagasy -> Merina -> Imerina (iirc) -> Madagascar

SUDAN: Nubia/Kush -> Alodia/Makuria -> Funj -> Sudan

SOMALIA: Punt -> Ajuraan -> Mogadishu -> Somalia

JORDAN: Nabateans -> Ghassanids -> Jordan (one of many, many civs that work only in the three age system - you can't invent anything for the "3rd age" here since the entire area was simply the Ottoman Empire from early 1500s till the Jordanian state of the 20th century...)

I'll post other ideas later

This is great, thank you. Gonna do a complete rework within the week hopefully. Will probably reconsider the 4th age for now and will work on having multiple, branching progressions. Progressions will strive to be culture specific, but in some areas geography will be deciding factor (similar to how it currently is in Civ 7).

Committing to SW Native American civ progression for now (Anasazi -> Hopi -> Navajo). Up next is probably Tairona -> Muisca -> Gran Columbia and/or a rework of either Ghana or Nigerian progression.

Thank you again

 

[mclaw]

Does it make sense to plan for the 4th age civs, if we have no idea if we're gonna get the 4th age civ set - especially seeing how it is simply not possible to design four civ division for a lot of countries? I am trying to invent them if possible, but it is often so painful that I just remain further convinced of the fourth set of civs being a terrible idea

I also don't see the point in including "neolithic age" just to waste your time and effort just copy pasting "tribe" everywhere

ITALY N+1
Rome -> any Italian civ of that era -> Sardinia-Piedmont -> Italy
(there is no criteria or reason to choose any Italian state between the fall of Rome and unification of Italy in particular, because so many of them have been co interesting)

BULGARIA Thracians -> Bulgarian Empire -> Bulgaria
ROMANIA 1 Dacians -> Wallachia -> Romania
ROMANIA 2 Dacians -> Moldova -> Wallachia -> Romania
GREECE 1 Ancient Greece -> Byzantium -> Modern Greece
(you can also rename the ancient one as Athens, or Hellada, or simply Greece - or the modern one as Greece, or Hellenic Republic, or whatever - why complicate life? Also Greece is a fantastic example of why four era division is a terrible idea - there is a ton of countries like this where there is simply NO WAY to invent a sensible second modern entity)

HUNGARY 1 Avars -> Magyars -> Hungary
HUNGARY 2 Avars -> Magyars -> Hungary -> Austria-Hungary (by Magyars I mean fearsome warriors who ravaged Europe in the 10th century as opposed to the later Kingdom
AUSTRIA whatever Germanic tribe -> HRE -> Austria -> Austria-Hungary (in this case I assume civ lines being allowed to not always contain exclusive, unique entities - you kinda gonna need that rule to include countries like Austria-Hungary, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia or Soviets...)

Thank you, I agree. I am curious if there will even be new civs for the upcoming 4th age? It seems like a difficult task for Firaxis

Working on proof of concept for now, highlighting Native American Civs and/or West Africa.

Great suggestions though, gonna start reworking it all. Thank you!

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

Thank you, I agree. I am curious if there will even be new civs for the upcoming 4th age? It seems like a difficult task for Firaxis

I don’t think the three age system is going to miss enough civs to justify a 4th. The British and Ottoman empires should have broken up a little earlier.

 

[mclaw]

I don’t think the three age system is going to miss enough cobs to justify a 4th. The British and Ottoman empires should have broken up a little earlier.

The modern era civs could just carry over into a Contemporary era. It could also be interesting to potentially see an era wedged between the end of antiquity and beginning of exploration (think its like 950 bce - 400 ce), but I'm unsure.

 

[Krajzen]

SPAIN offens a ton of possibilities. For the baseline I would simply go with

Iberians -> Castille -> Spain
(yes I am aware second era civ in the game is "Spain", which I think was a bad choice of devs, so I imagine "Spain" being renamed to Castille bc otherwise I have no idea what to do with the modern age civ in Iberia lol)
(alternately Aragon could be a separate civ being able to replace Castille in the chain)
(I think Celts, Goths as in Visigoths and Moorish states should be separate from this line, or auxillary replacements too)
(once again, Spain is a fantastic example of a progression where trying to invent the 4th civ is a horrible task )

PORTUGAL is problematic bc of the country's longevity, continuity and unchanged bordersa. Ancient era sure, you can put Lusitanians or whatever, but "Portugal" should really be the civ of the exploration era for obvious reasons so I can't force myself to make the 2nd era civ "Galicia" or whatever and then put Portugal in modern. The only solution I can think of is sadly heavyhanded Lusitanians -> Portuguese Empire -> Portuguese Republic. That's what we get when the country didn't change borders and name for 900 years...

IRELAND was not the easiest too because of the civs kinda unbroken continuity. I think it would be like
Gaels -> Connacht -> Ireland
With "Gaels" being local ancient Irish Celts (you can use whatever better name you can think of), "Connacht" being one of the most remarkable Irish kingdoms before English conquest, and Ireland being well Ireland. I guess something could replace "Connact" but no idea what.


Constituent parts of the UK actually would allow 4th era link fairly easily because the entire Great Britain/United Kingdom mess allows you to easily multiplicate modern civs if you wish so, you just throw one or the other on top of three age progression.
SCOTLAND offers several possibilities, depending on whether one wants to end with "Scotland" or historically with the British banner
I think the best idea is Picts -> Scotland -> United Kingdom (or Great Britain) (implied to be dominated by Scots this time)
one could also play with for example
Picts -> Alba -> Scotland
Caledonians -> Picts -> Scotland

Similar dilemmas arise with WALES. One can either go through like
Powys -> Gwynedd -> Wales or
Britons -> Powys/Gwynedd -> Wales (downside: "Britons" shared with the English, unless they get "Iceni")
or a low effort mode but kinda the most historical path Britons -> Wales -> UK/GB (implied to be dominated by Welsh)

ENGLAND offers several interesting alternatives.
The most obvious low effort path is Britons -> Normans -> Great Britain, with two links made by Firaxis
but one can also replace "Britons" with "Iceni" to make "Britons" unique to Wales, for example
and more interestingly, there could be an alternate civ to Normans - "Anglo-Saxons"
last but not least there could be also a simple "England" civ though it seems to be redundat next to Normans and A-S
thus the most high effort original civs path would be like "Iceni->Anglo-Saxons->England"

FRANCE well that's an easy one, even if one wants to do the 4th civ struggle
Gauls -> Franks/Carolingians -> France
or Gauls -> French Kingdom -> French Empire

 

[czechball]

i have a few ideas:

Belgae -> Flanders -> Belgium

Samo's Empire/Great Moravia (i'm fudging the timeframes a bit for this) -> Bohemia -> Czechoslovakia

Aluank (Caucasian Albania) -> Shirvan -> Azerbaijan

Xiongnu -> Manchu -> Qing (the Qing are already included in base game)

 

[Krajzen]

i have a few ideas:

Belgae -> Flanders -> Belgium

I was going to suggest that but a) What about Wallons and b) I'm kinda tempted by the decently historical idea of Flanders leading to Netherlands.

I have very exoric idea right now. What if Burgundy civ was a link leading to Belgium instead?
a) Avoids Flemish vs Wallons drama and picking one or the other, keeps Belgium united
b) Super cool civ which has no way to go anywhere else otherwise

Samo's Empire/Great Moravia (i'm fudging the timeframes a bit for this) -> Bohemia -> Czechoslovakia

Strangely enough I had the same idea some time ago but I forgot about it lol. But it's interesting how both of us had not so obvious idea of going "Khmer logic" (or "Missisipi logic") and making Samo's state or Moravia the "ancient" one even if it doesn't fit the literal chronology. I also wanted to see Czechoslovakia

Aluank (Caucasian Albania) -> Shirvan -> Azerbaijan

Xiongnu -> Manchu -> Qing (the Qing are already included in base game)

Both ideas are great

 

[czechball]

I was going to suggest that but a) What about Wallons and b) I'm kinda tempted by the decently historical idea of Flanders leading to Netherlands.

I have very exoric idea right now. What if Burgundy civ was a link leading to Belgium instead?
a) Avoids Flemish vs Wallons drama and picking one or the other, keeps Belgium united
b) Super cool civ which has no way to go anywhere else otherwise

fair enough, for all of your ideas there

Strangely enough I had the same idea some time ago but I forgot about it lol. But it's interesting how both of us had not so obvious idea of going "Khmer logic" (or "Missisipi logic") and making Samo's state or Moravia the "ancient" one even if it doesn't fit the literal chronology. I also wanted to see Czechoslovakia

great minds think alike, eh? also neat

Both ideas are great

thanks

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Here's an alternative layout plan I came up with:

Also, I should point out present-day Puebloans consider "Anasazi" to be a derogatory name, due to its linguistic origins

EDIT: I should clarify that this chart is not going to imply there is only one civ you can become in the following age; the arrows aren't strict paths, and the blank spaces aren't undecided predecessors/successors. For example, Kalmar Union can morph into either Poland, Prussia or Sweden, and Kievan Rus can morph into either Poland, Russia or Ukraine, etcetera

 

[Ryansinbela]

Kalmar into Poland?

 

[BackseatTyrant]

Kalmar into Poland?

There was a lot of intermingling between Scandinavian and Polish royalty throughout the middle ages and well into the early modern period