[MODCOMP] Mercenaries Mod

[TheLopez]

hello thelopez,

first me and mrgenie love all your addition - your doing a great job.

mrgenie have written your merc coe for warlords,
and it single game it works great.
buton mp game it causes oos...

mrgenie are trying to fix it with the help of gerikes.

he also fixed many things there.

keldath and mrgenie,

Considering that you guys converted the merc mod to warlords I cannot provide you with any help since I do not know what you might have changed in the code... I think Gerikes would agree with me on this one, though I don't want to put words in his mouth.

 

[Gerikes]

keldath and mrgenie,

Considering that you guys converted the merc mod to warlords I cannot provide you with any help since I do not know what you might have changed in the code... I think Gerikes would agree with me on this one, though I don't want to put words in his mouth.

No need to put them in, you took them right out.

 

[mrgenie]

I'm not asking for help on the code itself, i got that to work, and I guess working in singple player perfectly without errors means it's working I only asked help on the OOS issue, since im unaware how to trace down such errors. this is not just your mod related, many mods cause OOS, yours is just 1 of them, i just ask help HOWTO trace OOS errors and fixing them

and ket, not using civ1.61 codes for warlords...i dont know what you do? maybe copy past? im not into that kind of modding...since that obviously causes problems, i actually do change the code itself if needed...however, 99,99% of thelopez code is very well and good, even for warlords..he's a fine programmer! better then me myself, i dont have that much experience, but if you are referring to stupid copy paste business, im not doing that! no offence.

anyway...i just want to know why it causes OOS..the problem might be ebcause of warlords and not under civ1.61(did anyone test this mod under 1.61?) but nonetheless...it's the only help i need..and it's just a question I take no for an answer! no problem with that.

EDIT
[QOUTE]
I'm not sure exactly what part wouldn't work, but what I'm trying to track down would be something that isn't a WL-specific item
[/QUOTE
gerikes, many people step back adding codes from 1.61 to warlords, because sometimes some referencing(or how do you call it) is slightly different...but really, peanuts! but i guess lotsof people just copy paste, then get errors, 99,99% has disabled any python error notification or other debugging info...so they just see a scrambled screen, or units not beeing updated properly, and then out of options and blame it on warlords, where in fact even a started can find out pretty quick the errors and fix them(with a little help reading some python tutorials and civ4 class references)..

then you have the related xml's, there are some differences here too...if someone takes a civ1.61 mod, gets error messages, or even disabled them, and then it doesn't work.or they dont understand error messages..i guess it's a good reason for saying:"do not use 1.61mods for warlords" however, i got every civ1.61 mod to work under warlords properly always...the merc would be the first where undecend warlords compatibilty caused an OOS...in all the mods it was also in the civ1.61...im pretty sure this thing is also in the mod if you play on a 1.61 civ version..i won't bet my life on it, but 99,99% sure.

and to talk about theLopez mods...his mods are VERY GOOD programmed!! i got alot of problems when i tried to make sevo3.1 for warlords...editing a huge modpack at once is very tricky...but i even got that to work properly after hours of debugging...but thelopey really writes good codes...they are well commented, well structurized, and i dont see any problem integrating this mod in warlords..sorry thelopze! maybe you doubt yourself, but i don't! i bow for you

edit2,
btw when i have to list the greatest modders,
i'll put thelopez and sevon on a shared place 1
Gir and others are awesome modders too!! but it's my personal vote

edit3....
VERY IMPORTANT!! I want this mod for warlords anyway...i love the idea! it's just awesome what theLopez created!! I hope he will fix the issues people are reporting and release a new version very soon for warlords! without OOS

 

[Ket]

MrGenie..

I don't know where you get off on attacking me.

If your looking to debug OOS errors use the Creation and Customization forum, if your asking TheLopez to support code that you have addmidetly and obviously rewritten from scratch your in the wrong place...

As far as your cut and paste comments, ummm... yea ok whatever, have a nice day if your such a great programmer you will know why these things casuse OOS issues.

I didnt come over here to attack you, nor do I appreaciate the attack back. The fact is your mod has a good deal of crash's in it and I am giving you some advise on how to prevent that. But thats fine, do it your way, have fun. But dont step on anyone else's toes in the process.

 

[mrgenie]

MrGenie..

I don't know where you get off on attacking me.

If your looking to debug OOS errors use the Creation and Customization forum, if your asking TheLopez to support code that you have addmidetly and obviously rewritten from scratch your in the wrong place...

As far as your cut and paste comments, ummm... yea ok whatever, have a nice day if your such a great programmer you will know why these things casuse OOS issues.

I didnt come over here to attack you, nor do I appreaciate the attack back. The fact is your mod has a good deal of crash's in it and I am giving you some advise on how to prevent that. But thats fine, do it your way, have fun. But dont step on anyone else's toes in the process.

I"m not following you here? i did mention im not half a programmer like the lopez is didnt I? and as a matter of fact, i didnt change anything in the standard routines of theLopez, only some variables which were used by other modpacks so i renamed some variables to make them working without interacting between another...changing variables names cant cause any rpoblems if you change them in all isntances where they are used. anyway, i never said i was a good programmer, i said i was able thus far to get all civ1.61 mods running under warlords properly but i thank grately for you to state this to be an act of a great programmer, however i think it"s only logical thinking how codes work. however, like i said, im unexperienced and by far outprogrammed by thelopez, sevo, gerikes...since i know gerikes is a specialist in OOS i asked his help for this, also i mentioned to thelopez his mod causes OOS in our version, did i ask him for help anywhere? no! i just mentioned it...sorry for mentioning things! wont mention anything anymore..

the other thing, did i REQUEST help? NO! i think this community is about helping each others...if one doesnt help or cannot, fine by me i try to help people as i can...hope others will do to...but either way..im not attacking you, nor do i see you wanna attack me(although you say yourself you wanna attack me?) i dont see it as an attack..critics are always good..

under other circumstances we might be debating about this with some drink at a bar thought about that?

anyway...about errors in our mod...i didnt hear of any major error in our modpack..sorry if you experienced them...i'd like you to post it so we can fix it..but frankly, the only issue we had was a problem of communication where i thought kel did include xml and kel thought i didnt use the referring python code for now...which i actually did include..has nothing to do with the mercs mod however if you are referring to this issue(which noone has reported anyway, since we were able to track down this issue ourself) i would like you next time just tell us we forgot to include some xml's the pythons are referring too

for the rest, i really dont see any point why i should attack you(as you say it) or where you attack me? if you critisize me for trying and experimenting, your good right i dont see it as an attack, i grew up by trail and error, that's my base of knowledge, maybe your tactics are different, i admire people who can do things without errors, but i can't sorry if i failed you!

 

[Ket]

Maybe I misread what you where saying. Sometimes words in some languages come out strange in others.

By crash's I was speaking of hanging turns, OOS, and just outright CTD most of those where cleared up when you guys stopped attempting to port Sevo's stuff over, which is good. Going on a clean slate is the best way to do things.

OOS's are causes by a good deal of problems, most of the time it has to do with player referencing allthough that is not the only reason. As far as why mercenaries is giving OOS I have no idea nor would anyone else without looking at the code. I'm not even sure the original version caused OOS or not.

I never claimed you where a good or bad programmer, I don't have the information to make such a claim... I AM SURE you are a fine programmer, but the thing is there are issues with 1.61 and the API changes to warlords that while the mod may work correctly there may be things happening under the scenes that do not work, causing the whole thing to possibly not work.

I don't even know what changed in 1.61 to warlords. I never modded under 1.61 or before. All I know is a lot of people have pulled there hair out trying to get things to work when doing conversions.

Ok let me explain. I work for a software company, we create software for people to use. Our database is done in either Oracle, or SQL Server. The SECOND the customer changes the database and that includes table changes, index changes, or even upgrades we no longer support the application. We just don't have time to do something like that. Does that apply here. No... But its where my head is...

I've learned a lot from the guys here, but there are a great deal of things written by folks including Girkies in the main creation forum, and the turorial forum on dealing with OOS issues

Im sorry if i took your comments harsh and attacking of me.

 

[mrgenie]

glad we settled that because i like your composite mod alot! i dont wanna fight you! so we cleared out we dont have a fight! and yes, i was pulling my hair out of my head 100times..especially with getting sevo3.1 to warlords to run...was my first try to work with pythons... and really, i made errors 100times! like i said, reading tutorials, trail and error...but i got it to work...

Then keldath tried to pull off a magical thing with adding amra,5uu, sevo, and alot of other things, and this all at once into warlords...then we got errors, and he was overwhelmed by all the errors to fix this alone...that's when i decided to try to help...i did fix alot of pythons, kel fixed i dunno, 10.000lines of xml??? he worked so damn hard on it...we solve so many problems...but 1thing we never able to fix...CTD upon attacking a city-walled city...i debugged that 1000times, ot even debug files of 600megs large...so we gave up that project...

Then we agreed, we just take 1 mod, test it under warlords, debug all the info, see where variables and strings go wrong..try to fix it..if we can fix it..we include it..thats how i did most of the mods...GIR, Techleak, alot of other mods...to be honest, the merc mods of theLopez is so well coded, i didnt even experienced any problems running this under warlords without modifying it...nada, zip, worked perfectly...

Untill i merged it...was alot of work because lopez did so much work on this one!! my first errors upon merging were some python errors related to variables accessed by mercs and another mod(dont know anymore which one) I think there was in the mainscreen some minor issue with the NJATM mod...but i just used temp variables and rewrote some lines to work with that(i figured out could be done better and shorter, but im too lazy to change it)...anyway, i can't see how that could cause OOS since i always used direct references...i did never used getActivePlayer() or such which could generate different intergers on different computers.

And everything worked fine..except i made the upkeep 4dollar/turn instead of 40 because i thought 40was too expensive...then people reported the units were so heavy, so i figured, ok, bad idea making things so cheap! ouch..big mistake actually...I shouldn't have doubt lopez had a reason for doing so!

anyway..i would like to fix some things, i did change some codes(on my 2nd computer) which worked fine..but i always kept the original codes on my 2nd computer...this one i used together with keldath for the multiplayer where we hit the OOS...it's the version without putting some own lines...it's 100% lopez, only variables renamed...and it works flawless under singleplayer...

either way, if this is in the original mod of lopez or not...if it's not..it means it must be something to do with interaction between mods...and i hope it'll prove helpfull to debug this one for Girekes OOS tutorial, which im reading this evening...i really hope he can put some light on this issue..im not saying it's in the lopez code...but i do say, if it's not in his original code...it's my fault..and it can't be big, because i did only change variable names on the original code...so it must be easy to trck for gerikes if it's my fault..

you know, it's 1thing to make a code working, it's a different thing to get it running streamlined in Multiplayer and i understand much of codings by reading the lines..think what the computer does with it...but i lack experience alot when it comes to think what it does in multiplayer, i think im not the only one there...gerikes seems to have a great deal of understanding this part of the game...so all my hope are turned on him now! i know lopez would be able to solve this too...but i have put him 2mod request myself already, and he has such a huge todo list i really dont wanna bother with him nor request anything from him...
i just think he should know i have experienced this error...and the moment someone else reports this under multiplayer...it might be easier for him to track the bug...if im not telling him this(either if its warlords or also civ 1.61 related) it might be harder for him IF there's an error to find it...i can provide him with debugs, OOSlog from gerikes, maps, savegames...I just saying, feedback(wether you can use it or not) is never waste of time...it's experience people have...I like poeple giving feedback, also when they tell me making the mercenaries so cheap is the stupiest thing i could have done..they are right! it was stupid of me..should have tested it's effect first.

anyway...what im trying to point out here...I just love theLopez'es mods!!! every single of him!! i love his work...i don't wanna play without his work...it's so great! and im so sad that now we must play without his mod in the multiplayer im really sad about that..

anyway, i think i owe you a drink..so the moment i visit the USA, you can remind me of that!

 

[TheLopez]

Ok, now that everyone is buddies again... I have decided to completely rewrite the mercenaries mod using some of the SDK to get the AI to use it correctly (using my experience from the inquisitor mod), get rid of the OOS errors in multiplayer, etc, etc. Though it will have to wait until after I make my next mod comp batch release and after I finish my in-game tech tree editor (don't ask for details cause I won't tell).

 

[Dom Pedro II]

TheLopez, can we get some details?

Seriously though, I'd like very much to see an optimized Mercenaries Mod using the SDK as much as possible.

 

[Ket]

The lopez, I could KILL for info dynasties...

 

[mrgenie]

I'm prepared to wait as long as it takes. I'm a big fan of your work, the longer it takes, the better it'll be.

Just don't overwork yourself! you should get fun out of the game too! I don't know how much time you need for making these mods, but it looks like you have a full time jobs on it I mean, considering the rate of your mod releases!

 

[Grave]

T T T

Bump for another Warlords version request.

 

[Mexico]

found another interesting bug in merc. code:
when new merc unit is created, it used ActivePlayer(AP) ID an temporarily placed in AP starting location. but if AP build city instarting location and this city later is captured by enemy, in next turn is "magicaly" agian as AP city (newly created mercenary "capture" this city back to AP)

 

[Anthraxus899]

Quick Question, may have already been answered, but if you make one of your units a mercenary, and the AI hires it, if you go to war with said AI, is the merc back in your possession, also, what happens if the AI runs out of money to support the merc?

 

[Sarke]

My question is along the same lines as Anthraxus899's... would it be possible to either make a configurable option so that if you go to war with a civ hiring one of your units as a merc they lose the contract? Also, same question but instead of an option perhaps as an in game option when you hire them out (I.E. when you make them a merc have an option to retreive them if their employer goes to war with you)... just some ideas for the mod

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Fantastic Work so far
I just was asking myself, if the pool of units u may choose from is the same for all civs or for every single one specific ecording the techs the civ got etc? And there is another thing I'm worried about: I got a mod where all civs have for most of the units specific ones, which replace the standart-units. So for example civ A uses tank A, civ B tank B etc. and normally no civ would be using the standart tank, this unit would exist only theoretical.. So could civ A buy a tank B or the standart-tank? I would love to integrate this mod into one of mine, but it would be messed up, when civ can get units, they actually should not be able to have

 

[Sarke]

Fantastic Work so far
I just was asking myself, if the pool of units u may choose from is the same for all civs or for every single one specific ecording the techs the civ got etc? And there is another thing I'm worried about: I got a mod where all civs have for most of the units specific ones, which replace the standart-units. So for example civ A uses tank A, civ B tank B etc. and normally no civ would be using the standart tank, this unit would exist only theoretical.. So could civ A buy a tank B or the standart-tank? I would love to integrate this mod into one of mine, but it would be messed up, when civ can get units, they actually should not be able to have

I think that is the idea of the mod. Civ2 could turn one of their TankB's into a merc and Civ1 could hire it at cost.

 

[The Navy Seal]

Is this compatable for warlords?

 

[Fachy]

That's a shame, TR will probably remove it from their next release because it causes alot of bugs. Mercenaries adds a very important and missing factor in the vanilla: the weapon market!

 

[lamppost4]

Is mercenaries a renting process like in rhyes mod? if so, is it possible to mod this so you can sell the units outright instead of renting them?