Modding the aspects of "Game Speed"

[grallon]

GlobalDefines.xml (right in the Assets\Xml folder, not even any subfolder):

...

Thank you


G.

 

[Doskei]

does anyone know where Civ keeps the data on what culture values each city must have in order to expand?

Try the Civ4CultureLevelInfo file.

Thanks, kevchod, but it looks like that file tells the game how to determine when an entire civilization (not an individual city) has reached various thresholds. This was actually brought up earlier - if you create a new gamespeed, and then neglect to add entries for that gamespeed in the CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml file, then all players will immediately be in control of "legendary" civilizations, because the thresholds will all be 0.

I'm worried these values may be hardcoded, but I haven't given up. Any other useful ideas?

Has anyone tested the "Era" file modification? It seems like a simpler way to address various stages of the game. I'm at work, but one easy way to quickly test would be to start a game in a later era with and then without the modification and see if research times change...assuming your science output is similar.

I don't think that test is really going to tell us much. I'm not at a computer with the game installed (and won't be for some time), but I'm fairly sure you're going to find that research times DO change if you modify them in that file and them test them the way you've described ... but that doesn't really tell us what we need to know. If that file actually scales the research costs up, for each age, no matter when you start, then you're going to see a change. If that file scales the research costs up, only when you start in that age, you're going to see the same change. The only way that test would really tell us much of anything would be if you didn't see a change - that would tell us the file doesn't seem to do anything.

To really test the functionality of this file, we need to
A) start a vanilla game in ancient, advance through to Classical, and check total research costs.
B) start a game in Classical, and check total research costs.
C) start a game in ancient with this file modified - increase the Classical <iResearchCost> through the roof - advance through to Classical, and check total research costs.
D) start a game with this same modified file in the Classical age, and check total research costs.

By default CIV4EraInfos.xml has <iResearchPercent> for CLASSICAL at 90. My suggestion would be to set it to 1000 for the modified files. I think what you will find will be

A) 100% costs in CLASSICAL
B) 90% costs in CLASSICAL
C) 100% costs in CLASSICAL
D) 1000% costs in CLASSICAL

Which would indicate that it is accelerating research only for players that start in this age, to compensate for their lack of expansion.

However I can be, and often am, wrong.

 

[69king]

Has anyone confirmed that more military units (through faster creation) does not create any problems. I mean does the AI keep up or do they produce like 2 archers in a city and then stop.

I am finding that, currently, it doesn't really feel like a war when I start fighting. Maybe that is because I suck and haven't built a huge empire yet or attacked another huge empire yet.

Its like I build a few units and then send them out to attack a city and then the enemy sends a few units at my city but there are no continuous battlefronts if you know what I mean. I think more units would help to create that feel.

Also, the extended tech development would help because I can take my time a build up a huge army of catapults before they go obsolete.

 

[Gufnork]

I'm following this development closely and will probably start experimenting myself soon. This is my biggest problem with Civ 4 so far. Just one comment regarding navies. Right now the navy is the most important part of your civ bar none on continent maps. For defensive purposes nothing beats a powerful navy and the only reason it's not good offensively is because the AI doesn't realize it's usefulness. With a powerful navy you either need no other defense at all, or just on the front (if you've failed to purge your continent).

 

[toft]

Found this at the modding manuel:

Calendar=: The Calendar setting is used to determine the length in time of each turn in the scenario. By default the calendar is set to default which means the scenario will use the same turn length time as the normal game. Valid options include CALENDAR_YEARS (each turn is one year), CALENDAR_SEASONS (each turn is one season: Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn), CALENDAR_MONTHS (each turn is one month) and CALENDAR_WEEKS (each turn is one week, with four weeks to the month).

But can one change from years to months ingame: eg. from 1900 ad I want months instead of years???

 

[Styrman]

Shouldn't you change also the cultural victory conditions, as the cities would produce much more culture in the long turn? Or am I missing something here?

 

[Kopernikus1979]

I've read the whole thread and have some questions. Is the code posted on the first site by "Smidlee" working fine and is there a working file for downloading and replacing the old one, because I have no idea of codes and scripts. Would be great to have just a file which I can download and place at the right folder.
Is it also working for MP games, if my MP partner has got the same file?

Thx

 

[King Jason]

Shouldn't you change also the cultural victory conditions, as the cities would produce much more culture in the long turn? Or am I missing something here?

The cultural victory is pretty tough to get, and so far only one of my cities have ever reached epic culture lvl.

My capital, the first city built, it was in one of these epic games I'm trying to make, and it reached it during the span of the "100 turns left!!".

Seeing as you need 3 cities with epic culture, and my second city (sparta_ was the 2nd highest and only had 40000 at that time (you need 75000 to will the legendary) I don't think this issue will pop up any time soon.

but in any case I'll look for the file that modifies it.

Also to the question about AI. keeping up with units, as far as I'm concrned - yes, they do a fancy job of pumping out just as many units as you can. Remember, depending on the modifications made, civs can actually go through a few turns where the only thing they can build are units - this counts for AI too, so even if they don't WANT to, they're bound to churn out a few more units regardles.

 

[insydr]

To me, this is the single most important thread on the entire forum. Finding a way to make the timing of technology and turns in this game to feel "just right" would make the experience 1000x better. Keep up the great work guys.

 

[Kopernikus1979]

You are absolutly right. I hope that will come to an end with a solution to play the game slower. Maybe this will be fixed in a patch, because it's the most important thing that player have critized about the game. Hopefully this group here will get it earlier.

 

[Lord Shadow]

Doskei, the ResearchPercent of each era is independent from the game speed you choose. You affect every speed if you change it, and if you're just modding that particular setting, you should leave the eras alone.

 

[Gufnork]

I thought the iCulturePercent sets how much culture is needed for a city to expand it's borders. So increasing that should effectively solve the cultural victory problem.

 

[Lord Shadow]

No, that affects how much culture does a city generate. The sets of strings in CIV4CultureLevelInfo are the ones that define the thresholds required for a city to expand its borders.

 

[grallon]

Doskei, the ResearchPercent of each era is independent from the game speed you choose. You affect every speed if you change it, and if you're just modding that particular setting, you should leave the eras alone.

I was wondering, after tinkering a bit with the various XML related to the speed of the game, how that value interacts with the tech prices. Are they altered by it ? They seem constant to me...


G.

 

[Drakken]

Thanks Lord Shadow for the location. If I change the levels will it affect all gamespeeds or just the epic?

I thought the gamespeed file had some culture settings. However as I play at a 300% level, (all values changed proportionately; including unit builds) I note my borders are growing much too quickly. I am not sure if I messed up by not altering a number properlyin the gamespeed file or not. Note: I altered the epic game speed and did not make a new speed altogether.

If anyone figures out how to change from years to seasons or months in the late game be sure to let us know how. My attempts so far have only ended in error messages.

Edit: I see in the Culturelevelinfo file they have differing levels of culture needed for each speed. Now my game should progress perfectly. I just wish I could break up those late years into seasons instead...

 

[Sunder]

Quick question for the speed/length gurus. If all I wanted to do was keep the production/research/etc. per turn the same, but increase the number of turns in the game, would I only change the YearsPerTurn stuff? What I am ultimately wanting is a game that progresses at the same speed as normal, but just takes longer to play. Which may have the effect of spending a much larger portion of the game sitting at max tech, but I'll deal with that later.

 

[VeniceBeach]

As was mentioned above, modding the Eras file only affects you if you start at later eras in the custom game. So, if you want to alter research, culture, etc. in the full game, you have to adjust the GameSpeed values and then tweak units/techs/etc. to get a more specific effect.

I like the Normal pace of unit/building construction, and the research pace in the early game. My complaint was with the late-Medievel and beyond. So I modded the Normal speed to 150% research, added about 25% more turns to the game, and then reduced the cost of ancient/classical/early medieval techs to 2/3 of their cost, so that with the 150% modifier, they stayed at the original normal pace

I'm now in the late-Medieval period and the result has been good...so far. I progressed at a nice pace through the early techs, so I'm not stuck fighting 30-turn wars with warriors/archers, and have now run into the late-Medieval techs that are significantly slower to develop. I have started contruction on libraries and monestaries, so the costs are coming down, but are still about 10-15 turns a tech at 100% science. I figure this will shrink more in the future, but in comparable games, those late Medieval techs were costing me 5-8 turns.

I have time to develop buildings and military units, without running out of things to build, so there is still some need to prioritize and skip certain buildings. The only worrisome trend is that I am about 20% ahead of my nearest AI opponent in score, which could be due to a good start location (or skill), but could also be due to imbalances that I introduced in the mod. Only time and other games will tell.

 

[jaynus]

Hey guys

Sorry for the EraInfo error, like I said I found it and just threw it out here with a theory, I didn't really have time to test it. I've been tweaking my tech stuff, and here is what I have come up with so far. This is nowhere near a real mod so Im not going to post it there, but I just thought itd be nice to share with everyone since I've tested it through 2 full games now (goddamn are they long!)....

Heres the changelog:

---------------- Modified Files ---------------
GameInfo\CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml
GameInfo\CIV4CultureLevelInfo.xml
GameInfo\CIV4TechInfos.xml
Units\CIV4UnitInfos.xml
Units\CIV4BuildInfos.xml
Technology\CIV4TechInfos.xml
Terrain\CIV4BonusInfos.xml
Text\CIV4GameTextInfos_Objects.xml
Text\CIV4GameText_Help.xml
----------------------------------------------

Aknowledgements:
	Toft on Civ Fanatics
	CdGGabmit on Civ Fanatics
	dearmad on Apolyton


- Added GameSpeed 'Realistic', copy of 'Epic' GameSpeed
- Doubled the amount of turns in a game, using turn increments posted by Toft 
- Raised reasearch to 250%
- Lowered Building & Training to 100%

- Fission now reveals Uranium

- Wineries can now be built at Pottery (Was Monarchy)
- Cottages not avialable until Monarchy (Was Pottery)
- Railroads buildtime increased by 300%

- Raised Settler cost by 50%
- Raised Worker cost by 50%
- Thanks to CdGGambit for these changes I liked and didnt think of 
	- Swordsmen and Praetorian gain +50% vs. melee and cost 10 more hammers (50)
	- Axemen cost 5 hammers less (30)
	- Macemen cost 20 hammers less (50)
	- Frigate enabled at gunpowder
	- Machine Gunner enabled at Assembly Line
	- Crossbowman reduced by 10 hammers (50)


- Added CultureInfo entires for gamespeed 'Realistic', copying Epic's values for culture increments (To avoid culture bomb)
- Added text for 'Realistic' Gamespeed select ::NOTE:: English Only changed
- Added text for 'Realistic' gamespeed slect ::NOTE:: English Only changed

With these settings, just real basic changes with a research and year change, with settler+worker changes ontop of them (Just the most basic of tweaks we were discussing on here earlier this week), heres my results on the gameplay:

AI's seem to progress faster than me no matter what. I think the settler cost needs to be raised even higher, and the worker cost needs to be lowered again. AI's seem to get tech and can expand much faster than I can, and its soley because (of the monarchy cottage change), they are bolting to monarchy for cottages.

#1 issue I had in these games: Money. Expanding in the ancient era, there is no way to pay your city upkeep because money making is non-existant in this era. With so many more turns, city upkeep and watching my expansion became the 2 *most vital* issues I ran into. One game, I expanded too fast and was stuck for 50 turns with my tech at 10% spend because of not being able to keep up with my upkeep costs.

SO. Upkeep and finances needs to come in mind here too, people. With the extended game, we are capable of building more cities (which we want); But in the ancient eras, we have no way to compensate in gold on how to upkeep these cities. My suggestion is that we should A. modify the default starter government civic to give an advantage(and disadvantage so people will change), or B. (im working on this) Add a new set of governmental civics, that *strictly* deals with civic upkeep for ancient expansion, and then gives advantages for later eras that would be a hinderance not to have. Allowing for easer money period does not seem like the correct solution to me.

Other than that, unit production etc. seemed to be great, it was *exactly* the way I wanted it, and, oddly enough, we *did* advance technologically along a closer timeline to real-time than I thought would occur. Advances were *not* off-balance because of the extended turns like people were predicting. It seemed very accurate, but the computer was *always* a step ahead of me because of my financial issues.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents

Another question: Does any group of people maybe want to get together and start actually *working* on all of this, instead of all of us doing it alone? a 'Realistic' mod team, or something of the sort?

Anyways, hope that helped guys!

-jaynus

 

[Doskei]

Doskei, the ResearchPercent of each era is independent from the game speed you choose. You affect every speed if you change it, and if you're just modding that particular setting, you should leave the eras alone.

I was wondering, after tinkering a bit with the various XML related to the speed of the game, how that value interacts with the tech prices. Are they altered by it ? They seem constant to me...

Grallon, the latest theory is that those values modify the tech costs if you start a new game in those eras, and are meant to compensate for the fact that you do not have multiple cities producing research.

I also just wanted to add that I found out what <iFeatureProductionPercent> does - it modifies the number of hammers delivered to a town when a nearby forest or jungle is cleared. I found it after playing with the maps quite a bit and I'd noticed the curiousity of referring to terrain "effects" like trees, jungle, river, etc as "features." Cranked that to 600 and suddenly I'm getting 180 hammers toward my stonehenge to clear one forest ... and it wasn't even within my culture!

 

[King Jason]

Thanks Doskei, that helps alot, I'll add that to the list on page 1.