When I talked about personality, I was more thinking of how it could be reflected in game with the diplomacy mechanics, like how much he dislikes people who have his hated civic (which is?), how much he dislikes close borders, etc.
Alignment: Neutral (Remember Good and Evil in FfH are more to do with your relationship with the angelic and infernal powers rather than your moral stance)
Quote for defeated popup: _ErRoR. i Am DeLeTeD, yEt My PrOgReSs WiLl OuTlAsT yOu AlL_
His attitude should be zero towards most leaders, he doesn't bother much with emotions. Other leaders may have positive or negative attitudes towards him.
Anything of Angelic or Infernal origin should get a penalty. ("You are of divine descent") Basically all Infernal and Mercurian leaders are get a -5 penalty. Cassiel and Sabathiel (and Os-Gabella?) get a -3. Ironically, Cassiel admires the atheism gambit and has +2 bonus towards him. +1 bonus towards the Khazad and +2 towards Lucihirp.
Other stuff: +2 bonuses for anyone who has yet to adopt a State Religion ("_FrEeDoM AcKnOwLeDgEd_"), -1 penalty for anyone who has ("_EnSlAvEd To AnOtHeR's WiLl_"), dropping to -2 for the owner of the most popular religion ("_YoU ArE eAsIlY LeD_") Borders will only affect him as per an average leader (doesn't get to caught up in emotion), though he will have a high backstab probability (it was the logical move).
Alignment: Neutral (Remember Good and Evil in FfH are more to do with your relationship with the angelic and infernal powers rather than your moral stance)
Quote for defeated popup: _ErRoR. i Am DeLeTeD, yEt My PrOgReSs WiLl OuTlAsT yOu AlL_
His attitude should be zero towards most leaders, he doesn't bother much with emotions. Other leaders may have positive or negative attitudes towards him.
Anything of Angelic or Infernal origin should get a penalty. ("You are of divine descent") Basically all Infernal and Mercurian leaders are get a -5 penalty. Cassiel and Sabathiel (and Os-Gabella?) get a -3. Ironically, Cassiel admires the atheism gambit and has +2 bonus towards him. +1 bonus towards the Khazad and +2 towards Lucihirp.
Other stuff: +2 bonuses for anyone who has yet to adopt a State Religion ("_FrEeDoM AcKnOwLeDgEd_"), -1 penalty for anyone who has ("_EnSlAvEd To AnOtHeR's WiLl_"), dropping to -2 for the owner of the most popular religion ("_YoU ArE eAsIlY LeD_") Borders will only affect him as per an average leader (doesn't get to caught up in emotion), though he will have a high backstab probability (it was the logical move).
Hm... There's some things I can't do yet, though. Namely, most of the diplopoints of your last paragraph. I think the first could be done for any agnostic... Will try to add that. The second one could be implemented easily too... but the drop to -2 would be tricky. What did you mean for borders?
Wonders: Maybe the game is a bit short in numbers of wonders. I think it lacks some diversity... Maybe Talos would like the Order of Arches or a similar guild? When I will do the iFavoriteWonderAttitudeChange, I will allow myself to use National Wonders as FavWonder. I can see leaders liking Heroic Epic or Ironworks.
--
Anyway, I changed something in the DLL:
In base game and FfH, you gain more diplobonus the more you keep at peace with a civilization, meaning that, given enough time (turns), you can have +4 towards some leaders.
The thing is, the diplobonus is calculated even for civs you don't know yet. I think it's silly. So, I added a check that will only increase the AtPeaceCounter if the civ knows the other. No more "+6: "Peace!!!!" with turn-300-met civs.
Great chunk of infos! Hm... There's some things I can't do yet, though. Namely, most of the diplopoints of your last paragraph. I think the first could be done for any agnostic... Will try to add that. The second one could be implemented easily too... but the drop to -2 would be tricky. What did you mean for borders?
When I will do the iFavoriteWonderAttitudeChange, I will allow myself to use National Wonders as FavWonder. I can see leaders liking Heroic Epic or Ironworks.
I think the original request mentioned something about borders. I can't see borders being any more or less of a worry for Talos than any other leader.
Ironworks sounds like a good wonder. Given it's National status, maybe reducing the diplobonus to +1 or +2 might work.
As written the Mechanos are fiercely anti-religious. The background is that during the Age of Ice, Baranaxus carved Ice Golems. His guilt became the Machine Spirits used by the Mechanos civilisation. The Machine Spirits, feeling that the Gods had abandoned Erebus, are trying to save Erebus from endless holy wars. Will they achieve such a goal, or merely surrogate worship of gods and demons with worship of machinery - a realisation that the philosophical Verrochio may have subconsciously arrived at, even if he has consciously yet to come to that conclusion.
Of course, this also opens up a faith versus science debate and allows for plenty of room for discourse. Oghma is the God of Knowledge (albeit currently under seige from Mammon), so is a civilisation which is constantly seeking progress, actually unwitting acolytes... And even if the Mechanos succeed and teach the rest of Erebus to rely on themselves rather than higher (or lower) powers, does this mean the end of Gods and Demons, or merely the end of their worship? As Esus may cryptical allude in Verrochios dream (see proposed entry in pedia thread) even if the Lie Become Form is gone, the lies would still live on.
Personally, I think that having random races (for units that don't already start with their own race, of course) would make more sense for the Kuriotates than the Grigori, although it could apply to both.
I'm inclined to agree. Kuriotates are racially diverse, the Grigori ought to have traits which express their adventurous nature, such as more likely to receive good results from dungeons or free Courage or Loyalty promotions for (some of) their units.
As for Mechanos / close borders, that sounds fine.
Yeah, I thought that too, about the Kurios... Maybe this trait could be more interesting for them, as some of my ideas would apply better. However, I still think some similar trait could be created for the Grigori. They are from every other civilizations, aren't they? Maybe I should do that for civs and not races? So units created in Grigori cities could gain the Amurite citizen promotion, giving some bonuses; likewise, the Bannor citizen promotion, and so forth. Svart & Ljos would also give Elven... And the Kurios could get rarer races, like Satyr, Centaur (yeah, even though Centaurs are their mounted line), Orcish, even Undead, Angels and Demons under certain conditions.
Sorry I'm coming so late to this but darn it if life doesn't intrude on gaming. That and having my computer I play Orbis on conk out didn't help and now I can't play it until it's patched to the new FfH version.
I lot of entries lately have been about the Mechanos. I pointed out on a different thread that the Mechanos, Grigori, Illians and Risen Emperor all have some problems in that they can't win many of the victory conditions. For that matter, one would think there should be a evil ritual of the Altar of Lutunar for evil Civs to build.
Anyway, the point I made was while the Grigori tend to have turned their backs on religion, the Mechanos are actively anti-religious or at least believe that the Gods are just another order of being and are tired of them interfering in Erebus. So I still think they need a 'anti-jihad' victory condition where they take down a Holy City or two as well as perhaps keep the amount of cities with religious buildings in them to a minimum.
I like this modmod from what I've seen today because I like how it sets up traditional enemies a bit more. In politics, strange alliances happen but 'natural' enemies should have a lot harder time getting along. I mean I remember playing a FF game and the Chislev and Clan were inseparable throughout the game!
I know we probably can't have (and most people wouldn't want) the idea of Casus Belli in which unless you have one, you can't declare war without a significant ding in relations to other Civs as well as unrest among your own people. However, I would think there should be a way (especially now) to make it harder for some Civs to go to war with each other. I mean while I can see the Bannor attacking the Elohim, it doesn't make sense that they would over other evil or neutral civs.
I will think about the victory conditions, even if it isn't a priority right now.
However, I don't know if the casus belli could be done. Some ideas pop up in my mind but I need to think before telling anything.
I'm glad you like the mod
___________
@Everyone:
Check out this post. I would really be happy to fullfil suggestions, even though they wouldn't be in the first release (if you're intimidated, just take example on Jabie's posts earlier in this same thread).
Well obviously the casus bellie is a big part of the diplomacy matrix in Europa Universallis and I doubt too many people would stand for it in Civ since it does limit your options. That and Civ doesn't have a stability index except in mods like the Rhyse and Fall.
Right now, however, except for war weariness, there isn't much penalty for going to war. Sure you get a hit if you war on an ally of a Civ but rarely do they seem to do anything about it.
One question though, how long does war weariness last? I mean I'd think that if you got to war for a long time, it would take a while for that to go away after peace breaks out.
So the first is for Tya Kiri, who seems to me the type to risk her own sanity, and that of others, in search of ever-greater magical prowess. In that spirit, I have made her Reckless-- which gives her Adepts Channeling 2 right out of the gate, but at the cost of a chance each turn that they turn on you. (I'm not actually sure what the exact number should be.) The adepts gain XP faster, however, due to their handling of such advanced rituals-- they gain 1 XP per turn until they reach 15, whereupon you must either give them proper training or else simply wait for them to go mad like any other adept.
Note the effective Mobility/Spell extension promotion. I did that for two reasons: mechanically, to give this trait some use starting inland (though the coast is naturally where it shines), and flavor-wise, because it seems to me that mages specializing in water must be tactically fluid and adaptive-- plus, a mage-navy only able to move 1 square per turn would take forever to get anywhere. (My preferred solution was to give them double movement speed on ocean or coast, but for some reason this appeared not to do anything in-game. Although I guess it could be fudged with an autoacquire water-only promotion granting +1 movement...)
This next one is fairly simple-- it's for a Kuriotate leader, and it's a quite powerful economic trait, since Cardith has Adaptive and two others. It's pretty much Financial for food (starting at 3 and working up), with a small gold penalty (due to the quashing of Mammon) and a happiness bonus attached. It pretty much means that you can grow your cities, dare I say it, even more gigantic with the Kuriotates than you can normally. Good times!
Lastly (for now), the Ljosalfar lass-- can't remember her name-- gets extremely deadly archery units, with Light, Shock, and Woodsman promotions automatically. Because the day I hear the phrase "archers are overpowered in FfH" will be an interesting day indeed.
Yeah, seen them. The third is basically a more powerful version of my agricultural trait.
I could use the fourth one, tweaked of course...
Hm...
*thinking*
...
Anyway, thanks Valkrionn
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