Monarch Stalemate

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I rolled back a save and settled 1W of the Cow. I'll use this as my textbook case of what a Bureaucracy-Capital 'ought to look like.
I brought my Scout in a counter-clockwise swing East, and revealed more resources around, aswell as 2 possible sites of new cities;

Spoiler :

The Eastern site looks to be the first, as I can't yet build a Plantation for the Spices, although the Gold is tempting for an early research boost. I'm not happy with the overabundance of Plains tiles North of me where the Ivory all is. The only food source for a possible city there would by the Rice, but that only gives +1 ...
The Eastern site, on the other hand, is improvable almost immediately. Fishing can be researched in short time, and Masonry too, that Mining is my starting tech.

What I wasn't sure on was what I 'ought to be researching at the moment. I modified my original order to : Agriculture>The Wheel> Pottery> Bronze-Working.
I took that tech order over doing Bronze-Working first because I have many river tiles to be improved right now, whereas I don't have as many forests to chop.
I didn't need to improve the Cow resource yet, as each of the tiles I'm working will have 3 anyway, so it's not like I'm starving or anything.

I came across Ragnar and Mao aswell. I'm not too worried about them for the moment, except that Mao is right next door and could threaten to settle a possible site or two of mine.

At this point I'm thinking to finish researching Bronze-Working, and by that point having 2-3 Cottages built.
I will then research Fishing for my next site at the Coast. If I'm lucky there may be Copper in the hills between these two cities, and then there's the possibility for an early war with the Chinese.
After that I'm not sure. I think possibly Iron-Working so I can start pushing South into the Jungle, but also Animal Husbandry to work the Cow in Moscow and to open up a 3rd city East of my planned Coastal one.
I'll also swing my Scout South into the Jungle to try and find anything useful.

Am I doing right so far?

 

[sampsa]

Am I doing right so far?

T29 and zero improved tiles? No, you are doing something wrong. I'd definitely go AH first to get a 6-yield tile asap.

 

[lymond]

I didn't need to improve the Cow resource yet, as each of the tiles I'm working will have 3 anyway, so it's not like I'm starving or anything.

sorry, but that is faulty logic. It might be different if you had another food resources like corn, but thinking "oh, I have 3F tiles" is not good.

Yeah, man, I think I'd assumed you'd learned by now that food first is always most important. Fishing>Whatever is just very illogical. And then I think you went straight to BW. AH is the only logical first tech. And actually, I'd probably ignore the clam spot for some time. It's guaranteed backfill city, unless you don't have much options.

Think more about good spots that are in danger. Gold has me salivating so that certainly looks to be a good option.

I still would have settled on the plains hill. (note: in my original advice..the idea was to move settler one turn and then make a decision..in this case you could have made a decision on that turn and settled on turn 1)

Anyway, where you settled is fine.

(i thought I cured you of teching IW last time)

I might pop the scout on a couple more hills to NW to see AI, and then move him to spawnbust in the NE as that area could be a problem later, or spawnbust on hill around gold for now to keep safe for first settler. You've done some good scouting and jungle is not that important, and will just get him killed. You can move a warrior down there soon to spawnbust.

 

[Pangaea]

First of all, you have done a good job scouting without getting the scout killed, so that is good. However, I don't understand why you haven't farmed the banana, since you also did Agri first. What have the worker been doing until you got Pottery? Roads to city 2 from the off is... not good. Workers turns in the early game are incredibly important, and buildings those roads is a complete and utter waste. You can do that later, and may not even need them at all, for a very long time. A more sensible opening here would be to farm the banana and hopefully the timing would be okay to then improve the cow afterwards, because you should of course be doing AH next. Food is King. This can't be overstated, but apparently it hasn't been stated often enough.

Cottages are nice, certainly on floodplains, but they're not your number one priority. Food is. I'm fairly sure 4 is still a higher number than 3 And although the green cow doesn't give immense food, like wet corn for instance, it's an excellent tile to work, and greatly helps to boost settlers/workers too.

Another benefit with AH, particularly since you have scouted so well, is to know where Horses are located.

Think it would be good to lay out your thoughts for how you want to play BEFORE playing it. Then get comments so that we can point you in the right direction. Re-playing turns time and time again is probably a little frustrating.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I'll explain myself a little bit before going back to change anything:

If I work the Cow, It'll be a 4 tile, my city would grow too quickly for my worker to improve tiles. Should I be concerned about that?

(i thought I cured you of teching IW last time)

Right, sorry. Trade for Iron-Working.

Gold has me salivating so that certainly looks to be a good option

But there's no food by the Gold. The Spices would only give +1 when a plantation is propped up, and the only Floodplain could only give 4 too. That'd be okay, I figured, except that most of the tiles around the site are plains, and would limit the growth of the city.

I don't understand why you haven't farmed the banana

But Banana is a Calender resource (?). Why farm it for 4 when I'm going to be demolishing the farm later in the game anyway?

I'll roll back once more to when I settled the city. I'm happy with where I'm settled now. My tech path will be Agriculture> Animal Husbandry (For Cow and Horse)> Bronze-Working (For whipping and Copper).
I'll have my Scout probe around up North some more to find more sites, and I'll get the Worker on that Cow asap. After the Cow is done, I'll put the Worker mining the Grassland-Hill in my BFC (don't know what else I could do with it (?)), and then when Bronze-Working is finished I'll get chopping some Forests for a Settler, probably having the city at size 3, where I'll have Moscow working a Forest-Plains-Hill, the Cow, and maybe the Banana or another Forest-Plains-Hill.

 

[Pangaea]

Because you need food now. Why chop forests when you can work it for the next 500 turns? Because you need the benefit sooner.

I see very severe flaws in the logic here, so think it's best to let somebody else deal with it. Don't have the strength today. I'm sat here quadruple facepalming.

 

[lymond]

I'll explain myself a little bit before going back to change anything:

This is good as your explanations really held us drill down into the flaws of your logic. Not as criticism, but to really help you learn and see how to win at this game and move up levels.

If I work the Cow, It'll be a 4 tile, my city would grow too quickly for my worker to improve tiles. Should I be concerned about that?

And here is a very very major flaw in your thinking about this game. I have one word for you - "Slavery". Slavery is the single most powerful mechanic in this game..no one would argue this. Your thinking here is what will a citizen work based what your worker may or not be able to improve at some point in the future.

What you are missing is two important thoughts:

1) Food and Growth - keys to slavery and whipping. Whipping is turning food into hammers. In order to whip you need to grow for 4>2 or 6>3 pop whips. Each whipped citizen equals 30H. Excess hammers from a whip go to OF for basically free hammers into something else

2) Working specials. Specials are the resources. - food/commerce/production (ex. corn/gold/copper) Specials provide bonuses to these outputs. The sooner you have these improved the more bonus you are getting and the faster you a) grow b) research c) build.

You settled a a city with one food resource - cows. Your first and always first priority is to improve the best food in your BFC. You want your city to start growing as fast as possible so you can whip crap..namely settlers first.

So..your cap initial probably needs no more than 3 or 4 improved tiles..with focus on food specials first. Simply as you are going to whip. Once those first few improvements are made, then workers focus on chops and maybe roading to new city eventually. You certainly don't need to improve all the tiles in a BFC.

So as Pangaea pointed out, you improve nothing here at all and spent many turns roading to a city that you should not settle. I'll be blunt here and I say this only to provide you perspective on where you stand right now with that decision. It is basically noob level play.

Right, sorry. Trade for Iron-Working.

And again, for clarification, keep in mind that as you move up levels, AIs tech faster, so you will likely be able to trade for IW sooner than you think. AIs ..all AIs...always tech IW.

But there's no food by the Gold. The Spices would only give +1 when a plantation is propped up, and the only Floodplain could only give 4 too. That'd be okay, I figured, except that most of the tiles around the site are plains, and would limit the growth of the city.

It's all about the gold ..simple as that. Gold is OP in the early game. It's just so immensely sweet for your tech rate. City is food poorish with now food specials but it has farms and a fp that can be farmed, so it will be able to grow at some point. But your only real concern is working that gold, even at Size 1 for some time.

But Banana is a Calender resource (?). Why farm it for 4 when I'm going to be demolishing the farm later in the game anyway?

ha..because it's 4 food which is better than 3. More food is faster growth and you want that in the "NOW". I've said this before, Civ is about the snowball effect. More stuff more soonerer equals way more stuff later more soonerer.

Assuming you went AG>AH..your first two improvements are no-brainer, build farm on banana and pasture cow. what else would you have your worker do? build roads to nowhere? ...calendar is likely 50 to 100 turns away...and change a farm to a plantation is a totally painless process.

I'll roll back once more to when I settled the city. I'm happy with where I'm settled now. My tech path will be Agriculture> Animal Husbandry (For Cow and Horse)> Bronze-Working (For whipping and Copper).
I'll have my Scout probe around up North some more to find more sites, and I'll get the Worker on that Cow asap. After the Cow is done, I'll put the Worker mining the Grassland-Hill in my BFC (don't know what else I could do with it (?)), and then when Bronze-Working is finished I'll get chopping some Forests for a Settler, probably having the city at size 3, where I'll have Moscow working a Forest-Plains-Hill, the Cow, and maybe the Banana or another Forest-Plains-Hill.

you could just start chopping in preparation for you first settler instead. Mines are not urgent and are food deficit. You want to grow to size 4 to whip settler as soon as you can.[/QUOTE]

And lastly, as encouragement, once we can drill these deficiencies out of your game you will see so much improvement. So much of what you are doing wrong right now is why you can move up successfully.

 

[elmurcis]

But Banana is a Calender resource (?). Why farm it for 4 when I'm going to be demolishing the farm later in the game anyway?

Farming Banana early for extra food is always right choise if there is no other, stronger food source. You don't lose anything - at time Calendar "comes into game" workers should be more free for other job (might still have lot of job on Huge maps with 1X cities but not on Normal size maps)
For settler/worker production every yield (food+production) counts so "who the hell cares" if city grows fast? And here 4F2H Cow tile is 2 times (exactly 2 times) stronger than regular 3F0H Cow tile

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I read back on the last page, and retuned my strategy once more;

Spoiler :

I teched Animal Husbandry (to get the Cow immediately) > Agriculture (to farm the Banana and Floodplains > Bronze-Working (to start Whipping and to find Copper). I then started teching The Wheel and Pottery, wasn't really sure what else I needed there. The Wheel I knew I'd need to hook up the Gold once connected, and then Pottery to make Cottages at some point soon.
I pondered on teching Fishing and Sailing, but my Capital and the Gold river aren't connected so there'd be no trade there.
I think the next plot is to go Writing > Alphabet (to trade for older techs) > Currency (+1 trade route, and to build wealth) > Code of Laws (Courthouses (will I need them? I'm not too sure), Caste System (Artist specialist to expand borders of new cities, better than putting hammers into monuments and libraries for that purpose. Aswell as to get some Great People out there.

I tend to ignore Great People in my games more often than not. I felt that I should be pooling as much time and resources into and more , not taking citizens off of a mine to be waiting for a Great Scientist to arrive. - often not being able to bulb what I want him to bulb, often an earlier tech is selected.
Could someone explain to me the inept advantages of having several Great People throughout a game?

The Gold site needs settling. That's without question. It has Floodplains, easily usable for cottaging (although, is it safe to have such a great commerce city right next to Ragnar? After that, the Wine site further up river. That would cut off the Vikings from settling East.

You want your city to start growing as fast as possible so you can whip crap

I often hold myeslf back from whipping extensively due to the Anger that arises from doing so. What I do is; whip a unit out (preferably for under two population points), keep my city working its best-yielding tiles (Cow, Corn, wet Wheat etc) and then prevent growth for those 10 turns until I can repeat again. I feel that if I whip more than once in those 10 turns, I'm grinding my city down to nothing, as in, it can't work cottaged tiles or resources Gold/Copper etc.
However that was the old thinking. Now I think I should be whipping away as much as I can, to get those key spots settled, because I can let the city grow later on to accomadate those commerce tiles.

Each whipped citizen equals 30H

I need to start thinking of whipping like this. They're not people. They're a means of production. XD

But your only real concern is working that gold, even at Size 1 for some time

Is the yield of that Gold really so impactful? It's something I should be prioritising above other sites, yes?

So..your cap initial probably needs no more than 3 or 4 improved tiles..with focus on food specials first. Simply as you are going to whip. Once those first few improvements are made, then workers focus on chops and maybe roading to new city eventually. You certainly don't need to improve all the tiles in a BFC.

I have my Settler started at pop 4, working the improved Cow, the farmed Banana, one farmed Floodplain and a 2nd on the way. Are these the right tiles to be working? I was going to work only one Floodplain and have the 4th tile be one of the Forest-Plains-Hills, but I noticed that working the Floodplain has all of the benefits of those and the added 1

 

[lymond]

I think you may need to play shorter turnsets. You make too many bad decisions on your own without advice. Granted, replaying is not bad. It's all practice just the same.

First, Ag and Hunting are prereqs to AH. Each prereq provides bonuses to the tech. You start with hunting and know that you want to farm bananas, and want early pottery for cottages. I would have gone Ag then AH. I think AH would have timed about right for farm nanners and moving to cows. (note, if you have hunting you don't always need to tech Ag if not pressing..straight to AH is fine too depending on the resources, but here Ag>AH is good cause you know you want Ag)

Farming FPs is a waste here. You know you want to cottage those. Farming an FP is 8 turns which is a huuuuuge amount of turns to waste. After nanner farm and cows, I would have started chops for the first settler while growing to size 4. You can even pre-chop while waiting for growth. In 4>2 pop settler, without IMP trait, you can put a chop into Settler and whip soon after. A second chop after whip plus the OF from whip will finish a second worker very quickly.

So this turn you can whip the settler with some overflow (OF). If you had a chop ready for next turn, all that could go into a new worker. If you had put a chop into settler earlier, you'd be whipping sooner.

Whipping is done judiciously, not indiscriminately. One popping little units not so good as you are only whipping one pop and getting the 10t malus. (not that there you might 1pop whip something) 2 or 3 pop whip settlers gives you plenty of time to recover cause you are whipping more citizens - no matter how many citizens you whip you only get the 1 10t malus. Whipping a settler into a worker for instance, even give some turns of recovery without growth. You will be fine. Grow back and prepare for another settler, repeat. Whipping settlers and workers are the best thing early cause you are really turning food into hammers, since those units are built with food and hammers. Also, 2 popping units like axes are great for early rushes.

Whip anger is just something you learn to manage. Also, keep in mind that an angry citizen is worth just as much as a happy one. You don't want to run unhappiness long, but as long as you are whipping off multiple citizens there is no problem to growing unhappy for a couple of turns. Don't whip whip whip, but whip judiciously. Very early, the 4>2 or 6>3 settler whips into workers should work quite fine timing wise. Oh and get the granary up soon too to speed up growth. Peter is Exp, so granary is real cheap. There's a reason granaries are the most important building in the game.

Start looking at the math of the city production bar and whipping mechanics. I don't want to overburden you with it, but it is something to learn, especially in terms of whip OF.

yes, Gold is hugely impactful, and you should notice so when you improve it. It's boosts research, provides happy, and helps pay for expansion. You don't always have to rush to settle it first, but the sooner the better. It's huge on higher levels.

I think the next plot is to go Writing > Alphabet (to trade for older techs) > Currency (+1 trade route, and to build wealth) > Code of Laws (Courthouses (will I need them? I'm not too sure), Caste System (Artist specialist to expand borders of new cities, better than putting hammers into monuments and libraries for that purpose. Aswell as to get some Great People out there.

That's an okay plan. Caste System is usually something you use in Golden Age for GPP, and late game with workshops. You don't just run it for artists. You don't need border pops quickly if you settle city appropriately. And likewise don't always need monuments. (although Spiritual trait for temp running Caste can be nice)

edit: Oh..I might work in Maths first ..maybe more important than alpha. AIs can be slow to Alpha on this level, but likewise you may not want to trade with them much early on. Maths leads to Currency too. But either way is fine. AIs like Maths too, but it is a pretty important tech for the chops boost.

I tend to ignore Great People in my games more often than not. I felt that I should be pooling as much time and resources into and more , not taking citizens off of a mine to be waiting for a Great Scientist to arrive. - often not being able to bulb what I want him to bulb, often an earlier tech is selected.
Could someone explain to me the inept advantages of having several Great People throughout a game?

Very early focus is on food and getting out settlers workers..so yeah, that is important. Mines not so important as it slows growth. Although, if you have copper the yield is so nice, so that should be worked always. You work your specials and whip the rest. Yes, great people are hugely important to the game. Your first goal after the first 2 or 3 settlers (once secondary cities can take on that production) is a library in cap. Run two scientists for first GS for academy in cap..this is almost always what you do as soon as you can. Huge boost to tech, which will just get better as cottages grow and later when you run Bureaucracy. At some point later, around 1AD you will look to run a golden age. Getting Great Artist from Music is one good way to do this, or just use the second GP you pop. Prior to this cities will focus on as much growth as they can handle. Run Golden Age, and spit out as many GS as you can. Bulb Philosophy, Paper, Edu (2 bulbs) or just Education, depends on how many GS you can pump out. This is the typical Lib bulb path. There are other things you can do as well with bulbing. You don't bulb early techs, although sometimes on highest levels, if Philo trait (which actually you are this game), I might bulb Maths.

By the way Philo trait is one of the very top traits...you will get your first two great people very fast.

Note: I'd like to see you start to overlap cities are at least settle more compactly. City distance maintenance is a pretty big factor in the game, and just get worse as you move up. Overlap and tile sharing is a great thing and helps to build cottage growth for Bureau cap. Copper city is far away and is something you need to settle probably sooner than later, so that will take some maintenance, so offset that by settling other cities as close as you can. (by the way, clam city with horses not a bad move at some point)

edit: Lastly, for some perspective longer term. Yeah, initially you are in an expansion phase, so looking to whip to get out the first 4 to 6 cities. Or maybe 2 or 3 and look for an early rush on someone. But at some point you relax a bit on the expansion phase and start letting cities grow, especially your cap.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I'll take it more slowly then. XD
Little steps at a time.

I didn't even consider the reduced research point cost of going Agriculture first. Silly mistake.

I'll be sure to whip away Moscow for Settlers and Workers soon, preferably for 2 population at least, rather than 1, to offset that Anger.

Spoiler :

I farmed the Banana, and pastured the Cow. My Worker was left with nothing to do for 7-8 turns before Bronze-Working. I put him to sleep until then.
I have Moscow grown to size 4, working the Banana, Cow, a Floodplain and one of the forested Hills. I produced 3 or 4 Warriors already, and have them off to the sites to be settled soon.

I reworked my sites and that again, and drew them closer, as advised;

Spoiler :

I'll have the Ivory site work the Cottages I'll make on the Floodplains, and the Plains-Hill site will do the same with cottaged Grasslands. I'm unsure which order to settle them in. Possibly Westward first.
I'll wake the Worker next turn to begin chopping forests for the Settlers.

How's that all looking?

 

[elitetroops]

My Worker was left with nothing to do for 7-8 turns before Bronze-Working. I put him to sleep until then.

The worker had plenty to do. If nothing else, he could have farmed a floodplain for you. You also have hills in your BFC that could have been mined (mainly the grass hill). This might seem like a tiny mistake, but it is huge. Getting faster growth from that extra food yield from a farmed floodplain, or some 4 yield mines to speed up your next settlers makes a massive difference later in the game. Early in the game your worker should never ever sleep (nor should they really ever do that). The early worker turns are some of the most important moves you make over the course of a game.

 

[sampsa]

I guess there was just too much contradictory advice. But yeah, building roads for +10 turns or *gasp* putting a worker to sleep for 7-8 turns in the early game is something that you should not be doing. 4 is much better than 3.

Russian starting techs are a bit unfortunate for this start, and people giving you advice didn't think things through well enough.

The next city sites for me would be:

1) a helper city 3N of capital (claims also horse and elephant after border pop).

2) cow+gold(+rice after pop) in the NE, however this requires that the area is well guarded which requires many warriors (chariots?)

3) gold+fp in NW (not the spot you have marked, but 1SE from gold)

4) clams

 

[lymond]

^^^ Yeah, I like those city spots a lot. I settled gold+fp first - in my brief trial - as I knew where the AIs were and felt the spot in danger, where everything to the E is backfill. (although cow+gold to good to be "backfill" ha)

3N is perfect helper spot. (psycho, these cities are great for sustaining cottage growth long term , not to mention have lower maintenance costs)

Yeah, I try to caveat things all the time, as things are so situational. In the previous playthrough where Psycho farmed a FP, he already had BW. The point was that he should have been chopping instead of farming FP. But I agree that an FP can certainly be farmed, and certainly if the worker has nothing better to do. Ideally though I would not farm an FP I really plan to cottage, if the worker had better things it can be doing..or unless food is really at a premium.

Psycho..you should be whipping that settler.

and workers should never be idle..except in those unfortunate cases where your leaders starting techs are so horrible and don't match the land you are dealt.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Reworked the sites once more - in-line with Sampsa's advice.

Spoiler :

The sites I picked previously there are good, right? I can't see why they're any less favourable than the new ones I have plotted in. My Ivory city would act as a Helper to the Capital, as would the Plains-Hill city West of the Capital. The Gold city would have all of the food it needs by having the Floodplains, and likewise for my Horse and Wine city.
They're all compact, and spaced adequately.
I assume the Spices are why you moved my planned Gold city South-East a bit (?)

I had the Worker farm a Floodplain in the 7 turns before the 8 turns leading into Bronze-Working, and then proceeded to chop forests around the Capital. The city grew to size 5 - giving +1 Anger, but I whipped that away with a 2 pop Settler once Bronze-Working came around the next turn. I intend to have the Worker chop another forest, which will time for a 1 pop whip for the next Settler.
Another thing about whipping - I assume it's a bad idea to whip several Settlers/Workers in a row? The city isn't growing any and the whipping brings it back down right to its base. Although the growth from Size 1 is very fast, I guess (?)

The first Settler is headed to the Gold site, and the second will go to the Horse site. I have Warriors placed there already, that I trained after my Worker was finished.

I'm researching The Wheel > Pottery - to get some commerce going in my Capital, because this rapid expansion will drain my economy, surely. (?)

I'll do my best to keep my Worker busy.
Sleep = BAD!

From what I understand about Helper cities - they work the Cottages built around the Capital whilst the Capital whips Settlers and Workers out, right?
But how does that work later on in the game? When Settlers are no longer needed?
The 2 cities will be contesting for the same land... unless the idea is to have one much smaller than the other? (the Horse/Ivory site?)

I'd best keep in mind from now on the importance of early game. It's a bit of a Snowball Effect, isn't it?
Those 2-3 turns that you had your Worker sleeping for may cost you big time down the road.

 

[elitetroops]

I intend to have the Worker chop another forest, which will time for a 1 pop whip for the next Settler.

1 pop whips should be almost completely avoided. The only time I do those is if I really need an army out fast, such as when facing a surprise DoW and 1 pop whipping is the only option to get out defenders before losing a city. Problem with one pop whip is that you get as much whip anger regardless of whip size. Hence 1 pop whips don't work at all for managing happiness.

Whipping cities down to pop 1 is also almost always a bad idea. You want to be working your good tiles. Here, with cow and farmed floodplain+banana, 2 popping from pop 5 to pop 3 or 4-2 is probably ideal. In your situation, I wouldn't be building the next settler at pop 3, but build something else to grow at least to pop 4, then switch to settler and 2 pop whip it. Exactly when to switch depends on lots of factors.

Helper cities have lots of things to do in the late game. For example work farm and specialists, or build/whip units. If aiming for a military victory, you won't need to grow any cities but your capital very big. You want to tech to your target military tech as fast as possible, then very quickly whip/chop/build a military to conquer the world.

 

[lymond]

yeah, I think Psycho missed my bit on whipping settlers. 4>2 or 6>3 whips

Psycho - I assumed you 2pop whipped that first settler just now. I would take the overflow(OF) from that whip and put it into a new worker (EXP bonus) and use new chop to finish that worker. Then grow on new warrior to size 4 and start new settler. New worker can road to new city and improve gold.

I would keep your spawnbusting warriors a bit further out from your city. barbs don't now spawn in the visible tiles next to city borders. A single unit can spawnbust a 5X5 tile area from the tile the unit stands on. A very effective way to limit or prevent barb spawn.

yeah, sampsa was right that my earlier advice about farming FP was contradictory in terms of the timing of techs and what a worker should be doing. the extra food can help, but generally i would avoid farming FP if my worker actually did have something better to do like chopping. In this case, farming the FP was best over an idle worker. another option may have been going for the cheaper Pottery tech first, but that would slow you overall production.

The placement of cities is more about city distance maintenance. While your original plots were not necessarily bad at all, the were quite far away without making use of all your land. This gets more important as you move up levels and distance maintenance increases dramatically.

Horse helper city will never be a gigantic city, but the important thing is what is does for you early. It costs very little, gives you horses, and keeps cottage growth going for your Bureau cap, which ..trust me..pays off nicely. Still, later it can get a few farms and have some reasonable production, It is not a bad city on its own.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Alright, so I got the Settler out and moved it over to the Gold site...

Spoiler :

I was about 1-2 turns too late for the city, so I rolled back the autosaves a couple, changed the work orders a little (changing a Warrior >Settler) until I beat the Vikings to the city. Ragnar must have swung his Settler up North a bit because a couple of turns later he settled the Wine site West of the River.
I put the overflow of the whipping into a new Worker - (I didn't realize Expansive can really impact that Worker speed so much)
I moved my Warriors further out a bit and have my Scout spawnbusting now. Can I expect Barb cities to appear soon?
I have my new Settler at the Horse site, ready to settle.
And I'm also researching Writing >Mathematics now.

When should I get my Workers making Cottages? Should I chop for a while longer?
I also mined the Gold, and have it being connected right now. St Petersburg's went from 0.7 all the way right up to 8.3! Quite a difference. XD

Looks like all of these little decisions that I otherwise would have just done away with are adding up. Ragnar would have beat me to the Gold site if I hadn't the farms built to get the Settlers out on-time, aswell as the timing for Bronze-Working.

Glad we're finally off the starting block. :O