[NFP] Monopolies and Corporations Game Mode Discussion Thread

[Zaarin]

I gave recently to my brother (he is a cook) an old (very old) book of recipes.

Not strange at all. I'm literally preparing tuh'u, a Babylonian lamb stew for the Akitu Festival, at this very moment.

 

[Ticio]

Not strange at all. I'm literally preparing tuh'u, a Babylonian lamb stew for the Akitu Festival, at this very moment.

It is the first time I heard of it! I checked it on internet and seems quite good, I'm going to try it!

The oldest dish I ever had was a Spartan dish that my brother did during his cuisine studies...it was disgusting... hahahaha!!

 

[Zaarin]

It is the first time I heard of it! I checked it on internet and seems quite good, I'm going to try it!

This is my first time making it, but so far it tastes really good.

The oldest dish I ever had was a Spartan dish that my brother did during his cuisine studies...it was disgusting... hahahaha!!

Black broth? Haven't had it, but it definitely doesn't sound appetizing at all...

 

[Deggial]

Before you guys go overboard with what multiple corporations and their products will be able to achieve for your civ ... remember that each new corporation will need a great merchant to found it!

How many foundings do you think will be reasonable in one play through?
Have you already made up your minds, which great merchants you are willing to “sacrifice“? I certainly won’t use any of the luxury ressource granting. Others are too useful as well, e.g. Adam Smith and Rockefeller.

So, how many “disposable” ones remain?
For me, it would be tourism related ones, like Sarah Breedlove.
But how many of them will I be able to get? And wouldn’t I still prefer the “big” ones, that provide the most useful bonuses by their own power?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Before you guys go overboard with what multiple corporations and their products will be able to achieve for your civ ... remember that each new corporation will need a great merchant to found it!

How many foundings do you think will be reasonable in one play through?
Have you already made up your minds, which great merchants you are willing to “sacrifice“? I certainly won’t use any of the luxury ressource granting. Others are too useful as well, e.g. Adam Smith and Rockefeller.

So, how many “disposable” ones remain?
For me, it would be tourism related ones, like Sarah Breedlove.
But how many of them will I be able to get? And wouldn’t I still prefer the “big” ones, that provide the most useful bonuses by their own power?

Colaeus seems disposable.

 

[Xandinho]

Am I the only one who thinks that Netherlands should be reworked for the game mode?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

The oldest dish I ever had was a Spartan dish that my brother did during his cuisine studies...it was disgusting... hahahaha!!

Black broth? Haven't had it, but it definitely doesn't sound appetizing at all...

“Black Broth a noxious, disgusting, unpalatable dish made of pig's blood, salt and vinegar.”

Here's a quote about the Black Broth which might explain the ferocity and willingness to die of the Spartans: "Now I do perceive why it is that Spartan soldiers encounter death so joyfully; dead men require no longer to eat; black broth is no longer a necessity."

 

[8housesofelixir]

Zhang Qian - Silk Resource

The more I think about it, I'm slightly disappointed that the mode only applies to luxury resources. Being able to produce superior units with the strategic resources could be consided a bonus in itself but the early ones (i.e. Iron and Niter) become obsolete in the late game to be of any interest... quite boring. Applying the extra bonuses to bonus resource could reevaluate chopping in a chopping-heavy meta currently.

A note about Zhang Qian, which can be related to @anonxanemone's and @Boris Gudenuf's "bonus to early strategics" ideas:

Zhang Qian's mission was essentially an strategic one, as his patron, Emperor Wu of Han, tried to use Zhang's influence to ally with Yuezhi in order to flanking Xiongnu from the west. When Zhang Qian's mission reached one of the Inner Asian states neighboring Yuezhi, Dayuan (in modern day Fergana), he noticed that there were a lot of very good horses in the region.

Emperor Wu, heard the news, began to value the horse a lot - China was not dominant in horse production, and fighting with Xiongnu required a great many horses. He then sent another mission to Dayuan, tried to buy the horses from the Dayuan king. The king refused, which made the lead envoy of the mission humiliated the king in the public, and the provoked king ordered his vassal to kill the whole mission on the road.

As a result, the deadly War of the Heavenly Horses broke out, which costed Han Empire at least 50000-70000 soldiers (most of them dead in the long march to reach Fergana and the long march to return), Dayuan Kingdom several thousand soldiers, and several kingdoms on the Silk Road being plundered and massacred by Han army. The primary gains from the costly war, for the Han empire, were just around 1000 horses from Fergana. But Emperor Wu was very happy, for he finally got hold of good quality horses for military use.

Therefore, I would say I am in wholly support about "Monopoly bonuses on strategics" as well; such monopolies had triggered long lasting influences on human history, something that should be reflected.

 

[Ticio]

This is my first time making it, but so far it tastes really good.


Black broth? Haven't had it, but it definitely doesn't sound appetizing at all...

I do not remember, it was sometime ago. it seems similar to the dish you mention "Black Broth" as it was made with blood. It was kidneys, with a sauce made of the lamb's blood.
Truly terrible! But I Do not remember anything else (Probably for the better).

Your tuh'u sound 100 times better! that for sure...

 

[Zaarin]

Zhang Qian's mission was essentially an strategic one, as his patron, Emperor Wu of Han, tried to use Zhang's influence to ally with Yuezhi in order to flanking Xiongnu from the west. When Zhang Qian's mission reached one of the Inner Asian states neighboring Yuezhi, Dayuan (in modern day Fergana), he noticed that there were a lot of very good horses in the region.

I'm currently reading Jin Yong's A Hero Born and just read the part where he described that expedition.

 

[Ticio]

Before you guys go overboard with what multiple corporations and their products will be able to achieve for your civ ... remember that each new corporation will need a great merchant to found it!

How many foundings do you think will be reasonable in one play through?
Have you already made up your minds, which great merchants you are willing to “sacrifice“? I certainly won’t use any of the luxury ressource granting. Others are too useful as well, e.g. Adam Smith and Rockefeller.

So, how many “disposable” ones remain?
For me, it would be tourism related ones, like Sarah Breedlove.
But how many of them will I be able to get? And wouldn’t I still prefer the “big” ones, that provide the most useful bonuses by their own power?

My favorite ones are the merchants that give extra traderoutes!

For me these are sacred... I think I will sacrifice all the ones that give just gold and envoys.

 

[Xandinho]

I'm sure I will always sacrifice Mary Katherine Goddard. +1 diplomatic visibility with all civs? meh.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Am I the only one who thinks that Netherlands should be reworked for the game mode?

I talked about it on another thread but yes.

Their harbors already culture bomb and I could see their seaports holding more products than usual. Or maybe even have shipyards hold products to start earlier than other civs.

 

[Myomoto]

The new Mode is staying within the current parameters of the game and, frankly, taking the 'least difficult' approach to Economics: using Great Merchants but not really integrating them into the Corporations after they are founded, using Resources but only the Luxury/Amenity ones and then (so far) apparently only the 'natural' ones and not the manufactured ones coming from some Great Merchants.

Well, better than nothing.

Bu one can hope this is Firaxis Dipping Their Collective Toes into the economic game and willing to go much, much farther in Civ VII.

For instance, (and here I'm dragging out the dead horse and stick again) this version of the Corp/Monopolies mechanic begs for Resources to be divorced from rigid and game-long categories, and the use of a Resource tied to the technology level and able to change throughout the game.

So, Rice and Wheat are Food Resources early in the game, then requirements for Distilled Liquor Amenity/Luxury Resources, and maybe later requirements for Processed Foods Corporate Resource.

Iron is an early Strategic Resource, later required to make Railroad Improvements, Ironclads, Battleships, Tanks, Artillery and other military Units, but also allows cheaper Buildings (skyscrapers, modern Urban structures, Factories)

Niter is also a component for modern Fertilizer, so has potential Strategic and Food/Bonus properties, and can be manufactured in Nitraries or, after discovering the Haber Process (Industrial Chemistry Tech?) in specialized Factories or Structures.

And all of them should be tradable to whoever needs them for whatever purpose: the greatest sheer tonnage of trade in the world today is in Raw Materials: ores, oil, food stocks, while the greatest value/ton is in Manufactured Resources of all kinds.

And Manufactured Resources like cheap clothing, personal automobiles, personal electronics, etc, should start replacing many of the 'natural' Luxury/Amenity goods after the beginning of the Industrial Era and later in the game - and are an obvious place for Corporations to make their mark, as Sole Manufacturers or Monopoly Manufacturers of those 'artificial' Resources

I have a lengthy post in the suggestions forum proposing a similar system, even going so far as eventually having a global market place to trade resources and stocks. I definitely hope Firaxis make deeper economic gameplay a priority in 7.

 

[AntSou]

Maybe +30% production to wonders in the city to mirror the Elephant bonus?

I'd bet that's what they are going for, but probably 20% not 30%.

 

[Ticio]

I'm sure I will always sacrifice Mary Katherine Goddard. +1 diplomatic visibility with all civs? meh.

Unless you are Mongolia! I think it is a +6 CS!

 

[anonxanemone]

Unless you are Mongolia! I think it is a +6 CS!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

A note about Zhang Qian, which can be related to @anonxanemone's and @Boris Gudenuf's "bonus to early strategics" ideas:

Zhang Qian's mission was essentially an strategic one, as his patron, Emperor Wu of Han, tried to use Zhang's influence to ally with Yuezhi in order to flanking Xiongnu from the west. When Zhang Qian's mission reached one of the Inner Asian states neighboring Yuezhi, Dayuan (in modern day Fergana), he noticed that there were a lot of very good horses in the region.

Emperor Wu, heard the news, began to value the horse a lot - China was not dominant in horse production, and fighting with Xiongnu required a great many horses. He then sent another mission to Dayuan, tried to buy the horses from the Dayuan king. The king refused, which made the lead envoy of the mission humiliated the king in the public, and the provoked king ordered his vassal to kill the whole mission on the road.

As a result, the deadly War of the Heavenly Horses broke out, which costed Han Empire at least 50000-70000 soldiers (most of them dead in the long march to reach Fergana and the long march to return), Dayuan Kingdom several thousand soldiers, and several kingdoms on the Silk Road being plundered and massacred by Han army. The primary gains from the costly war, for the Han empire, were just around 1000 horses from Fergana. But Emperor Wu was very happy, for he finally got hold of good quality horses for military use.

Therefore, I would say I am in wholly support about "Monopoly bonuses on strategics" as well; such monopolies had triggered long lasting influences on human history, something that should be reflected.

The "In Game" Zhang and the IRL Zhang Qian are two entirely different people. IF I were modding a Zhang closer to reality, he's definitely be related to Strategic resource accumulation through Diplomacy or Trade or Both. It would require a major rework of the game, but he really should be a Great Scout as much as a Great Merchant!

Come to think of, Off Topic as usual, but a potential (Civ VII I suspect) new Great Person:

Great Explorer: combining aspects of a Scout, Diplomat, Apostle and Merchant, in that he can potentially convert Barbarians to your side, open Trade Routes, explore new territory and make Diplomatic Agreements with Civs or City States.
Let's see, move Colaeus and Zhang here and possibly Marco Polo and Zheng He, add some new names like Cook, Lewis and Clark, and Burton . . .

“Black Broth a noxious, disgusting, unpalatable dish made of pig's blood, salt and vinegar.”

Here's a quote about the Black Broth which might explain the ferocity and willingness to die of the Spartans: "Now I do perceive why it is that Spartan soldiers encounter death so joyfully; dead men require no longer to eat; black broth is no longer a necessity."

It has been said that the excellence of an army is inversely proportionate to the quality of its rations.

Having had to eat both, I am convinced that the excellence of the Imperial Roman and the modern US Army is due entirely to Garum and C-Rations . . .

 

[Disgustipated]

reat Explorer

I would love to see this seeing I come from a state founded (in terms of the U.S. Government) by explorers and many of our place names are named after them, including the county in which I live.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Just realized that if products are considered Great Works, English Eleanor is going to have a lot of fun storing them in her Royal Navy Dockyard to flip cities.