[NFP] Monopolies and Corporations Game Mode Discussion Thread

[Myomoto]

I have a feeling that Mercury will produce about 20% more science in the host city.

Damn Big Thermometer propaganda.


They mentioned in the video that products from a corporation allows you share the industry bonus to other cities by shipping the product to a stock exchange. Basically you can send you thermometer science bonus to all your other cities, with each city able to hold up to 3 different products (I guess the special bank from Giovanni de' Medici can technically hold another 2 products?). However it seems that making a product is about 500 production, so it's a fairly big investment if you wanted to ship it to EVERY city.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The product I believes provides tourism to whichever city it's placed in. The industry/corporation provided 20% of culture to host city. So each looks to be different.

I don't expect furs, honey, or truffles to give a discount on production to military units unlike ivory.

Random thoughts:

Furs could affect how well you can exploit Snow or Tundra tiles and resources on them

Honey was an early Sweetener before refined sugar started rotting teeth and rumming everything, but it is also an antiseptic, so could influence Population Growth or speed of recovery of damaged units ('Health')

Truffles is an incredibly expensive food additive almost like Spices, so could affect values from other (Bonus) Food Resources?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Random thoughts:

Furs could affect how well you can exploit Snow or Tundra tiles and resources on them

Honey was an early Sweetener before refined sugar started rotting teeth and rumming everything, but it is also an antiseptic, so could influence Population Growth or speed of recovery of damaged units ('Health')

Truffles is an incredibly expensive food additive almost like Spices, so could affect values from other (Bonus) Food Resources?

While we're at this, could you explain the bonuses we saw in the video? The bonuses for Cocoa, Diamonds, and Ivory, how would they fit in historical context?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While we're at this, could you explain the bonuses we saw in the video? The bonuses for Cocoa, Diamonds, and Ivory, how would they fit in historical context?

Diamonds: Well manufacturing diamonds into rings, jewelry etc. would yield a great amount of gold. Definitely expensive products people want.

Ivory: Probably to demonstrate how elephants were used in warfare. I know some people have wanted them as a strategic resource for possible universal elephants units built by everyone, but this is a good alternative.

Cocoa: Not sure on this one except people love eating chocolate and eating = growth = the need for more housing. You also have to keep the Oompa Loompas somewhere just like the Ninja Turtles need the Sewers.

Also maybe they took the idea of the Coffeehouse from Civ 5 which were places where intellectuals usually met to discuss cultural ideas, which is why the coffee produces culture.

 

[Virdrago]

Cocoa: Not sure on this one except people love eating chocolate and eating = growth = the need for more housing. You also have to keep the Oompa Loompas somewhere just like the Ninja Turtles need the Sewers.

Also maybe they took the idea of the Coffeehouse from Civ 5 which were places where intellectuals usually met to discuss cultural ideas, which is why the coffee produces culture.

Plantations need housing for the workers. I see it sort of the same as farms creating housing for cities. Since it's an industry, the people come together where the crops are and create housing so they don't have to commute from the city centre.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Plantations need housing for the workers. I see it sort of the same as farms creating housing for cities. Since it's an industry, the people come together where the crops are and create housing so they don't have to commute from the city centre.

But specifically cocoa gives housing, while another plantation resource industry such as coffee doesn't seem to give housing at all.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

While we're at this, could you explain the bonuses we saw in the video? The bonuses for Cocoa, Diamonds, and Ivory, how would they fit in historical context?

@Alexander's Hetaroi already gave a pretty good summary, but I'd just add:

Cocoa was a religious and prestige drink in Mesoamerica, but chocolate drink and houses to do it in were almost as popular as Coffee Houses in Europe, so as well as Religious it has Amenity, Cultural, Political consequences (people sitting around drinking hot chocolate OR coffee tended to get into political discussion - there were several governments in 17th - 18th century Europe that debated banning coffee and chocolate public houses for 'security' reasons!). Frankly, I would have given it a Bonus related to Religion rather than Housing or Growth.

Diamonds are probably one of the most extreme Luxury/Amenity Goods in price per gram, and any large diamond attracts almost religious cult significance - look at the legends and stories surrounding the Hope Diamond or the Koh-i-Noor: great named Diamonds are, literally, Priceless.

Ivory has the obvious association with Elephants as War Animals, but again that is the simple and popular view: Elephants have also been nearly irreplaceable Work Animals for at least as long as they have been drafted into the military, to move large heavy things and aid in both regular and monumental construction. I would have been tempted to give them a Production Bonus, especially for Wonders.

On a related note, has anybody noticed how many of the Great Merchants in the game already are directly associated with a specific Luxury/Amenity Resource?

That begs the question, is there any sign that those relationships are going to be exploited in any way by the new Mode for 'extra' Bonuses?

Just at a glance, here's what I could see:

Colaeus (Kolaiois) - Silver Resource
Zhang Qian - Silk Resource
Jakob Fugger - Silver Resource - making better use of it, anyway: he's associated with the Joachimthaler silver coin that became the 'standard currency' in most of Europe
John Jacob Astor - Fur Resource
Melitta Bentz - Coffee Resource
Levi Strauss - Cotton Resource

Some of the other Great Merchants could also be used to 'enhance' Corporations: the bankers Bardi and Medici and finance minister Todar Mal are obvious, but also Adam Smith and Sarah Breedlove for Theory and Marketing and Rockefeller, the ultimate 'Monopolist'.

It would seem to be a shame not to utilize some of these existing Great Merchants to add 'spice' to the new Mode.

 

[anonxanemone]

The more I think about it, I'm slightly disappointed that the mode only applies to luxury resources. Being able to produce superior units with the strategic resources could be consided a bonus in itself but the early ones (i.e. Iron and Niter) become obsolete in the late game to be of any interest... quite boring. Applying the extra bonuses to bonus resource could reevaluate chopping in a chopping-heavy meta currently.

 

[Ticio]

My guess is mercury, unless that gives your units "immortality" like vampires.

In that case the turtles would be the next best option. Save the turtles.

I think you are right, my personal guess was somekind of bonus added to gold or to mines in cities with the product (with the use of amalgam), but maybe science could make sense too.

It would be cool if you could combine different products for combined bonus, like having somethin if you have silver and mercury!

 

[UWHabs]

Only "flaw" with having unique bonuses to luxuries is that there an awful lot of them in the game. Like, I can't imagine trying to keep track of all the different yields potentially from all of them. But if they can do that, then this is going to have an awful lot of interesting replay value, as now the 4 luxuries on your continent will matter way more than simply "oh, they're all plantations, so maybe I can think about the pantheon for them".

 

[Josephias]

Cocoa: Not sure on this one except people love eating chocolate and eating = growth = the need for more housing. You also have to keep the Oompa Loompas somewhere just like the Ninja Turtles need the Sewers.

Probably the association with kids and the "growing strong" of all those Nesquick adds... it is all I can think


Nevertheless, I've taken the list and we have an awful lot of luxury resources. ¿do you think each will have an unique bonus or some would be repeated?. Some ideas below
(Edit: doh! ninj'd)

Spoiler Resource List :

(confirmed by video) (probably) (not so sure)

citrus
cocoa: 20% growt, 3 housing to host city
coffe: 20% culture bonus to host city
cotton
diamonds: 25% gold bonus to host city
dyes
furs
gypsum: % production towards buildings / districts (to complete ivory and -likely- marble)
honey: if repeating bonuses, probably will take growt and housing like cocoa
incense % faith bonus or something to do with religious pressure
ivory: 30% production towards military
jade
marble: % production towards wonders (it did already benefit wonder production in previous games)
mercury: % science bonus
olives
pearls: if repeating bonuses, probably will take gold like diamonds
salt
silk: trade route capacity (liked @Alexander's Hetaroi idea in the post below )
silver
spices
sugar: if repeating bonuses, probably will take growt and housing like cocoa
tea:
tobacco
truffles
turtles
whales
wine

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Cocoa was a religious and prestige drink in Mesoamerica, but chocolate drink and houses to do it in were almost as popular as Coffee Houses in Europe, so as well as Religious it has Amenity, Cultural, Political consequences (people sitting around drinking hot chocolate OR coffee tended to get into political discussion - there were several governments in 17th - 18th century Europe that debated banning coffee and chocolate public houses for 'security' reasons!). Frankly, I would have given it a Bonus related to Religion rather than Housing or Growth.

I'm sure there are other resources in the game, like incense, that will give bonuses related to religion.

Also thinking maybe Silk could add trading capacity or can extend trade routes length from host city if we want to think of "Silk Road". At least the silk resource helped out with trading and movement in the board game.

On a related note, has anybody noticed how many of the Great Merchants in the game already are directly associated with a specific Luxury/Amenity Resource?

That begs the question, is there any sign that those relationships are going to be exploited in any way by the new Mode for 'extra' Bonuses?

Just at a glance, here's what I could see:

Colaeus (Kolaiois) - Silver Resource
Zhang Qian - Silk Resource
Jakob Fugger - Silver Resource - making better use of it, anyway: he's associated with the Joachimthaler silver coin that became the 'standard currency' in most of Europe
John Jacob Astor - Fur Resource
Melitta Bentz - Coffee Resource
Levi Strauss - Cotton Resource

Some of the other Great Merchants could also be used to 'enhance' Corporations: the bankers Bardi and Medici and finance minister Todar Mal are obvious, but also Adam Smith and Sarah Breedlove for Theory and Marketing and Rockefeller, the ultimate 'Monopolist'.

It would seem to be a shame not to utilize some of these existing Great Merchants to add 'spice' to the new Mode.

From what I saw it looks like you need to consume a Great Merchant to found a corporation instead of using it's other bonus, but it doesn't look like they are tied to a specific resource.

 

[Caprikel]

Only "flaw" with having unique bonuses to luxuries is that there an awful lot of them in the game. Like, I can't imagine trying to keep track of all the different yields potentially from all of them. But if they can do that, then this is going to have an awful lot of interesting replay value, as now the 4 luxuries on your continent will matter way more than simply "oh, they're all plantations, so maybe I can think about the pantheon for them".

It's very reminiscent of city-states and GP being given unique bonuses, so it definitely fits with the direction of the game. I'm certainly happy with what they've done with city-states having unique bonuses, so I'll be similarly happy to seeing luxury resources having their own way of giving unique bonuses.
I'm also happy to see more ways to make specific cities megacities by concentrating my product great works into specific cities.

 

[UWHabs]

It's very reminiscent of city-states and GP being given unique bonuses, so it definitely fits with the direction of the game. I'm certainly happy with what they've done with city-states having unique bonuses, so I'll be similarly happy to seeing luxury resources having their own way of giving unique bonuses.
I'm also happy to see more ways to make specific cities megacities by concentrating my product great works into specific cities.

I wonder if they will pick some uniques to act as terrain modifiers? Like, I could see a "salt" monopoly giving you a food (?) bonus to all bonus resources with a pasture (for salted meats), or a Dyes monopoly giving double yields to all silk+cotton tiles in a city. Doing that might be a fun way to tie certain related resources together.

I do hope, however, that they give the "tea" monopoly bonus as like +8 loyalty to the target city, and then having a special achievement for America to cause a city with a tea industry product to revolt.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The new Mode is staying within the current parameters of the game and, frankly, taking the 'least difficult' approach to Economics: using Great Merchants but not really integrating them into the Corporations after they are founded, using Resources but only the Luxury/Amenity ones and then (so far) apparently only the 'natural' ones and not the manufactured ones coming from some Great Merchants.

Well, better than nothing.

Bu one can hope this is Firaxis Dipping Their Collective Toes into the economic game and willing to go much, much farther in Civ VII.

For instance, (and here I'm dragging out the dead horse and stick again) this version of the Corp/Monopolies mechanic begs for Resources to be divorced from rigid and game-long categories, and the use of a Resource tied to the technology level and able to change throughout the game.

So, Rice and Wheat are Food Resources early in the game, then requirements for Distilled Liquor Amenity/Luxury Resources, and maybe later requirements for Processed Foods Corporate Resource.

Iron is an early Strategic Resource, later required to make Railroad Improvements, Ironclads, Battleships, Tanks, Artillery and other military Units, but also allows cheaper Buildings (skyscrapers, modern Urban structures, Factories)

Niter is also a component for modern Fertilizer, so has potential Strategic and Food/Bonus properties, and can be manufactured in Nitraries or, after discovering the Haber Process (Industrial Chemistry Tech?) in specialized Factories or Structures.

And all of them should be tradable to whoever needs them for whatever purpose: the greatest sheer tonnage of trade in the world today is in Raw Materials: ores, oil, food stocks, while the greatest value/ton is in Manufactured Resources of all kinds.

And Manufactured Resources like cheap clothing, personal automobiles, personal electronics, etc, should start replacing many of the 'natural' Luxury/Amenity goods after the beginning of the Industrial Era and later in the game - and are an obvious place for Corporations to make their mark, as Sole Manufacturers or Monopoly Manufacturers of those 'artificial' Resources

 

[anonxanemone]

Niter is also a component for modern Fertilizer, so has potential Strategic and Food/Bonus properties, and can be manufactured in Nitraries or, after discovering the Haber Process (Industrial Chemistry Tech?) in specialized Factories or Structures.

Call it Chemical Engineering perhaps?

 

[Zaarin]

Bu one can hope this is Firaxis Dipping Their Collective Toes into the economic game and willing to go much, much farther in Civ VII.

While few of the modes have really been stellar in themselves, one hopes that this is Firaxis' way of testing ideas for the future.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Bu one can hope this is Firaxis Dipping Their Collective Toes into the economic game and willing to go much, much farther in Civ VII.

I see this as a way to test a possible economic win condition for Civ 7.

I do hope, however, that they give the "tea" monopoly bonus as like +8 loyalty to the target city, and then having a special achievement for America to cause a city with a tea industry product to revolt.

As an American it's pretty accurate to say that I'd revolt.

 

[Zaarin]

As an American it's pretty accurate to say that I'd revolt.

It's always a good time for a tea party in Boston.

 

[Ticio]

Totally off topic, but talking about cocoa and chocolate... I gave recently to my brother (he is a cook) an old (very old) book of recipes.
Estrange Christmas present, I know...

The "Arte de Repostería" (Art of Pastry) from 1747. I read some recipes and were interesting, but I took a photo of the original Castilian receipt of hot chocolate to drink.
The book is without alteration so I had to do a conversion using old castillian measurements and the results are these:

Original / Conversion

1 libra Chocolate = 0,460 kg of chocolate

½ libra azúcar = 0,23kg of sugar

3 Cuartillos Agua = 1,512Kg Water

The author explains: ""1 pound of chocolate melted in 3 quarts of boiling water and half a pound of sugar"

So with the conversion would be:
"""0,460 kg of chocolate melted on 1,512Kg of water and you have to add 0,23 Kg of sugar."""

I asked my brother if everything seemed right, and it seems to be a perfectly good recipe (therefore it seems I used the good old measurements).
The author gives tips for making a better chocolate (with added spices and so on), but the neutral recipe is this one. Anyways, if you want the rest of ingredients, I can check for it.


P.S: The chocolate to melt as to be as dark as possible (ideal would be 100% cocoa, as during the period). The result is a very strong cocoa flavor as it uses water instead of milk.
If you don't like your chocolate so strong, I think you can use milk, but if you ever had churros with chocolate, the chocolate used nowdays is also made with water, so if you enjoy it, you should enjoy this one too!


EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to give name of the cook.
Juan de la Mata; "Arte de la repostería" (1747). Quite an interesting book, I think it is easy to acquire, my version was imported from USA but all was in Old Castilian for some reason (the book cover states that as an historic recreation, they let the original language without alteration.... but I'm sure they make translation to modern english and spanish...or so I hope...)