[NFP] Monopolies and Corporations Game Mode Discussion Thread

[UWHabs]

My first game with monopolies, it was a neat little bonus, kind of fun chasing the monopoly mini-game, and the tourism bonus you got from it helped.

Second game, despite not playing with Heroes and able to plant a monopoly with Maui, was even more broken for tourism. Yeah, I was easily going to win my game, having conquered like 4 AI and easily able to steamroll through the rest. But when you get +1800% tourism modifiers, I ended up winning a tourism game on the same turn as I got my first great work of writing and on the turn that I unlocked Conservation. So, yeah, being able to win by tourism with only one early game relic, no works of writing, no national parks, no rock bands, no seaside resorts, no ski resorts, not even any UI getting tourism, yeah, that just feels a tad wrong. I mean, I didn't even have time to build a stock exchange or a seaport to even build a product from any of my resource monopolies. I basically just conquered my whole continent for 4 100% monopolies (or maybe it was only 3 100%ers and another 7/10 or so one, but still), and then late on, conquered enough of the next continent to secure 2 more 2/2 luxury resources, and I was absolutely rocking it.

I am fine with monopolies granting tourism, but this exponential modifier to it is too much, and the bonuses become too passive. I think you should at the very least have to found a corporation with a resource in order to gain the monopoly bonus from it, so it at least takes an investment. And then even with that, maybe you shouldn't even get a tourism bonus from other civs unless if they have a product of it or something. You need some sort of investment to reap the benefits, since ending a culture victory at turn 166 with Kublai just feels... shallow. Like I didn't deserve the win.

 

[Blutark]

Has there been an developer response to the excess tourism generation? I like going for a culture victory, the last thing I want to do is turn it off.

Last game I beat my old (pre corps) CV record by 125 turns. More than a little off.

Edit: I'll add - I was goin for domination too, just forgot to turn it off.

 

[InsidiousMage]

Has there been an developer response to the excess tourism generation?

There hasn't been a new video update released for the next patch coming out this month so..... no.

 

[Abaxial]

Is there a way of telling how close you are to getting a monopoly? If you knew, for instance, that you just needed two more copies, it would enable you to set your priorities.

 

[MrRadar]

Is there a way of telling how close you are to getting a monopoly? If you knew, for instance, that you just needed two more copies, it would enable you to set your priorities.

In the Global Resources tab, you can see the percentage of the luxury nodes you and AI control. You need at least 60 % for a monopoly.

 

[UWHabs]

In the Global Resources tab, you can see the percentage of the luxury nodes you and AI control. You need at least 60 % for a monopoly.

You see the full list when you hit mercantilism. So like in my current game, was debating whether to capture another Japanese city, but then noticed it had 2 luxuries that I already had 1/2 copies from, so capturing the city would give 2 more full monopolies.

 

[Abaxial]

Would you believe I never knew about that little button? I had to do some googling to find out where it was.

What surprises me is that the game gives you no information when you acquire or lose a monopoly. I found that I already had two which I didn't know about. I think that is something one ought to know without having to call up a report screen. There's also no obvious indication that the monopoly is increasing your tourism.

 

[InsidiousMage]

What surprises me is that the game gives you no information when you acquire or lose a monopoly

You get era score for your first monopoly, either +3(world's first) or +1(your first).

 

[Abaxial]

You get era score for your first monopoly, either +3(world's first) or +1(your first).

If I did, I didn't notice it. I got one for my first corporation - maybe it was a monopoly at the same time..

 

[UWHabs]

My trick is to see what my cash changes. So if I go from +200 gpt to +210-ish gpt from putting a plantation down, then I know I hit the first monopoly milestone. If it jumpts to like 225+, then I know I hit the 100% monopoly on it.

 

[m_mus]

There hasn't been a new video update released for the next patch coming out this month so..... no.

It really is quite the questionable display, if - Andrew Johnson's occasional interesting comment on history and cultural anthropology aside - almost the complete communication with FXS is dependent on these videos wherein at best the devs indirectly comment to the issues raised here and elsewhere. We have to wait one month for the next video and before we know if e.g. the tourism bug will be addressed and if there is no mention we even can't rule it out fur sure, since we don't get patchnotes beforehand. And if the sad prospect comes true that its fix has not been included, we'll have to speculate for the next month.
It would be really welcome and helpful if for once the devs could reply with a oneliner that says: "We are on it, count for a fix to be included in the next patch."
But instead, the communication with FXS is mostly onesided and really tiresome.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've played around with this mode a lot in the last week. I was really looking forward to it and I think I had inflated expectations. I am over the disappointment now and wanted to share thoughts on it, as it feels like a game mode with a lot of unrealised potential. This thread has amply covered the broken nature of the modifiers. Everyone expects it to be patched into something sane like 25% or 50% tourism, and so I thought it was worth making a case for not nerfing the upwards of 1000% modifiers, but retaining it in a different fashion. The main case for not nerfing them altogether (even though it genuinely looks like a formulae error) is that it would present a slightly different win condition, AKA a shadow economic victory, and I think game modes adding new ways to win is a net positive.

At the moment you can still play cultural victory with this mode enabled, you can just elect not to improve all the copies of a luxury that would trigger monopoly status. It's not great to have to play around the game like this but it is possible. I think that games where you have a monopoly on resources pre mercantilism are edge cases rather than the norm. If the crazy modifiers that are currently present were provided with additional conditionals I think it would be worth keeping them, for example you must have a corporation, and you must have a trading post established in another Civ. Moving some of the numbers that are currently stored in percentage modifiers into the actual products themselves (by giving them a baseline tourism value of 100 or more) would be another way to retain the current victory mode. I think the mode would be enhanced if having a monopoly established also reduced incoming monopoly tourism effects (like the Space Tourism policy card).

As it stands the potential to win the game in a different way is the most impactful aspect of the game mode. In my games I have found that by the time I have capacity to both produce multiple copies of a product (and you can only produce 5 products per resource) and then - more importantly - house those products in other cities (i.e. have T3 commerce buildings in a city) the game is already decided, so products just become win more. I think that Products should unlock with and be housed within the Bank and Shipyard. What would be better still in my estimation would be internal trade to cities with an established industry sharing the industry benefit between cities (this would have the effect of making a number of Civs more synergistic with the new game mode). I really like how this game mode makes you look at your starting terrain differently, but the inability to be able to distribute the bonuses from an industry until you get to Corporations means it doesn't have any impact on the route to any of the win conditions.

Of all the game modes I feel like this one should have built itself atop the Gathering Storm game rather than the base game - it would have been nice to get some diplomatic council resolutions to accompany this mode. I think that the mode should have duplicated the religious tourism code somehow, creating another category of tourism that is effected by its own modifiers. This might have enabled interesting choices, for example attaining Environmentalism applies a negative 25% tourism modifier to sources of economic tourism. I played an English Eleanor game with this mode enabled and secret societies (I took Owls) and it drove home to me that this mode would have been enriched by hooking into loyalty mechanics in some fashion.

Last stray thoughts are that this mode also enhances city state diplomacy as they can unlock access to an industry or monopoly, and I really like this. I think they made the right decision grouping luxuries into bonus bestowing categories but I think they are missing two currency systems, influence points for envoys and great person points. There are already city states that provide bonuses to great people points so I'm certain that could be balanced (I'm imagining a luxury resource that imitates Bologna's suzerain bonus or the Divine Spark pantheon). The influence points for envoys could alternatively be diplomatic favour for people playing with Gathering Storm. It's cool that the AI seeks out your products in trade deals but the game mode feels hollow when the AI never produces their own products.

 

[InsidiousMage]

But instead, the communication with FXS is mostly onesided and really tiresome.

Maybe my expectations are way too high but when one of the head developers for Magic the Gathering has a blog where he answers question on daily basis the lack of solid communication from Firaxis seems really noticeable. Paradox has ton of channels on YouTube and weekly streams for CK3 on Twitch among a bunch of stuff. The monthly updates and developer streams are nice but seem really thin sometimes compared to the way other companies communicate with their playerbases.

 

[Stilgar08]

Maybe I'm alone but I'd rather have them work on the product than commenting heavily on many questionable remarks occurring here or elsewhere.
And we know that they are lurking in the curtains so what's your problem? Lack of attention? That's phantom pain I'd say...

 

[InsidiousMage]

Maybe I'm alone but I'd rather have them work on the product than commenting heavily on many questionable remarks occurring here or elsewhere.

Every company has a PR team nowadays. The devs do not need to interact with the fans but it's always welcomed if they want to. Firaxis, as a company, does a poor job of communicating with the fan base. They don't even need to post in the forum but like, put up a blog on the Civ6 website, post more YouTube videos or use the Civ6 Twitter account for something other that announcing the game is on sale or that the new release is out.

 

[Stilgar08]

Everyone company has a PR team nowadays. The devs do not need to interact with the fans but it's always welcomed if they want to...

Don't wanna further derail from the topic of the thread so just on a short note: It was your own example with the Head Devs of Magic the Gathering...
Back on topic: The lack of information concerning monopolies milestones is one of my major gripes so far when it comes to this mode. I'd rather receive another note but nothing or deducting from Gpt changes.
How about a rebuild of several report screens and a revamp there, especially for any economic info? Currently those are horrible IMO.
That would be a QoL improvement. Since I switched to mainly play on console I miss some mods dearly!!

 

[InsidiousMage]

Don't wanna further derail from the topic of the thread so just on a short note: It was your own example with the Head Devs of Magic the Gathering...

The point being the disparity between what Firaxis does and what other companies do.

How about a rebuild of several report screens and a revamp there, especially for any economic info? Currently those are horrible IMO.

This is another main reason why I don't plan on using the mode anymore. I kept having to look up what each industry did, even after establishing it because the info isn't in the tool tip, and there was not easy find out which of my cities had what industry or corporation. Being able to look a screen to be reminded of what cities have which industry with what bonus it gives would be super useful to plan out what you are going to do.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

To be fair MtG has all the resources of Hasbro behind them . . .

 

[Kwami]

To be fair MtG has all the resources of Hasbro behind them . . .

And Firaxis has 2K and their parent, Take-Two Interactive. That company is just about the same as Hasbro.

 

[InsidiousMage]

To be fair MtG has all the resources of Hasbro behind them . . .

If Firaxis can't handle putting up even a minimum effect blog then they have some issues that need to be worked out. MtG is like the gold standard but Firaxis barely seems to be trying for even just a participation trophy.