More Chinese Silliness

[Narz]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20227400/site/newsweek/

China Regulates Buddhist Reincarnation

By Matthew Philips
Newsweek

Aug. 20-27, 2007 issue - In one of history's more absurd acts of totalitarianism, China has banned Buddhist monks in Tibet from reincarnating without government permission. According to a statement issued by the State Administration for Religious Affairs, the law, which goes into effect next month and strictly stipulates the procedures by which one is to reincarnate, is "an important move to institutionalize management of reincarnation." But beyond the irony lies China's true motive: to cut off the influence of the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual and political leader, and to quell the region's Buddhist religious establishment more than 50 years after China invaded the small Himalayan country. By barring any Buddhist monk living outside China from seeking reincarnation, the law effectively gives Chinese authorities the power to choose the next Dalai Lama, whose soul, by tradition, is reborn as a new human to continue the work of relieving suffering.
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At 72, the Dalai Lama, who has lived in India since 1959, is beginning to plan his succession, saying that he refuses to be reborn in Tibet so long as it's under Chinese control. Assuming he's able to master the feat of controlling his rebirth, as Dalai Lamas supposedly have for the last 600 years, the situation is shaping up in which there could be two Dalai Lamas: one picked by the Chinese government, the other by Buddhist monks. "It will be a very hot issue," says Paul Harrison, a Buddhism scholar at Stanford. "The Dalai Lama has been the prime symbol of unity and national identity in Tibet, and so it's quite likely the battle for his incarnation will be a lot more important than the others."

So where in the world will the next Dalai Lama be born? Harrison and other Buddhism scholars agree that it will likely be from within the 130,000 Tibetan exiles spread throughout India, Europe and North America. With an estimated 8,000 Tibetans living in the United States, could the next Dalai Lama be American-born? "You'll have to ask him," says Harrison. If so, he'll likely be welcomed into a culture that has increasingly embraced reincarnation over the years. According to a 2005 Gallup poll, 20 percent of all U.S. adults believe in reincarnation. Recent surveys by the Barna Group, a Christian research nonprofit, have found that a quarter of U.S. Christians, including 10 percent of all born-again Christians, embrace it as their favored end-of-life view. A non-Tibetan Dalai Lama, experts say, is probably out of the question.

What next, having to pay taxes for your ancestors?

 

[frob2900]

What next, having to pay taxes for your ancestors?

That's actually quite similar to what serfdom was.

 

[skadistic]

Wait since when was MSNBC in cahoots with the Onion because there is no way thats a real story. I mean the Chinese gov. would never do something so, so ,so daft would it?

 

[Japanrocks12]

why, china, why?

 

[MadScotsMan]

Sounds like they have nothing better to do. Sounds like telling the anti-christ when he can rise....

 

[Tee Kay]

This sounds too daft to be true, but then China would try anything to integrate Tibet. And when killing and immigration doesn't work, well...

 

[GenMarshall]

They regulate something they cannot control?!

How laughable.

 

[Fifty]

It's going to be a kid from Arlen, TX, just like in that King of the Hill episode!

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

I'm going to need confirmation to believe this... only a tiny number of those living in China are actually buddhist.

 

[Tee Kay]

I'm going to need confirmation to believe this... only a tiny number of those living in China are actually buddhist.

Last time I checked, it's about 40% of the population - about 600 million people.

 

[plarq]

Last time I checked, it's about 40% of the population - about 600 million people.

Many are not registered.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Ah China!!!!

When will you learn!!!

 

[Winner]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20227400/site/newsweek/

What next, having to pay taxes for your ancestors?

Nothing new. State likes to have a control over the religion. Authoritative states especially.

Chinese government is afraid of organized churches, which could undermine its authority. That's why they're so tough on Catholics, Tibetan Buddhists, Fa lung kung etc. Especially now when China is modernizing the population needs religion - it's a known fact that urbanization and modernization leaves people vulnerable, disconnected from traditional life, so they seek refuge in religion. Traditional religions are not very good in that, so the "stronger" ones, such as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism etc. come in. I am sure Vatican is well aware of that and sees a huge opportunity for expansion, as its traditional strongholds are losing faith

 

[Narz]

Fa lung kung

Falun gong? I remember seeing those people all the time when I worked for an Oriental Messenger Service in NY. I would bring people's passports and stuff to the Chinese Consulate on 42nd St. b/w 11th & 12th and they'd always be there protesting the Chinese government.

Found an article about it (pics no longer work though it seems) : http://www.faluninfo.net/displayAnArticle.asp?ID=9107

What this lady, Qi Zhang says is true : “The consulate was trying to demonize us. They were giving visitors [to the building] hate literature and trying to turn people against us.” Qi Zhang, one of the group, shared through an interpreter.

Inside they had literature about how crazy the Falun Gong were, how they were stupid and deluded people who did extreme things, how their leader played them all for their money (there was a photo showing some fancy car that was supposed his.

They always seemed nice enough though those Falun Gongers though. Not at all weird or brimming with issues like many of the Christians who give you those fun "Hi! You're going to Hell" pamphlets in big cities. They didn't try to convert anyone, just bring attention to Chinese abuses (the Chinese government's abuses that is, don't want anyone to get the idea I'm dissing the Chinese people themselves, their government doesn't represent them as a whole anymore than Bush represents most Americans).

it's a known fact that urbanization and modernization leaves people vulnerable, disconnected from traditional life, so they seek refuge in religion.

Or drugs, TV, Internet, massage parlors, materialism, workaholism, etc. Keen insight btw, but none of these will make up for a culture that fulfills so little of what humans need (dignity, sense of community, sense of purpose, sense your job matters, etc.). Religion is superior to many options in that it least provides community connections. Falun Gong seems better than most because, these people get together and do exercises (which may not have any mystical spiritual value but probably are excellent for health like yoga or Tai Chi).

 

[Winner]

Falun gong?

Yes, I wasn't sure what's the English transcription.

I remember seeing those people all the time when I worked for an Oriental Messenger Service in NY. I would bring people's passports and stuff to the Chinese Consulate on 42nd St. b/w 11th & 12th and they'd always be there protesting the Chinese government.

Found an article about it (pics no longer work though it seems) : http://www.faluninfo.net/displayAnArticle.asp?ID=9107

What this lady, Qi Zhang says is true : “The consulate was trying to demonize us. They were giving visitors [to the building] hate literature and trying to turn people against us.” Qi Zhang, one of the group, shared through an interpreter.

Inside they had literature about how crazy the Falun Gong were, how they were stupid and deluded people who did extreme things, how their leader played them all for their money (there was a photo showing some fancy car that was supposed his.

They always seemed nice enough though those Falun Gongers though. Not at all weird or brimming with issues like many of the Christians who give you those fun "Hi! You're going to Hell" pamphlets in big cities. They didn't try to convert anyone, just bring attention to Chinese abuses (the Chinese government's abuses that is, don't want anyone to get the idea I'm dissing the Chinese people themselves, their government doesn't represent them as a whole anymore than Bush represents most Americans).

Yes, that's what Chinese gov. says. I've met the Chinese ambassador to Czech Rep. last semester and he was saying the same thing - that it is a dangerous cult etc.

 

[Tee Kay]

Yes, that's what Chinese gov. says. I've met the Chinese ambassador to Czech Rep. last semester and he was saying the same thing - that it is a dangerous cult etc.

Of course Falun Gong is a dangerous cult...to the Chinese government. It's one of the few organisations in China that can seriously challenge authoritarian rule, plus they have connections in the West. To the Chinese government they're as dangerous as Taiwanese separatists.

 

[Verbose]

It's a rubber law. They are very common and very useful to authoritarian regimes.

It means the Chinese government/Communist Party now have automatic dirt on anyone in the kind of Tibetan politics relying on traditional religion. If they don't like some "tulku" or other, he's obviously in contravention of the law. The proof is that the Chinese authorities don't like him. This allows them to throw the book at him and his supporters.

Check for rubber legislation like this, if in doubt as to the true leanings of a government.

Egypt occasionally prosecutes people for things they can't avoid doing, as it's the lawmakers who decide if some extremely generally worded law applies to their behavior or not; the only consistency is that people the authorities decide they don't like are targeted.

Putin's Russia also has a toolbox of laws like this; it prosecutes organisations involved in news reporting for getting funding for abroad, but not organisations involved in humanitarian charities receiving the same.

Laws should apply equally and fully, and possible to forsee the consequences of, or else they are tools for arbitrarily going after those who cause the people in power discomfort. Unregulated Tibetian reincarnation is only illegal if the Chinese government doesn't like it, but it's not possible to exactly forsee who will be slapped by it and when. And it's not supposed to be, it's supposed to give the authorities and excuse, should they like one at some point.

I have no doubt this legislation will be applied.

 

[silver 2039]

This is of course purely targeted against the Dali Lama, when he dies there will be 2 Lamas one in China, and one somewhere else, probably India. At any rate their goal is to weaken the culture and religion of Tibet to integrate it.

 

[luiz]

It's a rubber law. They are very common and very useful to authoritarian regimes.

It means the Chinese government/Communist Party now have automatic dirt on anyone in the kind of Tibetan politics relying on traditional religion. If they don't like some "tulku" or other, he's obviously in contravention of the law. The proof is that the Chinese authorities don't like him. This allows them to throw the book at him and his supporters.

Check for rubber legislation like this, if in doubt as to the true leanings of a government.

Egypt occasionally prosecutes people for things they can't avoid doing, as it's the lawmakers who decide if some extremely generally worded law applies to their behavior or not; the only consistency is that people the authorities decide they don't like are targeted.

Putin's Russia also has a toolbox of laws like this; it prosecutes organisations involved in news reporting for getting funding for abroad, but not organisations involved in humanitarian charities receiving the same.

Laws should apply equally and fully, and possible to forsee the consequences of, or else they are tools for arbitrarily going after those who cause the people in power discomfort. Unregulated Tibetian reincarnation is only illegal if the Chinese government doesn't like it, but it's not possible to exactly forsee who will be slapped by it and when. And it's not supposed to be, it's supposed to give the authorities and excuse, should they like one at some point.

I have no doubt this legislation will be applied.

Precisely.

It is the same with deportation laws in Brazil (we have hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants but only the cubans got deported), or anti-theft laws in Cuba (everybody steals in Cuba, because it's almost impossible to live solely on the wages, but the government only arrests political opponents for petty theft).

With this law China will have a legal justification to arrest pretty much any budhist monk that criticises them or who they feel might cause trouble in the future. This only goes to show how far China still is from anything even remotely similar to a democracy and how careful we should be on dealing with them.