More Q&A with Kate

[ImperialChaos]

If you want to use them, the GEM mod already incorporates a Opportunities system built nearly exactly like the Random Events from Civ4 are (major change: no only bad events, nothing that only costs you ressources).

See the communitas subforum for more

Sweet! Is it the GK enhanced?

On topic: I don't think we'll get the final civ reveals until the new magazines are released. That is next week, right?

 

[Hulking Lummox]

@LoafWarden and ImperialChaos

While I don't entirely hate random events, they at least shouldn't be able to punish the unwary noob as they do currently. For example: When I get to 180+ faith I micromanage how much faith per turn I am getting so as to avoid wasting time on say, working a Natural Wonder such as Sinai. Because after all, any amount beyond 200 is wasted and to my knowledge does not boost the random chance for a Great Prophet. Would be nice if the faith rolled over to avoid the sometimes large loss caused by random chance.

 

[cybrxkhan]

That's one of the things I liked about it. This is a strategy game, yes, but it's also a game about history. To me, having random things come up that I didn't expect to have to deal with adds to the immersion and enhances the illusion that I'm ruling an empire rather than just playing an elaborate game of chess. There shouldn't be any random events big enough to dismantle your empire and ruin the whole game--it is still a strategy game, after all, and not a complete history simulator. But I liked having minor random events.

Hear hear.


I always did a sort of "roleplay" thing when playing single-player civ. That is, I sort of imagined that I was really doing an alt history instead of just playing a glorified chess. Random events really, really helped with that sort of immersion.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

Will the nexus tool be fixed, any chances for a working, easy asset exporter?

The one thing I want to know

 

[kingchris20]

Sweet! Is it the GK enhanced?

On topic: I don't think we'll get the final civ reveals until the new magazines are released. That is next week, right?

Magazine stuff, next Friday-ish........hopefully we'll see the new leaders!

 

[kaspergm]

@LoafWarden and ImperialChaos

While I don't entirely hate random events, they at least shouldn't be able to punish the unwary noob as they do currently. For example: When I get to 180+ faith I micromanage how much faith per turn I am getting so as to avoid wasting time on say, working a Natural Wonder such as Sinai. Because after all, any amount beyond 200 is wasted and to my knowledge does not boost the random chance for a Great Prophet. Would be nice if the faith rolled over to avoid the sometimes large loss caused by random chance.

Well ... now the talk is on random events, I think a crucial distinction to make on this subject is between random rolls applying to strategic elements of the game - such as your great prophet spawning through a random roll when your faith surpasses 200 - and actual random events, that happen without you planning for them - such as the ones we had in civ4.

The first of these two - random effects applying to strategic elements - is bad, because the whole idea of a strategic element is that you plan for it. And what is worse, many of these strategic elements will have the chance of giving you a disadvantage if luck favors your opponent - for instance, you might be the first one with +200 , but chance might favor one of your opponents, giving them the advantage of picking beliefs first. That is not only unfair, but also very unhealthy for a game where the whole purpose is to plan your moves so that you get the advantage by out-skilling your opponents.

The second of these is fine, however. These are elements that pop up and will only have a minor impact on the game, but which will add some flavor. These were events like the ones in civ4 where you might be able to get a little extra yield from a resource or building in a town, or where you were put in the position to chose between using a minor amount of resources to get a small bonus - or save the resources and don't get the bonus. Sure, there were some events in civ4 that didn't work all too well, but the overall idea was nice imo. Plus, these events would rarely have major impact on the course of the game, they did not affect things you planned for and thus did not thwart the strategic element of the game, and given that they happened in approximately the same numbers to all players, they were balanced.

 

[Hulking Lummox]

Well ... now the talk is on random events, I think a crucial distinction to make on this subject is between random rolls applying to strategic elements of the game - such as your great prophet spawning through a random roll when your faith surpasses 200 - and actual random events, that happen without you planning for them - such as the ones we had in civ4.

Okay I see what you mean. So you're saying there is a difference between random events that can be planned for by assumption (dice rolls) versus random events for flavor. Played only a few hours of civ 4, lots of civ rev, and around 1500 for civ 5 so I didn't have a frame of reference. This reminds me more of "week of the ____" in heroes of might and magic or the mention of certain plagues or crusades in medieval TW. I, like most humans, am an enjoyer of flavors so I am on board.

 

[mitsho]

Sweet! Is it the GK enhanced?

Yep, GEM = Gods&Kings Enhanced Mod, as opposed to VEM (Vanilla..) and I assume/hope/wish/pray/sacrifice goats for BEM = Brave New World Enhanced Mod.

Forum and Site. Though the mod at its version isn't polished nor entirely finished, but hey, that happens...

I do agre on the discussion regarding random elements, though I might add that there's another dimension, the phenomena. Is it fun when a Volcano wipes out your city? Sure, you will settle there knowing the risks, but you can't resist those + 1 tiles anyways. But you will ragequit when it destroys your advancenment on the wonder one turn before you finish it! Wouldn't you?

So make the negative stuff more minor. But then what's the point?

I'd say lose the negative thing or at least make it avoidable by investing or something else. Now you can bite yourself that you bought that additional worker instead of keeping the for harder times...

 

[slowmotion7]

Yep, GEM = Gods&Kings Enhanced Mod, as opposed to VEM (Vanilla..) and I assume/hope/wish/pray/sacrifice goats for BEM = Brave New World Enhanced Mod.

Forum and Site. Though the mod at its version isn't polished nor entirely finished, but hey, that happens...

I do agre on the discussion regarding random elements, though I might add that there's another dimension, the phenomena. Is it fun when a Volcano wipes out your city? Sure, you will settle there knowing the risks, but you can't resist those + 1 tiles anyways. But you will ragequit when it destroys your advancenment on the wonder one turn before you finish it! Wouldn't you?

So make the negative stuff more minor. But then what's the point?

I'd say lose the negative thing or at least make it avoidable by investing or something else. Now you can bite yourself that you bought that additional worker instead of keeping the for harder times...

I've played games that give choice to random events. Some scenario like this:

Volcano, pre-renaissance period:
Your mystics have come to you and say the volcano will explode unless a sacrifice is made to honor your god/s.

Choice:
Pay x gold
Sacrifice Worker (if available)
Laugh at them and their mystic ramblings

Same scenario, post renaissance, pre atomic
Your scientist have come to tell you of an eminent volcano eruption. They believe they can forestall this eruption if they are given enough time to research it.

Choice:
Pay x gold
Sacrifice % of science for x turns
Laugh at them and their nerdy claims

Same scenario, post atomic
Your engineers have come to tell you of an eminent volcano eruption. They believe they can build necessary improvements to protect the city.

Choice:
Pay x gold
Sacrifice % of production in city for x turns
Laugh at them and their blue collar ways

 

[kaspergm]

So make the negative stuff more minor. But then what's the point?

I'd say lose the negative thing or at least make it avoidable by investing or something else. Now you can bite yourself that you bought that additional worker instead of keeping the for harder times...

Yeah, things should always be fun. Negative stuff that is only annoying should definitely be avoided. The volcano thing with you wonder that you mention would be about as annoying as using a lot of time and resources to beeline a certain tech (Flight or Artillery for instance) to get the upper hand in combat, only to have AI opponent have a spy steal it next turn*. It might "level the playing field", but it certainly doesn't make the game more fun. I didn't mind the less severe effects in Civ4, however, where you got the choice to use a bit of gold to prevent the disaster or let it roll. Obviously that affected strategy a bit, because it ment you took a risk by spending all your gold down to zero, but I think actually that effect was overall positive, because you could still plan you way out of it by keeping that gold buffer.

* Which, on top of the coup thing, is why I always play with Espionage turned off. One of the first things I modded in civ 5 btw. was to make the Great Prophet spawning not random, but happen exactly when you hit the faith threshold.

 

[bcaiko]

Yeah, things should always be fun. Negative stuff that is only annoying should definitely be avoided. ...It might "level the playing field", but it certainly doesn't make the game more fun.

Two words: BLUE SHELL. No one likes that thing. It's horrible design in the guise of "leveling the playing field."

 

[Loaf Warden]

Two words: BLUE SHELL. No one likes that thing. It's horrible design in the guise of "leveling the playing field."

You trying to give me a PTSD flashback? You can have minor random events that just add flavor without having hideous game breakers like that.

 

[slowmotion7]

Two words: BLUE SHELL. No one likes that thing. It's horrible design in the guise of "leveling the playing field."

My eye began twitching when I read BLUE SHELL...

 

[Louis XXIV]

Two words: BLUE SHELL. No one likes that thing. It's horrible design in the guise of "leveling the playing field."

I'm fine with the blue shell. It was obvious, yes, but it's fine to balance competitively somewhat. That's what the weapons are there for. Otherwise, it would just be a racing game.

However, while everyone complains about the blue shell, they miss that drivers in the lead start slowing down and drivers in the rear drive faster. That is far worse because it makes skill virtually irrelevant.

 

[PhilBowles]

http://www.2kgames.com/blog/the-civilization-v-brave-new-world-team-answers-your-questions-part-3


YES! city flipping details.

At what level of discontent do cities start flipping to a rival civ?

When your happiness gets down to -20, then your Cities will start abandoning your empire.

Those contentedness levels appear to reflect empire-wide discontent. How is the city to be flipped chosen?

If your people are this unhappy, they will have a Preferred Ideology they’d like to switch to. We look at all your cities to see how close they are to the capital cities of the civs following that Ideology (and how much pressure you are receiving from each of those civ’s cultures). Based on those factors we can pick the city that will flip (and which civ it will defect to).

Unless there are new mechanisms for severely reducing enemy unhappiness, this is a shame since, like the existing rebel feature, no one will ever get to see it in their games. Plus AI cities won't flip to you because of AI happiness bonuses.

This is one case where a city-specific public order mechanic, as in previous Civ games, would be more helpful than global happiness.

You trying to give me a PTSD flashback? You can have minor random events that just add flavor without having hideous game breakers like that.

Given that these already exist in the form of ancient ruins, I'm not sure why there'd be resistance to adding more.

Unfortunately, random events in games usually do become unbalancing. Take a recent example, Distant Worlds. Derelict spacecraft are randomly spawned at different points on the map, and their abilities randomly set. Whoever gets them (almost always the player, since the AI seems not to prioritise them) rapidly snowballs - advanced ships let you get other advanced ships more quickly by destroying the guardian monsters (and often having engines with greater range), and before long the game's a walkover.

Of course, Distant Worlds in general is a sandbox and isn't particularly well-designed or developed as a victory-focused game, so balance may just not have been a high priority.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Unless there are new mechanisms for severely reducing enemy unhappiness, this is a shame since, like the existing rebel feature, no one will ever get to see it in their games. Plus AI cities won't flip to you because of AI happiness bonuses.

This is one case where a city-specific public order mechanic, as in previous Civ games, would be more helpful than global happiness.

Well, Ideological Pressure causes enemy unhappiness.. and Hopefully the AI bonuses have been shifted from happiness towards growth, etc.

 

[Aristos]

Take a recent example, Distant Worlds. Derelict spacecraft are randomly spawned at different points on the map, and their abilities randomly set. Whoever gets them (almost always the player, since the AI seems not to prioritise them) rapidly snowballs - advanced ships let you get other advanced ships more quickly by destroying the guardian monsters (and often having engines with greater range), and before long the game's a walkover.

Of course, Distant Worlds in general is a sandbox and isn't particularly well-designed or developed as a victory-focused game, so balance may just not have been a high priority.

Not to derail the thread, but you may be a little outdated regarding DW. The latest expansion, Shadows, is a masterpiece, and issues like the one you mention have been completely rebalanced. And that is indeed the key with random events: they have to be balanced enough to provide certain degree of variability to a game without favouring a player.

 

[baptismbyfire]

What's the blue shell?

 

[ImperialChaos]

I think it's the shell in Mario. I could be wrong.

http://www.mariowiki.com/Blue_Shell

 

[baptismbyfire]

Oh, thanks. I thought we were still talking about something in the Civ games and was wondering what I was missing.