Most Popular Excluded Civ?

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Ribannah
On the other hand, if you were from China, you would consider Europe a single civ. These Europeans all have the same barbarian manners anyway.
Europe would have to compete with the great civs of Tibet, Mantsuria, Nepal, Chosan, Viet, Khmer, Laos etc., who all have a clearly distinct and much better known history.

Now, if you were Sioux, ....
You get my drift.

It's all a matter of perspective, which varies according to geography and historical epoch.

 

[Homie]

I get your drift but don't agree with your drift. You are saying that it depends on where you are from, right? That I'm saying European civs are big and powerful because I am from Europe. Well, it's not really so. It is simple history that european and Asian civs have been more advanced (scientifically) and has had empires which streched beyond their own continents. The civs you mentioned are Asian but they are merely small Asian countries (even though some of them aren't even that anymore) not big empires. The civs that get included are the ones that have had a major impact on "the world" not just their back yard. And there are many of them in Europe.

 

[nalves]

Originally posted by pompeynunn

By the way, I voted for the Spanish - can't believe they were omitted - they were the first to really explore the whole planet, after all.

They were NOT the firsts to explore the whole planet, they were one of the firsts ....
The Portuguese were the firsts to sail around Africa they were the firsts reach the east.
And spanish were the firsts in wath ? reach America ... who knows ...
In 1494 the world was divided intwo parts, one for Portugal and one for spain ..... so they were both great super powers.

They should both be in civ3.

Long live Iberia Peninsula

 

[Ribannah]

The first to explore the entire planet were the spacefarers.
The Chinese (the first of the great explorers), Vikings, Portuguese, Italians, Spanish, Dutch, English - they all saw many corners of the world but not everything.

 

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Homie
I get your drift but don't agree with your drift. You are saying that it depends on where you are from, right? That I'm saying European civs are big and powerful because I am from Europe. Well, it's not really so. It is simple history that european and Asian civs have been more advanced (scientifically) and has had empires which streched beyond their own continents. The civs you mentioned are Asian but they are merely small Asian countries (even though some of them aren't even that anymore) not big empires. The civs that get included are the ones that have had a major impact on "the world" not just their back yard. And there are many of them in Europe.

It is 'simple history' as taught to you. In other parts of the world, there is another 'simple history' getting taught in which the Europeans play a much smaller role.
You put emphasis on the conquest of overseas territories, to others that simply doesn't count for anything, nor are they interested in how one primitive culture did or didn't influence another.

 

[hzm]

Originally posted by nalves

The Portuguese were the firsts to sail around Africa

That was the Phoenicians.

 

[Rory_20_uk]

In terms of the world I tihnk that the peoples that were widespread powers should be added first. Hence Scots / Tibetians are far lower down MY list than say carthage and Spain for example. Korea has pretty much always been the lapdog of either China or Japan, so they are not ones that I think of as a power in their own right.

 

[gonzo_for_civ]

Moderator Action: Let's keep this thread on-topic
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Not aimed at you, rory.

 

[nalves]

Originally posted by hzm


That was the Phoenicians.

Hy hzm.

The Phoeniciansdi sail in the coast of Africa earlier but waht I mean was sail around the continent, and the Phoenicians did not reach south Africa. Portuguese did by the first time. The Portuguese sail from Portugal to India.]

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by nalves


Hy hzm.

The Phoeniciansdi sail in the coast of Africa earlier but waht I mean was sail around the continent, and the Phoenicians did not reach south Africa. Portuguese did by the first time. The Portuguese sail from Portugal to India.]

According to Herodotus, "These men (Phoenicians) made a statement which I do not believe myself, that as they sailed on a westerly course round the southern end of Libya (Africa), they had the sun on their right -- to the northward of them.

Though Herodotus didn't believe them, it is obvious they rounded Africa in the Southern Hemisphere.

 

[Homie]

Was Libya used as a name for the entire continent of Africa at that time? Maybe just the Phoenicians called it that??(I don't know, I'm just asking.) Today it is just a country
in Northern Africa.

 

[nalves]

Originally posted by Zachriel


According to Herodotus, "These men (Phoenicians) made a statement which I do not believe myself, that as they sailed on a westerly course round the southern end of Libya (Africa), they had the sun on their right -- to the northward of them.

Though Herodotus didn't believe them, it is obvious they rounded Africa in the Southern Hemisphere.

Do you realy think so with those ships !!!!

Look in your books fo Bartolomeu Dias, or look in the web, for example http://virtualmuseumofhistory.com/hallofexplorers/BARTOLOMEUDIAS.COM/

regards

 

[nalves]

wath about the ancient civilization of the sumerian, They were the first civilization, at least in the "ancient world".

Wath do you think about that ?

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Homie
Was Libya used as a name for the entire continent of Africa at that time? Maybe just the Phoenicians called it that??(I don't know, I'm just asking.) Today it is just a country
in Northern Africa.

"Libya was the name of the third part of the known world, after Europe and Asia, that is, our modern Africa, or at least its northern part along the Mediterranean."
http://plato-dialogues.org/tools/loc/libya.htm

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by nalves


Do you realy think so with those ships !!!!

Look in your books fo Bartolomeu Dias, or look in the web, for example http://virtualmuseumofhistory.com/hallofexplorers/BARTOLOMEUDIAS.COM/

regards

The Polynesians populated islands separated by thousands of miles of open sea. Certainly the Phoenicians could have rounded Africa never losing sight of land.

Dias was a great explorer, no doubt.

 

[nalves]

The Polynesians .... They were to far away from Africa and sail in the coast of africa is one thing ... but passing the good hope cabe is a totaly diferent one. A good ship and excelent sailors are nedeed ....

The Polynesians were good sailors no doubt but .... didn't had the ships to do that.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by nalves
The Polynesians .... They were to far away from Africa and sail in the coast of africa is one thing ... but passing the good hope cabe is a totaly diferent one. A good ship and excelent sailors are nedeed ....

The Polynesians were good sailors no doubt but .... didn't had the ships to do that.

Just to clarify. I did not indicate that the Polynesians explored Africa. What I did say was that the Polynesians crossed thousands of miles of Pacific Ocean in open boats. Certainly, it is conceivable for Phoenicians to follow the coast of Africa with oar, putting into land in bad weather.