Most Useless Civics Branch?

[Stylesjl]

I find the economic one to be the most useless branch in the whole game. While changing civics there can be important it is still fairly useless for two reasons

1) The changes are minimal (Mechantalism is useless because giving up foreign trade routes is bad unless you are isolated or no open borders agreements), and things like free market and state property have relativly small changes

2) The advances are late. While other civics flow in through the classical and medieval error the economic advances come much later

By the way i often find that the legal branch is the most important branch because of bearucracy, free speech, nationhood, etc

 

[Marshall Thomas]

The additional trade route per city that is recieved with "free markets" can result in substantial exspansion for the national economy. Also the elimination of the distance maintanance penalty which arrives with "state property" can signifigantly cut cost.

 

[Stylesjl]

But i've never noticed a significant diffrence with the free market civic, not one turn on research changed or any extra gold per turn

But i must admit that state property has its uses, but compartively the other branches are better

 

[ZippyRiver]

I think it take an extra turn for the +1 trade route to become effective. I have seen a lot of differences. And the more cities you have (shame on me for saying that) the more it helps. IE

It takes 6 turns to research McDonalds, you change civics and have your anarchy
Anarchy over, still takes 6 turns.
next turn, McDonalds only takes 3 or 4, instead of 5.

If your running at close to 100% science, you wouldn't see a big jump in gold anyway.

Not sure what the optimal number of cities is for switching to free market. Usually by the time i get that civic available, i have enough cities to make the switch worthwhile. Although I usually try to make more than one change at a time.

 

[gettingfat]

Free market is extremely powerful when you have many cities and make trades with other AI civs. As the other poster mentioned, you basically save a turn or two to discover the same tech.

Merchantilism can be quite useful in certain situations. When you are in contact with very few AI civs, or they are your enemies and you are closing your border anyway, merchantalism is a very nice option. In this situation you basically have a virtual Statue of Liberty. It's even more useful when you use Caste system and is actively making war. Every conquered city you can assign the free specialist as an artist, and avoid the nuisance of city flipping back. In combination with representative you get some free researcher beaker as well. IMO, every civic has its own value as long as you know when to use it, just some of them players use more and some less.

 

[apdavis828]

agreed must have State Property for capturing AI cities and for expansive empires... i.e. no oil or aluminum near me so I had to found a city on a land mass far, far away! Otherwise, mercantalism with sistine chapel and statue of liberty later and caste system - oh my... 2 free specialists per city each churning out 4 culture p/t and unlimited scientists, artists, and merchants!

 

[Frostyboy]

state property is THE most important civic if you want to conquer your enemies.

Please explain why

I play agressive, and rather have mercantilism, Whe is State property so much better???

And Stylesj - It is quite a hard statement to say that Economics are useless

 

[PieceOfMind]

I agree with Lord Olleus.

State Property GREATLY reduces distance costs for LARGE empires.

Of course, as always in civ4, its usefulness depends on your situation.

 

[HawkeyeGS]

I think the Religion ones are the most useless because in my games (Prince) I normally do not get a religion because I am always beaten to the techs and I don't really bother because all it does is piss off the AIs. Sometimes the AIs don't send any missionaries to me which leaves 3 civics useless.

 

[HawkeyeGS]

Go state property it rocks. It always makes you realise just how ******** the Cold War was.

 

[Warspite2]

IMO, every civic has its own value as long as you know when to use it, just some of them players use more and some less.

I agree completely. Some you may not have use for in one game, but the next game you will need it. I will give an example, I don't use slavery too often, but in one game it is what kept me from losing. I slave built 4 ships just after an early surprise declaration of war on me and spotting 4 loaded ships headed towards my shores. So although I lost that pop, trust me the game would have been over if all of those ships had landed on my coast. I managed to sink 2 of them, pounded them under and sent them to the bottom. I happen to be going for a cultural vic that game and my military was seriously lacking. Alot of what civics you use also depends on what victory you are going for.

 

[troytheface]

kinda glad this topic came up- think civ4 is a great game and miles ahead of 3- but two issues (really three) are bothersome

Civ3's Goverments and Traits were fine with me. Civics and Leaders just fleshed out the idea numerically. (And so at a certain level Leaders and Civics are not all that big of a problem-same thing- a few more options- ) but other areas of the game are simplified- not that i have a prob with balance or contradiction- more i question the selection. (I would have preferred more goverment selections- Socialism- Oliarchy- ect. I think ur goverment kinda dictates ur Economic policy - doesn't it?(or in some cases vice versa ) As the original poster speaks of - the economic civic is unneccessary in my mind- it should be tied to the Goverment choice. (Ancient Greeks / Phonecians not using Free trade? ) And i miss that ol seafaring trait.

They streamlined air borne assault to 0. (Unless a chopper attack is suppossed to be representative of men jumping out of helicopters in addtion to assault choppers-which i lie to myself about in a game- but of course they can't take cities which negates that notion) And no paratroopers- now c'mon- could be one of the best animations in the game. A plane drop'n a parachute guy. Modern nations still have airborne - think the U.S. invaded northern iraq using airborne. What a bait for the expansion.

and glorious number three , No bi planes!- a semi complaint because i moan about the ommission of this stupid graphic on every fith thread ever since i joined this forum thing-
They were the first seaplanes -i think -so the navy aspect could be bumped up as well. (seaplane on destroyer)

 

[BlackMage]

Please explain why

I play agressive, and rather have mercantilism, Whe is State property so much better???

And Stylesj - It is quite a hard statement to say that Economics are useless

State Property eliminates maintenance costs due to distance from capital, letting you keep your cash that you plundered instead of paying it out.

 

[DraconisRex]

Please explain why

I play agressive, and rather have mercantilism, Whe is State property so much better???

And Stylesj - It is quite a hard statement to say that Economics are useless

No distance penalty. Japan has one city left. The Aztecs have three. I flipped one of the Persian's with my cultural dominance. The Romans are going to have a sudden set-back because they've got every coal on the continenent (Pangea with a rare double-continent (mother-daughter) result.)

If I were running any other Civic, my gold would drop 150, or so, a turn.

 

[mucco]

Definitely the worst civic branch is religion. Government gives representation (specialist economy), universal suffrage, police state and it's enough; legal provides bureaucracy and free speech for builders, and vassalage for warmongers; labor... well, slavery speaks for itself (caste system and emancipation too); economy gives state property, which has been good to me even when i was a little country.
OTOH, religion gives 2 pricey civics, which can upset many people in your game, and pacifism, that is quite good but most useful for builders, and if i'm playing defensively i definitely don't want a (different from my neighbors) state religion. Freedom of religion is almost always a no-brainer, because i switch to it directly from paganism most of the time. But i wouldn't even call FoL a religion-related civic if i don't need a religion at all to use it.

 

[Eternalsteelfan]

State Property is unbelievable for large empires especially in games with many turns, ie: Marathon.

 

[Willem]

(Mechantalism is useless because giving up foreign trade routes is bad unless you are isolated or no open borders agreements),

A free specialist in every city. You're joking right?

You could easily make up the loss of the foreign trade by creating a Merchant in a bunch of cities, plus you get all those free Great Person points. It's not useless at all.

 

[S.ilver]

Mercantilism really depends on the situation. The great people points aren't really as big of an issue, because some cities won't ever produce a great person even with these free specs. If your trades routes are swell, then getting mercantilism can REALLY hurt your economy. So base it on foriegn relations.

 

[Willem]

The great people points aren't really as big of an issue, because some cities won't ever produce a great person even with these free specs.

True, but even in cities that are already running specialists it means that one more person can be put back on the land, which is a bonus.

If your trades routes are swell, then getting mercantilism can REALLY hurt your economy. So base it on foriegn relations.

I usually keep my borders closed until I've completely developed my territory so I don't usually have much in the way of foreign trade routes anyway. So Mercantilism for me is usually a good option. Not always though I have to admit. However if you're behind on tech, having a bunch of free Scientists can really help you catch up.

And it's not just Mercantilism that depends on the situation, all civics have their place.

 

[shadow2k]

But i've never noticed a significant diffrence with the free market civic, not one turn on research changed or any extra gold per turn

But i must admit that state property has its uses, but compartively the other branches are better

Free Market all depends on your trade routes. If your trade routes suck, so will the civic. If you have a bunch of cities with valuable foreign trade routes, the civic can be the best in that branch. So if you aren't using Open Borders and have a small empire, the civic won't make much of a difference at all...or even have a negative impact compared to the civic you were using before.