LightSpectra
me autem minui
God intended life to begin = God "micromanaged" it? What does that even mean?
Mourdock: 2+2=5
- Thread starter AlpsStranger
- Start date
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Either way, he sounds like a weird dude who's moral values hopefully will not be widely adopted by human beings.
G
LightSpectra
me autem minui
All of God's moral values spring from a singular law, to love unconditionally. Any person who honestly and faithfully adopts that value has made the world a better place.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Making the most of a bad situation. He tolerated the evil and intended that good come from it. Heinous evils like rape happen because God gave us free will, tremendous goods like human life happen because God gifted them to us.
I believe in a God that has allowed just enough free will that evil is our own faults, yet all goods are of His doing. Call me stupid or deluded if you want.
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Yup, this is what I totally disagree with. A serial killer who converts while on a death row in my opinion hasn't made the world a better place.
G
LightSpectra
me autem minui
That's because he didn't start loving unconditionally until he had little time left for his rebirth in Christ to have a practical, observable effect. But assuredly, if it was a genuine conversion, then everything after that (as little as it lasted) would have good fruits.
So God takes credit for the good and blames everyone else for the evil? Sounds kind of delusional to me.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
No. I credit God for the good and blame myself for my evils.
Even if you disagree with that mantra, living by that creed makes the best people: humble, honest, and grateful. And people who live by the reverse (blaming God or other people for evil and are self-congratulatory for their accomplishments) turn out spiteful, hateful, prideful.
Seems fairly similar to how many battered spouses think.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2010
- Messages
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That is deeply sad. I don't put much stock in the dogma across different worldviews and faiths, but if I've ever found a singular goal that is truly worth structuring one's life around it is the striving for unconditional love. It's not how we actually live but it is how we should live.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Recognizing that you have faults = being a battered spouse?
Amazing how I've been accused of having that mentality in the same thread that people have insinuated that I'm a rape apologist.
Grendeldef
Trancerelic & coffeeholic
Pardon me if I don't get the unconditionally part but English isn't my 1st (technically not even the 2nd) language. Something either is unconditional or it isn't, right ?
So at first you state that unconditional love is enough but on the 2nd quote there's a condition of time of the conversion and even then the good part only contains the time on a linear scale after the conversion as another condition ?
G
Recognizing your own faults is one thing - claiming you are all the bad in relationship and your only good comes from the other party is similar to the thinking of many a battered spouse.
GhostWriter16
Deity
Absolutely untrue.
Its Jollyroger, he's going to say everything he can to trip you up even when there's zero substance to it. Don't even bother.
I should point out since someone PMed me about it, I did not say abortion should be legal in rape cases, nor did I suggest in this thread that it should be legal in any other situation (Although my position is that to save the mother's life it is a legitimate, though sad, act of self-defense.) That's the only time I think it should be legal.
What I was trying to say is that since I can't imagine being in the situation of being impregnated by rape, I'm not going to judge.
That I won't judge that unfortunate situation doesn't mean that it is OK. The fetus is still innocent here.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
Hmm, I don't really know how to explain this in a simpler way :-/
Unconditional love means loving others no matter their qualities, and putting their goods before your own. If it's true love, you can never stop loving somebody (else it was not genuine), but it still has a 'beginning'. A converted murderer starts loving unconditionally the moment he gives his life to God.
Here's the defining difference; the abusive spouse didn't create you, in any way. He/she degrades your already-existing qualities. God made you and loves you just the way you are. So any good qualities you have are because He made you as such. Yet, He respects your free will and thus tolerates any evils you commit.
You are a good person and deserve to exist by the simple fact that God willed your existence; He loves you unconditionally. The same cannot be said of an abusive spouse.
An abusive spouse uses your faults and mistakes as an excuse to hurt you and torment you. God uses your mistakes as an excuse to show Himself to you.
God loves me so unconditionally, that there is a good chance he will make me suffer eternally. Yep - battered spouse thinking.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
That is what faith is. It's the only thing Martin Luther got right: it's believing that you will be saved the moment you need God the most, uttermost trust that He does unconditionally love you.
It seems pretty conditional to me.
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