Muslim hypocrisy?

[HannibalBarka]

It appears that the concept of sarcasm is as foreign to you as freedom of speech is to an islamist.

A french humorist one said "We should make fun about avery thing, but not with every one". Sorry but hearing jokes about Muslims with you is like sharing jewish jokes with a Nazi

 

[la cosa nostra]

A french humorist one said "We should make fun about avery thing, but not with every one". Sorry but hearing jokes about Muslims with you is like sharing jewish jokes with a Nazi

Man ... I wasnt joking ...

But I can see already that you have some major misconceptions about my postion, most likely you suspect me of being a racist, or maybe even a fascist due to my position on muslim immigration and the Islmic faith. My decision has nothing to do with racism, but rather with my political philosophy, I believe that in most cases, the end does justify the means.

Let me ask you a question, say that you knew beforehand that the london bombings were going to happen and slaughter 100 people or so, say also that you knew that the perpetrators of these crimes would be those of pakistani muslim immigrants, would you quell this immigration to stop them, or would you sacrafice 100 britons upon the altar of good faith? This is to a lesser degree the same question we have before us now.

You have a unadvanced, but strong culture invading a progressive, but weak (made weak by the gullable people who think like you btw.) culture. No I dont expect deportation of troublemakers, I'm a realist, I know that there a few politicians in Europe with the intelligence and balls to make the right decisions, but maybe if we start heading in that direction we could inform the troublemakers better.

 

[AceChilla]

The fact that theirs alot of hypocrisy and double standerds in the Muslim world, including the European part of the muslim world was already well known to me and doesn't surprise me.

What sickens me more is the newspaper and the European union apologizing for it, that betrays any values we as Europe should stand for and shows just how weak we are. And it just what the fundamentalists want. Just like in the old days, when muslims would let people have their faith as long as they recognised Islam to be greater than their faith and anything else, and bowed down when a muslim passed by. That's were we are going.

 

[HannibalBarka]

...
Let me ask you a question, say that you knew beforehand that the london bombings were going to happen and slaughter 100 people or so, say also that you knew that the perpetrators of these crimes would be those of pakistani muslim immigrants, would you quell this immigration to stop them, or would you sacrafice 100 britons upon the altar of good faith?...

If I do that, quell this immigration like you say, than I would scrifice all the values I believe in and I won't be any better than the very scam terrorists I am fighting against. Because every single day people from All Races do kill and rape people aroound the world. If I follow your weird, and racist, method, than we all should be deported to the moon.

 

[Winner]

The fact that theirs alot of hypocrisy and double standerds in the Muslim world, including the European part of the muslim world was already well known to me and doesn't surprise me.

What sickens me more is the newspaper and the European union apologizing for it, that betrays any values we as Europe should stand for and shows just how weak we are. And it just what the fundamentalists want. Just like in the old days, when muslims would let people have their faith as long as they recognised Islam to be greater than their faith and anything else, and bowed down when a muslim passed by. That's were we are going.

Some of the politicans have the guts to defend the freedom of speech, some of them don't. We should remember those who have and vote for them in next elections.

 

[Rambuchan]

Winner: I think you've made a very good case for why Muslim leaders should be more vociferous in their condemnation of terrorism. It's not a new idea though. They've been under this pressure for some time and they really aren't stepping up nearly enough, nor denouncing these acts with sufficient volume to get the message across. That message needs to go out to the Muslim world to remind them where their religious values should be at and it needs to go out as a message to the West that they do not identify with, support or accept acts of terrorism. It's a PR thing as much as anything, as you rightly point out.

 

[la cosa nostra]

If I do that, quell this immigration like you say, than I would scrifice all the values I believe in and I won't be any better than the very scam terrorists I am fighting against. Because every single day people from All Races do kill and rape people aroound the world. If I follow your weird, and racist, method, than we all should be deported to the moon.

So you would knowingly let 100 people die so you can let in thousands of muslim immigrants?

Up there ladies and gentelmen is the reason why leftists and liberals cant get elected in any country.

 

[willemvanoranje]

So you would knowingly let 100 people die so you can let in thousands of muslim immigrants?

Up there ladies and gentelmen is the reason why leftists and liberals cant get elected in any country.

come to europe...



Anyway, the point he originally tried to make I think, and which I back up completely, is that we should look upon ourselves too. The reason that muslim leaders don't say that much about terrorism being bad, is the same reason that refrains western governments from condemning all the civilian casualties in afghanistan, iraq and other countries where the USA and the western world put their military in to action...

 

[Steph]

Let me ask you a question, say that you knew beforehand that the london bombings were going to happen and slaughter 100 people or so, say also that you knew that the perpetrators of these crimes would be those of pakistani muslim immigrants, would you quell this immigration to stop them, or would you sacrafice 100 britons upon the altar of good faith? This is to a lesser degree the same question we have before us now.

What if you stop the immigration, but because you are seen as an evil racist a loony leftist will put in bomb in your office and kill 200 britons?
Or if you quell immigration, but 10000 would be immigrants starve in their country? Or that 5000 pakistani women who could have live peacefully in England are burnt alive by jealous husbands in some tribal areas in Pakistan?
How many pakistani immigrants is there in UK? How many took part in the subway bombing?
Are you ready to sacrifice the 932,000 Pakistani and Bangladeshis living in UK because of the deeds of a few dozens to save 100 Britons?

Are you ready to sacrifice your freedom to move where you want to protect the freedom of speech?

The answer is not to quell imigration. The answer is to make the imigrant willing to adopt are values.
And your atitude and others will not help at all. Because when I read you, I'm not intinced at all to adopt your values. Why should muslims be?

 

[bigfatron]

come to europe...

Anyway, the point he originally tried to make I think, and which I back up completely, is that we should look upon ourselves too. The reason that muslim leaders don't say that much about terrorism being bad, is the same reason that refrains western governments from condemning all the civilian casualties in afghanistan, iraq and other countries where the USA and the western world put their military in to action...

Exactly - something about 'motes and beams' comes to mind, although maybe in this case Jesus' parable should have been about beams and beams....

For what it is worth, here is one liberal who is absolutely adamant that our right to free speech should be respected - to those who complain that blasphemy against Chrisitanity is illegal in the UK while taking the mick out of other religions is legal, I say: get rid of the blasphemy laws. To those who compain about cartoons of Mohammed in a paper, I say: don't buy the frikking paper.

Once again, old superstitions are used by the manipulative and power hungry to hold the world back.....

 

[willemvanoranje]

to those who complain that blasphemy against Chrisitanity is illegal in the UK while taking the mick out of other religions is legal, I say: get rid of the blasphemy laws.

There's still blasphemy laws in England? Should I send a copy of Voltaire or Montesquieu or someone like that to the queen?

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

There's still blasphemy laws in England? Should I send a copy of Voltaire or Montesquieu or someone like that to the queen?

I have no idea what blasphemy laws he is refering to.

 

[AceChilla]

There's still blasphemy laws in England? Should I send a copy of Voltaire or Montesquieu or someone like that to the queen?

We also still have blasphemy laws over here in The Netherlands Willem

 

[bigfatron]

I have no idea what blasphemy laws he is refering to.

It is still illegal to commit blasphemy in the UK - it is rarely used, Mary Whiotehouse brought a prosecution against the Last Temptation of Christ a few years' back, and there was talk about trying a prosecution against Jerry Springer: The Opera, but I don't think it actually happened.

It's one of the main reasons other faiths use to justify their demand for a 'respect for religious belief' law.

 

[willemvanoranje]

We also still have blasphemy laws over here in The Netherlands Willem

WHAT? We do? Jesus.. I cannot remember anytime when we used this though! I'll call Remkes to kick it out of the law books.. and Donner maybe?

EDIT: OMG! Found them!

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Artikel 147 en 147a Wetboek van Strafrecht

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Artikel 147


Met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste drie maanden of geldboete van de tweede categorie wordt gestraft:
1. hij die zich in het openbaar, mondeling of bij geschrift of afbeelding, door smalende godslasteringen op voor godsdienstige gevoelens krenkende wijze uitlaat;

2. hij die een bedienaar van de godsdienst in de geoorloofde waarneming van zijn bediening bespot;

3. hij die voorwerpen aan een eredienst gewijd, waar en wanneer de uitoefening van die dienst geoorloofd is, beschimpt.

Artikel 147a

1. Hij die een geschrift of afbeelding waarin uitlatingen voorkomen die, als smalende godslasteringen, voor godsdienstige gevoelens krenkend zijn, verspreidt, openlijk tentoonstelt of aanslaat of, om verspreid, openlijk tentoongesteld of aangeslagen te worden, in voorraad heeft, wordt, indien hij weet of ernstige reden heeft om te vermoeden dat in het geschrift of de afbeelding zodanige uitlatingen voorkomen, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste twee maanden of geldboete van de tweede categorie.

2. Met dezelfde straf wordt gestraft hij die, met gelijke wetenschap of een gelijke reden tot vermoeden, de inhoud van een zodanig geschrift openlijk ten gehore brengt.

3. Indien de schuldige een van de misdrijven omschreven in dit artikel in zijn beroep begaat en er, tijdens het plegen van het misdrijf, nog geen twee jaren zijn verlopen sedert een vroegere veroordeling van de schuldige wegens een van deze misdrijven onherroepelijk is geworden, kan hij van de uitoefening van dat beroep worden ontzet.

We can put the Danish guy in jail for max. three months! We really need to kick this out...

 

[Hitro]

To those who compain about cartoons of Mohammed in a paper, I say: don't buy the frikking paper.

This is really the key to the whole issue of offensiveness.

 

[Jawz II]

The fact that theirs alot of hypocrisy and double standerds in the Muslim world, including the European part of the muslim world was already well known to me and doesn't surprise me.

What sickens me more is the newspaper and the European union apologizing for it, that betrays any values we as Europe should stand for and shows just how weak we are. And it just what the fundamentalists want. Just like in the old days, when muslims would let people have their faith as long as they recognised Islam to be greater than their faith and anything else, and bowed down when a muslim passed by. That's were we are going.

yeah, but to be able to bow, you have to be alive. do you know what christian crusaders did to the muslims, in the lands that they conquered?

good example of hypocracy right there.


besides, how is that where were going? its christians conquering muslim lands now, im sure youve heard of afghanistan and iraq.

 

[Gelion]

Some Westerners seem to suffer from a particular form of masochism. They spit someone in the face and when they are punched back they swear and blame the other side (call other person names).

IMO its the same in this so called Muslim vs. Western struggle.
You stand for free speech, free travel and freedom of faith?
Fine then you should be prepared that people come to your part of the world because its nicer here, practice their faith here and retain their customs (the melting pot of cultures? be prepared to melt yourself)

How arogant one has to be to provoke the whole Muslim world into rage after publishing the pcitures. Was the reaction violent and as you say barbaric. In many cases yes, but what did you expect?!!!!

It is a globalized world and news spread globably. There is an old saying "don't go to another church with your Testament". I think you know what it means. The world got smaller and everything you do in your country affects the other countries maybe 1000's of kilometers away. If Danes wanted to show how free their press was they had to consider that they will hurt many millions of other people by doing so. It is a globalized world and if you want it to become something better you should consider the harm you may cause by doing something that will surely enrage someone.

On topic: Has anyone ever considered that other parts of the world don't operate by the same standarts? If I was in country X and openly said that I dont like some members of the country X commiting terrorism. That would be fine by me, but if I were to get killed by the very same terrorsits for being "unfaithful" or "wrong" what would the mighty West that wants "peace and prosperity for all" do to protect my family and me? In other parts of the world one can get shot easier and faster than here. Sure you can protest in your lovely tide countries, but dont expect some other people to put their life on the line for "appreciation" of your ideas.
Especially if a member of that country X reads some of the fascist statements here like "All Muslims are terrorists" (yes thats you Winner) and asks himself "why should I stick my neck out even if those we are meant to live together with, treat us as dirt?"

 

[Jawz II]

i do belive the muslim response is very exaggerated, then again i also think insulting muslims in europe now, is very low.

its kicking on someone whos already down, example when was the last time this paper made fun of jews? back in the 1930s?

 

[Gelion]

I dont mean you Jaws, I know that you have a sober mind. If anything I was referring to other statements above...

As for the responce.... well papers have a job to do don't they?