My next Project - WWII in Europe

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by kobayashi:
Russian Planes.
I think I will stick with the Yak3 as the later plane and use the I-16 type 24

Sounds good. The Yak was the most numerious a/c that the Russians had in the later half of WWII, just as the I-16 was in the earlier war period. I just think the La-7 looks cooler.

PS: I downloaded the scenario.


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All knowledge begins with the Phrase: I don't know

[This message has been edited by Alcibiaties of Athenae (edited March 06, 2001).]

 

[willemvanoranje]

I want to clear one thing up for all WWII scenario creators. It is not Me 108, Me 109 or Me 110. It is Bf 108, Bf 109 and Bf 110. Me comes from Messerschmitt. These planes were constructed by Messerschmitt. But!!!! The design for all of the three, the prototype and first production were all done in the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (Bf). The Bf were later bought by Willy Messerschmitt, and that's why later planes were called ME (Me 210, Me 410, Me 262, Me 163) I hope you use this information Kobayashi.

Oh yeah. I think you should use the B17. It was very important. More important than the Wellington or the B29. The B29 was more of a Pacific airplane. The b17 was far more active in Europe than the B29

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by willemvanoranje:
I want to clear one thing up for all WWII scenario creators. It is not Me 108, Me 109 or Me 110. It is Bf 108, Bf 109 and Bf 110. Me comes from Messerschmitt. These planes were constructed by Messerschmitt. But!!!! The design for all of the three, the prototype and first production were all done in the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (Bf). The Bf were later bought by Willy Messerschmitt, and that's why later planes were called ME (Me 210, Me 410, Me 262, Me 163) I hope you use this information Kobayashi.

Your absolutly right on this Willem, but the allied (Britain and United states) pilots always used the incorrect designator Me for the 109,110, and the 108 trainer. It is used in official US documentation(the incorrect Me), and in endless memoirs(By allied personnel). This is something that persists to this day.

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All knowledge begins with the Phrase: I don't know

 

[Dreadnought]

Love your units!! Beautiful!! You hit an all the major units without overdong anything.

I support the plea fir B-17 they were by far the main US plan used. The B-24 and B-25 were mainly tactical bomber and do not dtick so well in the memory of WWII fans. (no one else will ever see the difference)

For what its worth, You have my stamp of approval.

Question..are you designing your own terrian?


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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

 

[kobayashi]

for arguements sake, lets say I put the B-17 in.

It can't replace the Wellington (or Blenheim, Beufort, Hampden) as they were used much later.

Personally I think the B-24 was a better bomber(B-17 was a much earlier design)but I must agree that B-17 is much more famous and representative.

If both the B-17 and the Lancaster (of tallboy-tirpitz, dambuster fame) appear, how should they be distinguished. One will make the other obsolete but they were both used at the same time (albeit by day and night).

I also need the B-29 to give the allies a good bomber advantage at the later stage. That's supposed to be the Allies strong point.

p.s. I will use Me BF109D as the unit name so that everyone will be happy. That's the name that typically appears on model kit boxes.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by kobayashi:
for arguements sake, lets say I put the B-17 in.It can't replace the Wellington (or Blenheim, Beufort, Hampden) as they were used much later.Personally I think the B-24 was a better bomber(B-17 was a much earlier design)but I must agree that B-17 is much more famous and representative.
If both the B-17 and the Lancaster (of tallboy-tirpitz, dambuster fame) appear, how should they be distinguished. One will make the other obsolete but they were both used at the same time (albeit by day and night).

The B-24 was used both by the British(In costal command), as well as the US, and there were three times as many liberator wings as flying fortress wings, so the B-24 is more important then the B-17. However, the B-17 was available from 1939, and the B-24 not untill 1942, the same as the Lancaster. You could pull the wellington in favor of the B-17. The Lancaster must have a place. It carried the largest bomb load of any allied bomber untill the B-29, and how can you have tall-boy and dam-buster tech without it?

I also need the B-29 to give the allies a good bomber advantage at the later stage. That's supposed to be the Allies strong point.

I agree, keep the B-29.

p.s. I will use Me BF109D as the unit name so that everyone will be happy. That's the name that typically appears on model kit boxes.

I think you mean the BF-109E. The Dora(109D), had a different engine and was used in small numbers in France, but not after that.

I think it's a shame to lose the Wellington. Don't you have a slot saved that you sneak in a Flying Fortress? You could use it in tandom with the Lancaster. The Lancaster could have longer range and higher attack factor, but the B-17 could have a higher DF and more hit points, but both could appear under the same tech(is that possible?).


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<FONT COLOR="blue">All knowledge begins with the Phrase: I don't know</FONT c>

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

That ol' DP.

[This message has been edited by Alcibiaties of Athenae (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

[kobayashi]

OK OK OK OK I will squeeze the B-17 in somehow but it cannot replace the Wellington. Although the B-17 is 1939 vintage, the Americans didn't join the war effort yet and they didn't lend lease any B-17s to anybody.

However, it must be done in such a way that the Allied player will build both Lancaster and B-17. Maybe it will be a special unbuildable unit and the Allied player will get 10 free in stages in America or something. Let me think about it more.

One more thing, let me say again that my idea is to give minute attack factors to all bombers and simply letting them pillage (as Axis and Allies will be played by humans). The ground attack craft will be the one which can attack tanks.

On a related note, does anyone know of an idea to stop the players from launching their big bombers from carriers?

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Ask that they don't do it...it can be as simple as that. To do so is cheating.

As there IS no other solution mate -unless you can get the source code etc.

 

[kobayashi]

I've finished making the units and am moving on. There will be 7 races

Allies include
USA
UK(plus their parts of Africa)

Allies Friendly include
France(plus their parts of Africa)
Greece
Poland

Axis include
Germany
Czech
Austria

Axis Friendly include
Italy (plus their parts of Africa)
Bulgaria
Hungary
Romania
Finland

Neutrals include
Holland
Belgium
Latvia
Estonia
Lithiuania
Norway
Denmark
Yugoslavia
Albania

Independents include
Spain
Portugal
Turkey
Switzerland
Sweden

Russians include
Russians

The Axis and their Friendlies cannot talk to the Allies and their Friendlies so are always at war. However, the Friendlies can talk to their partners and everyone else and even declare war.

Everyone else can talk to everybody.

There will be a house rule that the Allies cannot declare war on anyone except the Russians.

 

[willemvanoranje]

I just want to say that the Netherlands were oficially neutral, but they had certain negotiations with the allies. They just couldn 't say something against Germany bewcause Holland would be bombed until the Northsea had flooded the whole country if they'd done that. But I can understand why you put us in the "neutrals" and I'm not asking you to change it.

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[willemvanoranje]

I'd use the Bf109E and/or Bf109 'Gustav'. The first one was important in the early stages, the last one in the defence of Germany (together with the K).

I have my doubts about the He 227. I know you probarly chose that one for the balance in the game, but Germany didn't really have much airplanes with 4 engines.

And are you going to have 1 or 2 Dutch cities (or do you call it HOLLAND). If you take a second city, take Rotterdam. It's famous for the bombing raid by 100 Heinkels. The Dutch already surrendered, but the Heinkels still bombed R'dam, killing over a 1000 people, making 34000 homeless and destroying over a 2000 buildings.

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[kobayashi]

Agree with you completely on Holland. It was probably the same with many other 'neutrals'. In fact most of the minor Axis allies were 'coerced' as well with the exception of Bulgaria and many fought on both sides like the Finns. I will try to put in two Dutch cities including Rotterdam.

I will use 109E instead of D as you suggest but the later plane has to be FW190D which was far superior as the 109 airframe was already a decade old when the 190 D series was introduced.

Yeah the HE 277 is there for balance. It is the four engine variant of the HE 177 and was used primarily for long range maritime functions. There was probably only one squadron and one was modified to carry the A-bomb which never materialised. The other four engine plane was the FW Condor which was a pre-war airliner converted to maritime recon.

A bit more on the air scheme:

Does anyone know how the US bombers moved over to Britain. Did they fly non-stop or did they have to refuel in Iceland or something?

Any strong objection to making all the high altitue bombers as helicopters? Then they will not land on carriers and they have to return to base after a few turns any way.

The fighters will have two turns so they can stack with a bomber for one turn while the ground attack will have one turn but multiple attacks.

[This message has been edited by kobayashi (edited March 09, 2001).]

 

[willemvanoranje]

I agree with you on the Focke-Wulf Fw 190. I read somewhere that the first bombers that flew over to Britain, had to refuel on Greenland. One of those convoys couldn't find the airbase there and ran out of fuel. Maybe they didn't refuel later. I don't know. And did you kow the Allied had three American/English bases in Russia? They weren't allowed to do much, but what they did do is dropping food/ammo/etc. for the resistance in Warsaw.

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[Dreadnought]

Please don't split up Germany and Itlay, there's almost no way to keep them form braking an alliance. What i'm saying is that CivII by default is bad with alliances and attitude ajustments. Only if you put on NO Negotiations with other civs would you keep that from happening, but then that would n't be realistic.

For historical sake pur Germany and Italy in the same nation.

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

 

[willemvanoranje]

He's got a point. But you must concider, Dreadnought, that they had their little fights (Hitler vs. Mussolini), and the Italian troops were very weak, the Germans had very strong troops.

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Concordia res parvae cres****.

 

[Dreadnought]

Yes true, but this isn't going to be 100% realistic, like Kobayashi said, hitler going to die. Also one scenario i played on WWII had the ability to build both itlain and german troops, the italian troops were much weaker.

But you build german units in Itlain cities.

I still hold to my original aurgument.

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

 

[kobayashi]

In actual history, there was a coup and Il Duce (Mussolini) had to be rescued by german comandoes.

Also in the end the Italians revolted and the Germans confiscated everything and took over comletely. They also sank the entire Italian fleet including one famous episode where a battleship was sunk by a wire guided glider bomb.

In the scenario, the Germans will have the option to annex their satellites if they are uncooperative.

Finland also turned coat after they couldn't hold off the Russians anymore and they fought on both sides and managed to stay independent. Same thing happend in Romania (or was that Bulgaria). So you see its quite realistic.

 

[Dreadnought]

Annex?? So interesting, how exactly did you do that, Kob?

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

 

[kobayashi]

Don't understand. Did I use the wrong spelling.

I meant Germans declare war and attack its allies and gobble up their cities. Most of the tech the minor Axis are using are given at the discretion of the Germans so they will always be technologically behind.