Mystical Asia - Development Thread

[Lord Gideon]

Here are my ideas for religion civics:

Name: Heathenism
Upkeep: low
Effect: Basic Religous civic
Comments: You have no religion and just do what feels right.

Name: Mythology
Upkeep: low
Effect: Myth units get +2 exp points
Comments: You believe in the local legends and myths handed down about your religion. The myths can vary considerably, and are different from region to region.

Name: Divine Right
Upkeep: Med
Effect: +2 in cities with state religion, 50% less resistance time.
Comments: The belief that the leader is chosen by the heavens, and obedience to the leader is obedience to the gods.

Name: Imperial Encouragement
Upkeep: High
Effect: +100% production for missionaries of state religion.
Comments: The empire encourages the spread of it's religions and encourages people to spread it.

Name: Religious Assimilation
Upkeep: low
Effect: You have no state religion. You get a positive diplomatic bonus if a city of yours shares the state religion with that civ, no negative modifiers, +1 in each city with a religion.
Comments: You follow the ways of whomever you deal with. You are comfortable with multiple religions, and go with the flow.

Name: Crusading
Upkeep: High
Effect: All units +3 exp points in cities with state religion, higher negative modifier if nation has different state religion, negative modifier if no state religion.
Comments: Religion should be spread- at the point of a sword. If the dang pagans refuse to accept your religion, on their own heads be it!

Name: Holy Knights
Upkeep: Med
Effect: You can train a special unit, Templar Knight, that can be sacraficed to give your state religion to a city.
Comments: You have an order of holy warriors willing to spread your religion, yet are also deaadly to disagree with.

Again, I think we should limit it to 5, and please give your own sugestions/comments.

 

[Civmansam]

I'm thinking of adding 5 nuetral civs. Good Idea?

 

[kevjm]

Will they be Asian, European or something else? I'd say the more civs the better! Just so long as they still get a mythical unit/unique ability

 

[Civmansam]

They'll be a mix. I'll post them on the main page soon

 

[Animus.Anima]

hey, couple ideas for the invader mythic units--

For Spain, how about the Jentilak? A giant from basque mythology, probably a good bruiser unit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jentilak)

For France, I tracked down something about Melusina, a creature that was half-woman, half-serpent. (http://www2.sjsu.edu/depts/jwss/annotations/possession/melusina.html)

I don't know if this is the kind of thing you're looking for in the mod, but it's too cool of an idea not to try to help.

 

[Civmansam]

What do you think of these nuetral civs?

Russia
Italy
Greece
Egypt
Ottomans?

 

[Lord Gideon]

Depending on the time, would the Byzantine Empire be more accurate than the ottoman? If it's before 1400, the Byzantine Empire would have been a larger entity than the Ottoman.

 

[kevjm]

Depending on the time, would the Byzantine Empire be more accurate than the ottoman? If it's before 1400, the Byzantine Empire would have been a larger entity than the Ottoman.

Why not have both

 

[Lord Gideon]

I'm fine with both. A still large, but weakening Byzantine Empire with an Ottoman Empire poised to strike.

How about add Portugal to the neutral civs? They colonised a large part of the world including areas in Asia. The British port of Hong Kong was long rivaled by the Portugeuse port of Macao, also in that area of southern China.

Ok, for Civics, how about a category called Empire?

Name: Kingdom
Upkeep: Low
Effect: Basic empire civic
Comments: A nation united by one ruler, contains primarily one nationality.

Name: Tribal-Unity
Upkeep: Med
Effect: +50% city upkeep, +4 culture per city
Comments: Several different tribes have been unified together as one nation, but to keep them together requires greater effort. However, because each city is so distinct, they have greater culture.

Name: Provincial Nobles
Upkeep: Low
Effect: +100% GP points, -50% unit upkeep. Small chance every turn for each city with less than three military units in it will become barbarian.
Comments: By allowing the day-to-day rulings to go to the nobles of the provinces of your empire, you let people develop their own ideas more freely. The nobles also help pay for the armies out of their own pockets. However, this encourages a bit of greed for power among the nobles, and too small of a military presence might give them ideas...

Name: Motherland
Upkeep: Low
Effect: +25% defense in top 5 cities, enemy unit's heal 50% slower in your territory.
Comments: Can anyone say Russia? "Rule one of war: Don't march on Moscow"

Name: Colonial Empire
Upkeep: None
Effect: No maintenance cost from distance to palace, +50% movement rate for ships.
Comments: A good seafaring empire, this is exemplified by Portugal in the 1500s, or Britain in the 1700s.


Name: Bastion Territory
Upkeep: Very High
Effect: No upkeep cost for 3 largest cities, walls +25% defense, castles +25% defense, Castles provide +2 exp points for each unit made.
Comments: A small but very well defended country, you are well defended from attack by a larger nation. Think of minor European nations. It's useless for a large empire because of the upkeep.

Name: Represenative Republic
Upkeep: low
Effect: You get +1 and +2 for each different nationality you have.
Comments: An empire of many different ethnicities, you are tolerant towards all and this expresses itself in happier citizens and greater cultural variety.

 

[Lord Gideon]

Ok, for the next civic, lets do labor. So far we have Mythology, Religion, Empire, and Labor civic categories.

Name: Tribalism
Upkeep:low
Effect: Basic labor civ
Comment: You give all your effort to the tribe, the tribe gives you back it's effort.

Name: Caste System
Upkeep: Med
Effect: Can force as many Engineers, Artists, and Merchants as you want.
Comment: Who you were born to determines your position in society. I thought engineers would be more appropriate for this time period than scientists.

Name: Serfdom
Upkeep: Low
Effect: Workers build improvements 50% faster.
Comment: You give a group of serfs to a noble, and they do the

Name: Exchequer
Upkeep: Med
Effect: Can spend to finish production in a city.
Comments: If you need something built, pay people to do it!

Name: Apprenticeship
Upkeep: High
Effect: Workshops +2 Towns and villages +1
Comment: Youth get trained to do their career by apprenticing themselves to the more experienced.

Name: Ruralism
Upkeep: High
Effect: Farms +1
Comment: Your people are mostly working in the country, not the cities.

Name: Urbanism
Upkeep: High
Effect: All cities larger than 7 +4, towns +2
Comment: Your people gather together in large cities, with fewer working farms and fields.

Again, I'm open to suggestions/modifications. If something is too powerful, not powerful enough, of just sux, don't use it. Glad I can be helping with this.

 

[kevjm]

I don't think nation should be the basic empire civic, it should definately be further down the list in my opinion- put tribal unity as the basic civic perhaps? Nation could give +1 or 2 happyness in all cities originally build by you, and increase the 'we want to join our motherland!' unhappyness with any other civs holding one of your cities?

Perhaps I should suggest a civic like this to one of the modern-based mods...

 

[seZereth]

Ok, guys some good news for you I am doing units for India, Arabia, Nippon, China (cathay) for our (ok, well J calls it "his") Warhammer FB mod, (i allready did almost the complete empirial Army, for someone who knows wh fb ) most of my creations can be found summarized in the wh fb thread, post number 5. so i like this mod idea, keep up the solid base work and i might get u some solid unit graphics

Thats no promise, but you should keep an eye on unit graphics thread

 

[Lord Gideon]

I don't think nation should be the basic empire civic, it should definately be further down the list in my opinion- put tribal unity as the basic civic perhaps? Nation could give +1 or 2 happyness in all cities originally build by you, and increase the 'we want to join our motherland!' unhappyness with any other civs holding one of your cities?

Perhaps I should suggest a civic like this to one of the modern-based mods...

Nation seems like a bit too modern for a Medieval based mod, however, I might be wrong. I agree it doesn't sound like the right basic civ, though. I like tribal-unity, reminds me a lot of the Mongols. What else would be a good name for basic civ? I have no idea. I changed it in the above post until resolved.

EDIT-glad to have you on the board, seZereth

 

[Civmansam]

Ok, guys some good news for you I am doing units for India, Arabia, Nippon, China (cathay) for our (ok, well J calls it "his") Warhammer FB mod, (i allready did almost the complete empirial Army, for someone who knows wh fb ) most of my creations can be found summarized in the wh fb thread, post number 5. so i like this mod idea, keep up the solid base work and i might get u some solid unit graphics

Thats no promise, but you should keep an eye on unit graphics thread

Wow. I have seen your work and it's fabulous. Cool to have you making some units we could use.

 

[Civmansam]

Lord Gideon thank you so much for your suggestions. You have great stuff. Can you do any Programming?

 

[Lord Gideon]

Well, I've got zero experience at programming. However my dad's awesome and he's giving me lessons, so, I'm able to do some stuff in XML. Mostly I'll contribute to the design and planning, but I can program if you want me. My dad can help me if I get stuck. And Civmansam, thanks for listening to my ideas. Glad to be working on it.
Okay, here's a shot at a Military civic category.

Name: Millitia
Upkeep: Low
Effects: Basic Military civic
Comments: You have a group of people dedicated to protecting your nation.

Name: Guerilla Army
Upkeep: Med
Effects: Unit upkeep greatly increased, all land units given Guerilla I and II, and Woodsman I and II.
Comments: You have a small but well trained army. They know the land very well, and they know how to use it to defeat a larger army.

Name: Army En Masse
Upkeep: Med
Effects: Unit upkeep greatly decreased, 75% increase for military units, barracks effects suspended.
Comments: You maintain a very large army, at the expense of experience of your troops.

Name: Military Hiearchy
Upkeep: High
Effects: All units with 17+ experience give a 20% combat increase to units in a stack with them, and 10% combat increase to units by them.
Comments: You put your more experienced soldiers in charge of others as officers, letting them lend their knowledge of tactics and battle to the cannon-fodder.

Name: Mercenaries
Upkeep: None
Effects:You can buy a unit from a city with ; similiar to drafting with nationhood, but instead of pop and no . Also, 50% less war-weariness.
Comments: You buy your soldiers instead of training them yourself. It is very popular with your people because it is not their sons who are dying in foriegn lands.

Name: Exploration
Upkeep: Low
Effects: Naval units and Recon units +100%, Naval units start with Navigation I, Recon units get Sentry.
Comments: Good for exploring enemy lands before the assault, or good for establishing rule of the seven seas.

Name: Patriotism
Upkeep: High
Effects: +100% UU and +100% Myth unit
Comments: Your people are proud of their nation and are well trained in the legends and folklore surrounding. Your difference makes you stronger, and you emphasize it.


Ok, so far we have working versions of Religion, Mythology, Empire, Labor, and Military. I think we should have government, and maybe economy. What other categories should we have? Should we trash any of the ones we have? I'm a little iffy about Mythology, it only effects a single unit per civ, but since it's a unique feature to this mod I think it's best to keep it. Also, should we have a magical element to this mod? We can have different spellcasters like mages, druids, wizards, witches, gurus, and lamas, etc. They can have different effects such as healing units, promoting units, reducing enemy units strength, summon up mythological units, convert units, etc. It would help make the mod feel more "mystical". Different civ's spellcasters could do different things. The Druids, France or Englands spellcasters, could be good at building sacred sites which could serve a variety of purposes. Indian or Chinese Lamas could have a spell that could let them transform a regular unit into a missionary. We could have a Magic civic category. Just an idea to think about.

 

[Civmansam]

I think Empire is close enough to government.
Great Civics Gideon!

 

[Lord Gideon]

Thanks, civmanam. Ok, with Government out of it, all we have left is economy, unless something else comes up.

Name: Barter
Upkeep: Low
Effects: Basic economy civic
Comment: You trade what you have for what you want

Name: National Curency
Upkeep: Med
Effects: +2 trade routes, no foriegn trade.
Comment: Your nation has a single currency, which is used throughout your empire.

Name: Spoils of War
Upkeep: Low
Effects: Pillaging results in 3x as much gold
Comment: Your people are a warlike and agressive people and raid other nations to get what they need.

Name: Manoralism
Upkeep: High
Effects: Farms produce +2 commerce
Comment: You assign your land to several nobles who let lower class members work the soil, in exchange for giving them a share of the profits.

Name: Overseas Territories
Upkeep: Low
Effects: Docks and Harbors(Or any naval buildings that will be in the mod) cost 50% less, Each surplus resource provides +2 coin.
Comment: You have several overseas territories and they are gathering rare and exotic goods for your empire.

Name: Banking Establishments
Upkeep: High
Effects: Each turn you make 5% of your total gold
Comment: By investing your money you are able to make a profit off the total amount of money you have.

Name: Free Trade
Upkeep:Low
Effects: All cities get +1 happiness for each trade route
Comment: You let your people trade with other nations to get luxuries and goods not found within your own borders, and these appease the people.

Unless we implement the magic idea, I think this will be all the civics for now. Next I'll start working on a very rough draft of a unit tree, if that's alright. Should we give the same units and techs to the Asian and European civs? Or should they have different techs and units? Also, what century would this Mod start in?

 

[Lord Gideon]

Okay, I've been working on the unit tree and I'm nearly finished. I think we should thing about what specialists we want. I think we should have artists, scientists, engineers, merchants from the game. Should we have any other type? We should eliminate the Priest specialist if what I'm planning on the unit tree will work. I should be done this evening. It starts with units from the middle of the dark ages, and the only gunpowder unit is the frigate, a ship with cannons. It has over 50 units, a class for Recon, Melee, Range, Cavalry, Siege, Economic, Religion, and Naval. It has a whole new worker and religion unit method. It might be a little too complicated to program, or maybe you want to trash the whole new worker/religious thing. The only thing I'm worried about is it is obviously written from a western perspective. It only has a few Eastern specific units. I don't know that much about Eastern Warfare and I don't know how similiar it was to western. Other than that, remember I'm open to suggestions and ideas, or criticism.

Edit: Sorry guys, I can't get it done tonight, should be here tomorrow afternoon. School

 

[kevjm]

Specialists: How about replacing the priest with a summoner specialist or something similar, which increases say production of mythical units by 2-3% each and gives an amount of gold? Obviously, you could just turn all your citizens into summoners when building a myth unit, but that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. Would it be possible to have different empires to have different specialists depending on which civics they have and what nationallity they are? (e.g. Chinese) now that the SDK is out?

Units: I don't think the Asian civs should be given as many gunpowder units, and certainly not frigates! (Or at least not before the Europeans have them).