Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by mythmonster2, Jan 8, 2008.
Well, we've already got two non-experienced, but we just need two more trainers!
Welcome to CFC, Stainless Steel!
myth, CBob is offering to fill that position, and Steel wants to join too.
Hello and thank you for welcoming me!
I look forward to participating in the forums.
I'm working on COTM44 quick start challenge right now. I'll be submitting it in the next few days. I don't know if the QSC & timeline are posted, but it will give you an idea of my playing style.
Again, I'm really here to improve. I feel like I've maxed out my potential as a peaceful Civer and want to move to a higher level and develop military strategy, and win victories via conquest or domination (something I haven't done).
Talk to you soon!
Ah, I didn't see where they wanted to join. Sure, you're both in! And welcome to CFC stainless! Now, get yourself an avatar!
Any other thoughts on which civ to be?
I haven't played as Babylon. I know they are Scientific but I don't remember their other trait. The Unique Unit is the Bowman, which is a Super Longbow. An except for those two things, I don't know much about them.
My own preference is Random. Sure, we might get India or someone else that isn't consider Militaristic, but winning a Conquest victory with one of those is still fun.
The other trait is religious for Babylon. I also like the Ottomans, same traits as Persia, but I'm not a big fan of early Immortal rushes.
lurker's comment: India is very rarely played in SG's, but theoretically could be alot of fun. Maybe I'll start campaigning for India in my next SGFN. "India Stomps the World" has a nice sound to it. Make Conquest of a Pangaea the only acceptable victory, but with the others possible.
Most of the civs have either an Ancient or Middle Age UUs. Only America and Germany have Modern Era UUs (F-15s and Panzers). Russia and the Ottomans have the next latest UU. Cossacks and Sipahi are both Cavalry upgrades (very late Middle Ages) and so they easy overlap (and overrun!) into the Industrial Age.
None of these units will make or break the game for us. If we play well, and I expect we will, the game will be decided a long time before these units arrive on the scene.
If we take any one of these four, we will have to fight, grow and expand with only 'normal' units. But having done that once, the hard way, using the Romans or Greeks to conquer the world would be a breeze.
I agree with CBob. The Ottomans sound good.
lurker's comment: As one of the resident meddlers, I can't resist the urge to make a few comments.
If you're going for conquest, and it looks like it at this point, it can be accomplished with any civ. Some, however, will be easier than others. The question is how far out of your comfort zone you want to be, and how much of a learning experience you want this to be.
Early UUs may guarantee you a despotic GA. Knight replacements can time GAs very well, but you may want an even later GA, just so that you don't entirely overwhelm the poor AI civs when it comes in. Late (cavalry, industrial or modern age) UUs frequently come so late that they don't have a great impact on the outcome of the game, but that may be better from a learning standpoint.
Babylon is a nice enough civ, but the religious trait probably won't be all that helpful to you. The scientific trait is nice for the freebie techs, and the cheap libraries. The Bowman is decent, but it's almost going to guarantee that you get a despotic GA, though.
The Iroquois are a frequent favorite in the "Favorite Civ" threads that crop up, and for good reason. Agricultural and Commercial, they start with Alphabet and Pottery. Nothing wrong with having early granaries, extra food and starting the game one step closer to pulling off the Republic slingshot, not to mention early curraghs for exploring. The MW, of course, can rule the Ancient Age, but runs the same risk of a despotic GA. Now, if you get into republic before you start using them, that's not a problem.
China is another one of my favorites. Militaristic means cheap raxes and early archers. Industrious is one of those generally useful traits for any victory condition. The Rider is the earliest possible 3-move unit. You can get to your enemies a whole lot faster than they'll get to you. Reminds me of an old commercial: "Reach out and touch someone."
I also like the Romans, but I think I like them more than most of the players better than myself. The Roman Legion gets an extra defensive point (3/3/1), so they can be awfully tough to kill when they show up on the scene, but many of the really good players would rather pay the extra shields for an extra offensive point, rather than a defensive one. Commercial, on the other hand, means that more of your cities can skip building courthouses and concentrate on military units instead.
The Celts: Another agricultural civ, with religious. The agri trait is very powerful in C3C. More food=faster growth. More people=more gold, more shields, more units, more towns. I'm not a big fan of religious, but the Gallic Sword is hard to argue with. At 3/2/2, they match the Ancient Cavalry, and you can build them in several cities all at once (assuming you have iron).
The Ottomans were mentioned earlier. Again, scientific and industrious. Cheaper libraries and the freebie techs are nice and the Sipahi means that you won't have to worry about a despotic GA. At an 8 attack (IIRC), you should be able to slap the AI around at will. The nice thing (from a TDG perspective) about having the later UU is that you have to get through the AA (and if you choose the Ottomans, most of the MA) without getting your GA, so that part of the game is "uncluttered" by the GA.
I'd suggest staying away from the Ancient Wonders, especially the GLib. I'm going to assume that all of the players have read the 4 Rules of Wonder Addiction. I think you'll be surprised at just how fast expansion can go if you really focus on workers, settlers, and military. When you've only got (for example) 8 towns, 400 shields is a huge investment.
Just my $0.02. Good luck!
I wouldn't suggest staying away from ALL of the ancient wonders- the Statue of Zeus can be pretty good. AC's rule the Ancient Age. But the following wonders:
Collosus (Not as useless as some of the others, but not too helpful)
Temple of Artemis
Mausoleum of Mausolos
Great Lighthouse (except on archipelagos)
Pyramids (except on large pangaeas)
Great Library (At least on lower levels- on Demigod and above, or on Always War variants of Monarch and Emperor (and even Regent if the variant is one of the tougher AW variants) this wonder can be a game-saver)
Usually aren't worth the several hundred shields it takes to build them. The only reason to build some of these wonders is if you're going for a Culture victory.
As for civs, the Celts, Iroquois, Chinese, Mayans, Persians, and Ottomans are usually praised as the best civs. Feel free to play as one of these guys, but if you want a real learning experience, play as one of the medium-power civs, like Rome, Japan, or India.
lurker's comment: You're correct in many ways. SoZ isn't particuarly expensive as far as wonders go and ACs are a very nice early unit. SoZ may or may not be an option, considering the ivory requirement. Pyramids and GLib are both trememdously powerful, but also at least moderately expensive. With those caveats, I'd say that perhaps "stay away" was too strong a phrase. Don't build them, though. Capture them!
Great, it sounds like I'll be one of the players. I'm looking forward to it.
My personal preference re: civ choice. Let's go random. I think it's better to go into a game without any preconceived notions regarding the civ. Often preset ideas can blind you to alternate strategies that can be used. I'd rather get a random civ and see the start position; then develop a strategy based on what's been given to us. But that's just my personal preference. I don't have any favorite civ, so whatever's chosen will be fine with me.
I understand that some civs are favored over others when going for a military victory. Just an offside: but how do people feel about sea-faring civs? I enjoy playing them for the commerce they generate (I try focusing growth on the coast) and a lot of gold would be good support for a military.
About Wonders, I don't build too many of them. LOL . . . I know that must sound strange for a civer. They're just not something that fits into my playing style, at least not in the ancient age, but that's why I'm here - to try new things. If I had to make a suggestion re: Wonders, let's pick a good one in the middle ages. Maybe, Leo's for the upgrades (if we're going conquest victory). For me personally, I skip AA wonders, unless a great opportunity re: city production/map layout presents itself. Sometimes the only Wonder I'll build is Smiths (I find I build a lot of marketplaces, and like smiths for the upkeep).
Whatever is decided though, I think this will be a fun game and a great learning experience for me re: developing a military strategy and winning a conquest victory.
lurker's comment: Random everything except world size might be very useful as a learning experience. Develop your strategy as you go along. Maybe even decide your VC as you go along. If you grow fast, go military. If you get bogged down militarily, go space or diplo. Chances are, as you get rolling, you will likely be doing military stuff anyway. My experience in "Spain to the Stars" was that being near the Domination limit can boost any VC. With room for specialist farms, you can be scientifically dominant, and better tech wins in this game.
Hmmm, yeah, maybe, but how about we just go random, and make do with what we're gonna get? That cool with ya'll?
Random civs (for us and them) is fine with me. I think we'll be able to survive and propser.
What map size?
lurker's comment: For ease of play, I recommend standard world size. This game is most normal when played at that size. I'd say for each size bigger add half a diffculty, for each size smaller, subtract half. A Regent on a huge world is more like Monarch level. On tiny, it would be more like Warlord. 3 opponents are easier to beat than 15, 7 is the goldilocks range, just right. Other things, make sure accelerated production is off, along with culturally linked, wonder victory, and respawn opponents being off.
Standard size, random leader sounds great.
This jam is real!
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