Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by mythmonster2, Jan 8, 2008.
Okay, I'll start the game as soon as my dad lets me use the computer with Civ on it.
let's get it started and i also suggest at least monarch (emp?), it's really not that hard.
that first experience is going to be one of a kind.
i believe that, the smaller map the more difficult (>emp)it is. on larger maps You have time and sometimes (usually) space.
small, standard maps were a little bit harder.
Well, this thing is about new players taking on Regent, so sorry, Regent it is. And here is our start! (Temperate, 4 billion, Normal, 70% continents, roaming barbs, all victory conditions on except for Cultural and Wonder, both of which I hate.)
@Myth : understood, this one on regent ...later we shall see?
well Iroqs , next to the river...
few notes :
1. irrigated sugar plains does not give another food under despo.
2. there is no particular VC that we want to achieve?
3. we're in the middle of the map (almost), on regent.
4. hut will popup automatically after settling in place.
5. good luck!
Wait,I once I heard that you should mine plains and irrigate grasses and deserts, is that right?
lurker's comment: Generally, the opposite is what I've heard. Water brown, Mine green. There are exceptions, of course. Water cows and wheat, regardless of the terrain they are on. Road everything but mountains and hills.
lurker's comment: Yes, TheOverseer714 is right about the rule of thumb. Water brown, mine green. The reason is the despotism penalty. Under despotism, anything producing 3 or more of food, gold or shields gets a penalty of 1.
In this example, the plains give 1 food and the sugar adds 1. If you were to irrigate the tile, that would add 1 more food. That would mean 3 food, though, and the despotism penalty would then be applied, so you'd be back to 2 food. Same as you started with, and you would've used worker turns to accomplish this.
On the other hand, a grassland wheat or cow has 3 or more food before you ever irrigate, so the penalty has already been applied. Go ahead and water those. Does that make sense?
lurker's comment: Actually, you're quite aways north and west from the middle.
And Road Mountains and hills too, if they have a resource, or if you've already done everything else.
COM and AGI.
Not had an AGI civ before, so this will be a first for me.
Move the worker to the grass and irrigate, then road?
Move the settler SE across the river, so we'll pop the goody hut with our first expansion and have time to build a warrior, in case the hut has unfriendlies inside.
We know Alphabet, so we can build curraghs, a great help to our landlocked nation!
Pottery gives us granary, which I am sure are cheaper because of the AGI trait.
But wait, I think I see some blue to the east of the mountains, so curraghs may be of use after all.
With Regent, the Republic Slingshot should be doable.
Wish we had a luxury in sight.
We need a roster.
We need a copy of the save.
1 extra food in the city square on fresh water.
If I may meddle a little more, why irrigate? Irrigated grass under despo will still be 2 food, same as unwatered grass.
Nice fog-gazing, CBob! I can't tell if it's a river or coast, but the blue is there and either is good.
Entirely. You've got lots of riverbanks, sugar is +1 food, +1 commerce, and you've already got Alpha. (And yeah, let's hear it for curraghs!)
lurker's comment: Why move? What's wrong with your current location?
They should, but they don't.
On Regent, you can research some other techs before doing the slingshot.
No Luxes... That sux. But you might find some. You might even find some Ivory for the SoZ...
I was focused on AGI and forgot about the despotism penalty. Should Mine instead.
Actually it is fine. I was afraid of the goody hut having barbarians when we popped it. I went back to Whomp-5, where we had a goody hut next to a starting location. Here is what Whomp said in Post #38.
I had forgotten that when city borders pop a goody hut no barbarians will appear.
lurker's comment: AGI civs are wonderful to play. The extra food in the city center will allow a 4-turn settler factory in despotism with only 1 food bonus. They grow very quickly and need lots of happy juice, but you can also regulate that by pealing off settlers and workers...a very nice problem to have. The extra food also helps you get tax/science farms up and running earlier.
The related difficulty with AGI civs is trying to starve down captured enemy cities. That extra food keeps the foreign citizens alive for much longer.
What the Whompster didn't say is that that is only true if you have no military.
Edit: Sorry, I've just re-read that and I'm being less than clear.
If you settle in the current position, it is true you cannot get barbs; if you move away, then settle, you may get barbs if you have built a military unit before the expanded borders pop the hut.
One further option is to use the Worker or Settler to pop the hut - again you cannot get barbs.
Why do you want to starve down captured cities. Is there a production penalty on foreign citizens.
Do we build a Granary before cranking out Settlers.
The approach I would take for tech is to beeline Republic trading for other early techs (unless we are alone), but I would like to hear input from the experienced players. Should we avoid a tactic like that to get experience for when a Republic slingshot is not possible.
All good points about agri civs. Agri civs used to give me fits, because I had trouble managing happiness. That one extra food means that cities really do grow like weeds. As gma noted, that means extra lux spending, but also more opportunities to produce settlers and workers.
Buce, do they have to have built a military unit, or can they still pop barbs if they are building a military unit? I thought (perhaps incorrectly) that if they set the build order to something non-military (such as a granary), they wouldn't pop barbs.
Not a production penalty, but an increased flip risk. I don't know the exact mechanics, but the more foreigners a city has, the higher its flip risk. Also, any workers produced from the foreign population will come out as slaves, so they don't cost any upkeep. After starvation down to size one, any new citizens born will be of your nationality.
I'd say move the worker, plant Salamanca and see what you can see before making this decision. If those two actions reveal an area with lots of grass and a cow or two, Salamanca may not be your first choice for a settler factory.
I guess the first question would be: Are you going to be a Republic? I've been assuming that you are, but I don't guess I really know. As far as "gaining experience for when a Republic slingshot is not possible," well, let me put it this way: First of all, IMO, the slingshot is possible with this start. If you can pull off the slingshot while expanding, setting up a settler factory, relieving your neighbors of their gold and techs, & fighting a war or two, that seems like a pretty good start to me.
You can slingshot at Regent without much effort. With this start and being commercial as well as being Ag, you can't miss. You could probably do it as an AW, if you wanted.
lurker's comment: You can't get barbs from a hut if that hut is one tile from a city, or if you have no military. So you have nothing to fear from hobos coming from the hut if you settle there.
In addition, starving out the foreign citizens will reduce war weariness, especially if you are using Republic as a government. You can do a whole LOT of warmongering in Republic, but foreign citizens easily become unhappy if you stay at war with their mother country for any length of time.
As vmxa mentioned, you could do AW (Always War), but that is the one time you would NEVER want to have Republic for a government. If you plan to never make peace during the entire game, you'd want to be in Monarchy (or maybe Communism). Just my opinion, but if you are trying to improve the basics of your gameplay, I wouldn't recommend AW. It has its own special rules and unique ways to handle situations...something fun to learn AFTER you have all the basics down.
lurker's comment: Great braintrust here among the lurkers (not including me, I'm still a learner too). Foreign citizens become slaves, as long as there aren't any of your citizens as part of the cities population. Which means every time the town grows, it will delay getting rid of foreign citizens. What I do, especially as a republic, is disband obsolete units in a resisting town to fill the shield box. Even a resisting town will produce, as long as the shields are there. Once the resistance is over, I cash rush more slaves to speed things up. Pretty soon, it's a size one town and it can be allowed to grow.
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