nationalism!

Patriotism is the love of our country.
Nationalism is the hate of other countries.

Loving is good, hating is bad. If you didn't get it. Read your History books, I don't want to live again what happened already.
 
Oh you are like that... :rolleyes: Too determined to hear what others have to say. Nationalism is pride of one's country. To be proud of something does not mean that you hate everything else.
 
Originally posted by Marla_Singer
During the 20th Century, Europe killed itself because of nationalism... so yes, it's a good reason to consider nationalism as something slightly dangerous.

That's not what I was saying. Socialists must be pretty strong nationalists, I'd think.

In order for socialism to work, there must be an extreme degree of nationalism. Nazi Germany was the most economically successful socialist state that ever existed. Many Russians yearn for the fervent nationalism of the Stalin years.

By "work", I mean prolong the inevitable bloody collapse.

And please, let's not split hairs on whether or not the Nazis were socialist.
 
Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Patriotism is the love of our country.
Nationalism is the hate of other countries.

Loving is good, hating is bad. If you didn't get it. Read your History books, I don't want to live again what happened already.

:rolleyes: Patriotism is a synonym for nationalism.
 
I completely understand where Nationalism is coming from...I don't see pride as being something bad...but we should think more in terms of 'planet' rather than 'nation'.
 
Nope. You ain't right Wicked. Nationalism is a state of mind based on the idea of the superiority of your country/cuture compared to other countries/cultures. Nationalism is very often about despising other countries. I really don't understand how you can have such a great vision of NATIONALISM. Do you realize of what you're talking about ? If you want just a little tip, never mix up nationalism and patriotism.
 
Mixing nationalism and patriotism is like mixing oil and oil. They just don't mix.

Wait a minute...
 
Originally posted by thestonesfan


:rolleyes: Patriotism is a synonym for nationalism.

Rolling your eyes don't make you smarter.

According to the Collins Dictionnary :
nationalism : exagerated or fanatical devotion to a national community.
patriot : a person who vigorously supports his country and its way of life. [I}(i.e. patriotism)[/I]

Patriotism and Nationalism are total opposite. One is peaceful and loving when the other one is angry and hateful. Nationalism has destroyed Europe from 1804 to 1990. I don't consider such a thing as any good... and to see that Evil re-appeering makes me sick.
 
:rolleyes: Whatever you say, Marla. I'm sure the Nazis would never have called themselves patriotic.
 
Stonesfan. It's good to see you defending Nazism. You've never been so honnest about yourself before.
 
In order for socialism to work, there must be an extreme degree of nationalism. Nazi Germany was the most economically successful socialist state that ever existed. Many Russians yearn for the fervent nationalism of the Stalin years.

Germany was nationalist/capitalist/corporate. Corporatism goes well with capitalism. I know that your romantic view that mixes individualism necessary with capitalism forbids you to acknowledge that and I know that view point is quite sexy in some countries.

As I know that utopists are stubborn as fish, you could answer me with a deep and long resume why you think my viewpoint is so wrong.

But I acknowledge, libertarians and communists look like twins often.
 
Um, vigourously sopporting your country is the same as fanatical devotion to your nation.

Unless you mean to say that nationalism is the extreame degrea of patriotism.

My oppinion: Nationalism is a quality of a nation, patriotism is a quality of its people.
 
Originally posted by Yago


Germany was nationalist/capitalist/corporate. Corporatism goes well with capitalism. I know that your romantic view that mixes individualism necessary with capitalism forbids you to acknowledge that and I know that view point is quite sexy in some countries.

Oh yes, the Nazis loved corporations...as long as they supported the Reich...
 
Originally posted by Packer-Backer
I still say the word Nationalist should not be associated with any bad, nor Fundamentalist. Although I do think American culture as at least a little bit better than head-hunting tribes and that the American government is a least a little bit better than the Chinese government. So now am I a racist fascist? ;) :p

For the first thought yes, you are a racist, for the second, no you are not.
 
being a nationalist is no different than going ape**** and supporting your favorite sports team. its a good thing. people should support their favorite team with great enthusiasm because that helps the team do better. kinda simplistic, maybe, but I don't think its too far from the truth.

if it was not for nationalism, many countires, possibly including the USA, would have fallen apart.
 
thestonesfan:

I think you misunderstood Yago. By "Corporatism" he meant a strong state which controls most branches of society (unions, schools, employers associations, media and so on). The system Mussolini, Hitler, Franco and Peron wanted. But as for my opinion, I dont think capitalism and corporatism are mutually exclusive but corporatism certainly isn't compatible with the ideas of economic liberty. We have seen it's failure everywhere it has been implemented, the best example is perhaps Argentine.

However, this is where I agree with you.
Originally posted by thestonesfan
That's not what I was saying. Socialists must be pretty strong nationalists, I'd think.

In order for socialism to work, there must be an extreme degree of nationalism.

Here is where I agree with you. There is a certain degree of nationalism in most socialist "welfare states". Sweden is for example a socialist nation-state, not a confederacy, something the socialists will proudly point out. The nationalism is very subtle though, and most often take the form of glorification of and prejudiced belief in the superiority of one's own system.
 
Originally posted by newfangle
Since I discovered individualism, nothing else seems to compare.

I find it tough to feel pride for a collective.

Something I would agree on. I do not really see what right the state has to decide who I can buy from, why my money should go to promoting our culture or what ethnic homogeneusness is good for really.
 
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Originally posted by Marla_Singer
Patriotism is the love of our country.
Nationalism is the hate of other countries.

Loving is good, hating is bad. If you didn't get it. Read your History books, I don't want to live again what happened already.

Nationalism isn't "hate of other countries" :lol: Patriotism and nationalism are two forms of the same thing, a pride and love of one identity group (defined in terms of ethnicity, language, culture, history, etc) and the wish to advance the standing of this identity group. Its goodness and badness depend of the circumstances and the viewpoint. :p
 
Nationalism has nothing to do with hate, as said. Even if viewed as perceiving your country to be superior to others, it has nothing to do with hate. I am superior to ants and other beasts, my students, and all manner of other things that dwell on this planet. This doesn't mean I hate them because they are inferior, nor that I really give them any regard at all. Such is the same with my nation and my people. I believe and know they are better than the rest. Doesn't mean that I hate the rest, or want to gas them. And even then, the notion of regarding the nation as superior is not the same as nationalism, just one variant of it.

Equating nationalism to an extreme tangent of itself is quite erroneous; placing the likes of Garibaldi on the same pedestal with the Fuhrer is a rather perverse comparison.

You can take nationalism, put it in a black cauldron, add a host of other factors and catalysts, let in boil, and create a witches brew of Nazism or the like. An extreme byproduct is not the same as the original material.

Indeed, it takes less of the opposite ingredient, supranationalism, to create the end product of socialism and communism, which have a body count that puts Uncle Adi in the Little League, and rank just as well in the Evil 500 Index.

If anything, nationalism has saved, shaped and made Europe, particularly in the 20th century. If we look at what proceeded it, we see large monolithic supranational empires. If we remove nationalism from the course of history, and let these continental empires continue their regular wars and conflicts in combination with modern technology, then we soon get a far bigger body count. Several Great Wars, without various nationalist factors, of increasing destruction.

Nationalism did not die in 1990; if anything, that was the beginning of its rebirth, and current thriving.

The predecessor to the notion of Europe, Christendom, was not marked by any cessation of conflict or happy utopia, nor were such entities as the Holy Roman Empire.

Love and hate are simply the same emotion of extreme intensity, variant on which side of the mirror ye are on.
 
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