Need advice, monarch Sumeria

[tsohg]

Hi everyone. First I'd like to say thanks for all the great insights and useful information I've found on civ fanatics. This is the best gaming forum I've found on the internet.

On to my question. I've recently moved to monarch- been crushing Prince and want to improve my game. I'm attaching a save and I'd like some advice. Here's a rough overview of what I've done in this game:

- It's 760 AD. At the beginning, I shared a continent with Frederick and Elizabeth.
- The game gave me Sumeria and copper right outside my capital's BFC, so naturally I penned in Fred and rushed him with Vultures.

My goal during and after the war was to adopt Elizabeth's religon and be her good friend and trading partner. I was successful in adopting her religon and spreading it, I also researched Aesthetics assuming she would be interested in trading for it. I ran into two issues:

1) Elizabeth is 'not ready to begin trading' nearly all her decent techs (I assume because she doesn't have contact with other civs and has a monopoly?). Even after putting turns into Alpha she wouldn't trade it. I was forced to burn a GS on it!

2) As a creative civ I expected to outculture her. However, within 20 turns or so she overran my spice city that I recently founded (Lagash), and even stole the 3 sugars south of Kish using one of her late-built cities (Liverpool, a pathetic city)! In the save, Kish doesn't have religious buildings yet, but even after I built them it couldn't save the sugar.

How would you guys play this? My instinct is to either DOW her a little sooner than this save and raze a couple cities or use GS to rush to optics? I was shocked at how she totally out-REXed me right after my war with Fred. I think I screwed up my teching as well. Any general tips on city placement or builds would be helpful. Dunno why I'm running a GM in Kish- just noticed that- could it be the AI governor?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lymond]

1) Elizabeth is 'not ready to begin trading' nearly all her decent techs (I assume because she doesn't have contact with other civs and has a monopoly?). Even after putting turns into Alpha she wouldn't trade it. I was forced to burn a GS on it!Thanks in advance.

Using a GS to bulb Alpha is a huge waste. An Academy in your cap would probably be a better use or saving it to bulb something better. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by Liz not trading Alpha. She doesn't have it yet. It may be wise to put some turns in Monarchy and trade her Alpha for it. You need to be in HR BADLY.

2) As a creative civ I expected to outculture her. However, within 20 turns or so she overran my spice city that I recently founded (Lagash), and even stole the 3 sugars south of Kish using one of her late-built cities (Liverpool, a pathetic city)! In the save, Kish doesn't have religious buildings yet, but even after I built them it couldn't save the sugar.

Lagash looks to be fine. You will like take back some land soon. While Creative is a great tech for the free border pops and good building bonuses, it is not that strong in the long run as far as culture. You will need additional culture buildings on your borders to maintain them. Cheap Libraries help a lot. Regardless, initially an AI city can push in on you a bit but you will get it backi.

How would you guys play this? My instinct is to either DOW her a little sooner than this save and raze a couple cities or use GS to rush to optics? I was shocked at how she totally out-REXed me right after my war with Fred. I think I screwed up my teching as well. Any general tips on city placement or builds would be helpful. Dunno why I'm running a GM in Kish- just noticed that- could it be the AI governor?

Since basically you are in a state of semi-isolation at this point, it may be best to keep Liz around for a while for tech trading. I'm really surprised how poor the research has been in this game, even Liz is not doing well. Alpha going very late. It appears you war with Fred may have been a bit of a grind, but it's hard for me to tell at this point. Best to get those finished asap so you can recover your economy. At least you have currency, so you can build wealth.

The unhappiness situation is concerning. You need HR but in the meantime you need to whip off that unhappiness to get in key infrastructure. Also, you probably need a good GP farm to really crank out some GS's - I do see you have the TGL in Uruk with the NE coming in soon. Don't run to many unhappies for long - you pay for them. Don't forget about whip overflow to put into wonders and such.

Once you reach Monarch, you do need to be a bit more selective in your tech path. Aesth can be a good option for trading and to go for the Great Library. However, if the AI does not have Alpha yet you just may have to research yourself to start building research.

I would look to take out Liz at some point. You need the land.

 

[tsohg]

Liz is not doing well. Alpha going very late. It appears you war with Fred may have been a bit of a grind, but it's hard for me to tell at this point. Best to get those finished asap so you can recover your economy. At least you have currency, so you can build wealth.

The unhappiness situation is concerning. You need HR but in the meantime you need to whip off that unhappiness to get in key infrastructure. Also, you probably need a good GP farm to really crank out some GS's - I do see you have the TGL in Uruk with the NE coming in soon. Don't run to many unhappies for long - you pay for them. Don't forget about whip overflow to put into wonders and such.

Thanks for taking the time to look at it Lymond. I must admit that HR is a civic I haven't placed enough emphasis on. The tech situation really bamboozled me. Basically, I expected her to have Alpha at roughly the same time I finished Aesthetics. Unfortunately, it took her forever and I was at a loss as to what to go for next. It seems I should prioritize Monarchy and Calendar(?) to improve my economy then shore up my borders with religious buildings to keep her culture at bay.

I intend Uruk to be the GP farm (hence TGL), there wasn't an awesome GP farm spot up north so I just defaulted to the capital.

Some of my comments were based on what happened in the next 150 years after the save I posted- sorry about not making that clear. When she didn't get alpha quickly and trade it to me I started twisting in the wind strategically (especially with tech priority). Teching construction early without intending to go to war seems like a mistake, for example.

EDIT:
Also, due to my poor teching, there was a period where I had nothing to build in my cities, not even research or wealth. I think upping the difficulty changed my play style (for the worse), relying too much on using a reluctant trading partner in a semi-isolated start.

It appears you war with Fred may have been a bit of a grind, but it's hard for me to tell at this point.

He had a lot of cities (5 or 6) by the time I finished him. I razed two or three because my economy was starting to crash and they weren't very good. That said, with a stack of vultures I think I killed him pretty efficiently.

 

[tsohg]

Just replayed a few turns. Looks like Liz dropped a GA into Liverpool to create a great work and steal those three sugar. Very annoying.