Negotiations with MIA

[zyxy]

First of all, thanks Robi D and Vikingruler for reviving this. Let's hope it will bear fruit.

I like the trade deal, it's pretty fair. However, writing for 3 techs might be too much to ask for. writing is very valuable but 3 techs. like zyxy said we have bw the other two techs is possible. i'm behind the trade 100%. I would also like to volunteer to be our representative at the summit. I have an AIM address so I could talk that way. however, it would be my first time doing something like this, so i would need so more intel on what to say.

It would be great if you could chat with them. The main purpose s far as I can see is to learn what they intend to give for Writing, and see if it gets close to what we want to have. Apparently they will only tell us in a chat.
The minimum I would like to get for Writing is Warrior Code and Wheel, so that we can research HBR. We can do without Ceremonial Burial for a while, it is a cheap tech and not essential for our survival.

 

[vikingruler]

Okay sure, how about I say we offer writing, we want Warrior code and the Wheel and if possible Cerominal Burial if they are willing. Would you mind if we put a little bit of our gold, I'm not sure how much we have, but 10-20 would probably be enough.

I just need the MIA delegates AIM addresses and a time frame.

 

[zyxy]

Sounds good. You can always hint at gold, see what they say. The new save just arrived, it would be good if you could chat with them before I have to play (some 22 hrs from now).
AIM of EmpNapoleon, Kentharu and fe3333au are on the previous page: emperornapoloen (might be typo), Kentharu1 and fe3333au.

 

[DaveShack]

Well, I had MSN and AIM going just in case someone was actively looking for us, and had the following chat with Kentharu. This is my first attempt at chat diplomacy so be gentle with your criticism.

Kentharu says: hi there
DaveShack says: hi
Kentharu says: your from Doughnut right?
DaveShack says: yes, has anyone contacted you yet? I've been setting up my system with more chat options in case nobody else has gotton around to it yet
Kentharu says: nope no one
Kentharu says: so can we talk now, before it is to late?
Kentharu says: once it is fine with you of course
DaveShack says: certainly
DaveShack says: we are interested in a deal involving writing and have been hoping to hear what you're willing to offer
Kentharu says: perhaps the wheel and cerimonial burial is a good trade?
Kentharu says: seeing as the wheel is a valuable tech, leading to riding
Kentharu says: what do you think?
DaveShack says: that may be what we were thinking, just a sec while I check the forum
Kentharu says: take your time sir
DaveShack says: would warrior code and the wheel be acceptable?
Kentharu says: warrior code would be valuable also to you, since i assume you are having trouble with another team
Kentharu says: i hope i am not wrong to assume?
DaveShack says: some folks with blue clothing are acting in a most unfriendly manner
DaveShack says: a favorable trade now might give us confidence to return the favor in a future trade
DaveShack says: I would certainly argue in that direction
Kentharu says: as i would, and it would ensure our future trade perhaps, i do think warrior code and wheel is fair for writting, but my team may not be so inclined
Kentharu says: they think the wheel would suffice
DaveShack says: we could each ask our team to consider the options further. the first thought on our side was 3 techs for writing but the more level headed among us convinced the greedy ones that it would be quite insulting to suggest that note: a little poetic license on my part, please don't be offended... don't know if it showed up on the other end of the chat anyway
Kentharu says: sorry bout that, happens sometimes (cruddy computer)
DaveShack says: no problem, I gather that means your connection dropped
Kentharu says: for a moment
DaveShack says: so there are two main possibilities, either CB+wheel or WC+wheel. we would obviously prefer WC which gets to HBR first but I'll post a question to the team to see what they think
Kentharu says: as will i
DaveShack says: if we continue cooperating, then we'll both eventually have access to Republic way before the others, which is a big advantage to a potential long-term alliance
Kentharu says: and in keep both of us alive
DaveShack says: are you permitted to say if you've had any other contacts? I checked with the admins and they say that is OK, just not brokering deals...
Kentharu says: no new contacts
Kentharu says: and you?
DaveShack says: just those blue-clad folks (Persia = TNT)
Kentharu says: hopefully TNT isn't to aggressive
DaveShack says: it will be interesting to see how they behave given the forum tone
DaveShack says: given Rik's warning however I expect things to calm down a lot
Kentharu says: so i would hope, but you never know
Kentharu says: now, at the risk of sounding rude, is that all?
DaveShack says: I was struggling with how to ask the same question
DaveShack says: nothing more for now, looking forward to talking again
Kentharu says: lol, cool, latter then good luck with TNT
​

 

[Robi D]

I've also had a chat with MIA's ambassador kentharu. Since it was pretty much along the same lines as daveshacks conversation, i wont post it here (unless you want me to, i saved it just in case), but there were two extra things i brought up. One was the possiblities of other tech trades. They said they have nothing at the moment. I brought up that we have philo, since they already knew we were researching it anyway for them to keep in mind. Secondly i discussed the possiblities of a non-agression pact, not because it really matters to much at the moment with them being on another continent, but more to assure them that we are not looking to attack them. So basically atm there discussing wheather to trade wheel and WC or wheel and CB. I know we are all happy with the first trade but are there any thoughts on the second possibility?

 

[zyxy]

DS and Robi,

I think WC + Wheel is acceptable. Wheel+CB is very meagre, I don't know about that. Only the Wheel is ridiculous. They obviously try to take advantage of the situation, maybe we should research some stuff ourselves.

Btw, I really don't understand the purpose of these chats. Their ambassador told us what they might give for Writing, but half of the options he gave are apparently not backed by his people and the status of the other half is unclear.
The only other thing that happened is that they were fishing about our relation with TNT, so is that what this chat was all about?

Maybe we should send them a letter to lower our offer to wheel+warrior code for writing, perhaps with a deadline in three days or so. See what they do.

 

[Robi D]

Well from what i can gather from the two talks they seem to be trying to get a little extra given our situation. It seems strange to me that they worry that giving us wheel and WC gives us a quick jump to HB riding, but at the same time don't feel the need to sign a non-agression pact because we are on different continents. If we were to except wheel and CB i would expect 30gold on top of that as a minimum, but even then i would only be half happy with the offer.

 

[vikingruler]

Seeing as DS and Robi D have already had a chat, that no offense didn't insure the trade to go through. I'll be willing to chat around 3:00-4:30 my time, (22 hours like zyxy suggested) and propose writing plus 10 or 15 gold for WC+ Wheel. How about that?

 

[Robi D]

With the forum back on i expect to hear from MIA soon. There is 2 possible replys they can give us atm, so here are my suggestions of what we should do.

1. They offer WC and wheel for writing.

We say thank you very much and get on with the game.


2. They offer CB and wheel for writing.

War or not this in my opinion is not a good deal, but since we need a deal i propose that we send the back two options for them to choose from, them being

A. CB + wheel + 60 gold for writing
or
B. WC + wheel for writing + 20 gold

Even though i dont think the 20 gold is justified, we need WC and wheel so we can get on with researching other stuff. So tell me what you think of the suggested responses and whether they need to be ammended or not.

 

[DaveShack]

I like it, but what if they don't have 60 gold? How low should we go? Should we trust them with something like 5gpt for 12 turns?

 

[Robi D]

I like it, but what if they don't have 60 gold? How low should we go? Should we trust them with something like 5gpt for 12 turns?

I hope they dont have 60 gold, then they will have to opt for the WC and wheel, but they might offer 3gpt for 20 turns. All in all i think thats an even swap even without the 20g, so they should consider that as a bonus. I dont think we should just give away techs even in our current position, because we can outgrow everyone. Hopefully they go for wheel and WC straight away so we don't have to worry about it.

 

[DaveShack]

This was received in the gmail inbox.

Dear Members of the Doughnuts

In the spirit of Trust and Goodwill, we need to clear up a possible misunderstanding:

During a discussion with DaveShack, our Ambassador Kentharu stated that we had made no new contacts. While his answer was technically correct, on reviewing the chatlog it became evident that it was misleading.

Ambassador Kentharu has instructed that this information be corrected prior to the commencement of official business. MIA have met KISS and it occured soon after our first contact with you. We do not want to give you a wrong impression, however one could easily surmise the type of relationship with KISS by remembering where MIA had to turn to for Pottery.

Next ... The topic of Technical Trade. Unfortunately due to the time taken for parley, Writing is now no longer an option as we will have it very soon.

I hope that you do not take this the wrong way, but we feel that MIA is holding a better hand. You have but to calculate yourselves, the time it would take you to research all the military technology required for your UU, found a city near a horse resource, road it and connect it to other cities and All this before the first of your Horse Warriors can begin training.

The figures paint an unacceptable scenario, we fear that by that time you have teched up, the Doughnuts will surely have TNT Immortals at your doorsteps and probably stamping on your memory.

Philosophy for us is not very interesting by itself as you would have already gained the free tech bonus.

So what we want from you is the name of the free technology that you received and also your current research. This will be a goodwill gesture to match our correction about contact information.

I hope that you can see that MIA is eager to assist you against an aggressor, however Doughnuts will need to offer a fair deal.

We have been fair and honest and upfront and now expect the same.


Regards and eagerly awaiting a prompt reply.

Wishing that sanity prevails.


Emperor.Napoleon - Foreign Minister
Kentharu - Doughnut Ambassador
Feaurius III - Foreign Affairs Scribe

 

[Nobody]

They have a point. immortals are nasty

 

[admiral-bell]

we're doomed unfortuanately

 

[zyxy]

we're doomed unfortuanately

Yeah, we're definitely members of the "less than 25% chance to win" club. If MIA is in trouble with KISS, then we may not be alone there .

 

[vikingruler]

this really sucks. the way i see we have two options.
1. We build tons of military units and kick the crap out of TNT, razing everything.
2. We make a trade deal with MIA, get MW and kill TNT.

Either way TNT must be killed, I suggest soon. I would be willing to chat and make a trade, I can do it tommorow afternoon.

 

[Robi D]

I have sent this response off to MIA

To our friends and MIA,

I thank you for your directness and openness of your letter now I shall return the favour. It is true we are in a difficult position, but not an impossible one. For us it was obvious from the start that the greater difficultly would be dealing with TNT and KISS as the celts and persians would have an advantage early in the game with their traits and uu's.

However we believe if we if MIA and Doughnut co operate we can overcome these short term disadvantages. While writing may no longer be an option we have two other techs that we can trade with you, they are philosophy and code of laws.

We are both eager and willing to trade these technologies with you in a FAIR AND EQUITABLE TRADE. Our position may be difficult but understand that we will not give these techs away without something of equal value in return.

Now it is your turn to tell us what techs you have so we can begin negotiations as soon as possible. I'm sure if both sides come in to the negotiations willing to trade fairly they will be successful, just as im sure that if we continue to cooperate both of our nations can have a long and successful future.

Thank you for your time and we look forward to hear from you shortly

Robi D

Foreign Affair Consul for Doughnutia

 

[Nobody]

we're doomed unfortuanately

Dont be such a pessimist. I still say we need to send out peace fellers even if we have no intention of making peace. If we see how eger they are for peace, we can see how strong they are. Lets say we offer, A stright Peace, with them removing there warrior from near us. Its insulting to them but if we do it in a most kiss ass way, then they will reply forcefully with what they want for peace and we will see their true intentions. Remever they can see us we cant see them. Also so killing that warrior and then sending the message the same turn could work well. To intimdate them (even in a small way).

Then again negoating and planing could all be useless because 10 Immortals could walk over that hill anytime and bury us.

 

[DaveShack]

I propose a full-out tech sharing agreement with MIA. Each team to fully and fairly inform the other about all tech acquisitions, research settings, and slider settings. Mutually agreed order of research to avoid overlaps, and each team gives the other the newly researched or acquired tech at most n turns after it is researched. Add in a mechanism to ensure neither side gets an extremely good or bad deal, and voila we're in each others back pockets for a while. They seem to be inviting this, maybe the next gestures of good will should be to tell each other the current gross income rates.

 

[DaveShack]

Received this offer via gmail

Dear Doughnuts

If you feel secure that TNT is not this very moment sending hordes and hordes of their deadly Immortals racing down to your cities ... and are comfortable to research your UU technology path in a more relaxed and leisurely fashion, then we should stop wasting our respective diplomats valuable time.

Else Our proposal is this ...
MIA next turn ... we send with accept
>Wheel
>Warrior Code

Nuts next turn ... you to send with accept
>Philosophy

Later (when we have Writing) when instructed ... you will send with accept
>Code of Laws

Also just to repeat, but you should already know, we have in addition Iron Working and Ceremonial Burial


Yours sincerely and hopefully friends


MIA Foreign Department

Emperor.Napoleon - Foreign Minister
Kentharu - Doughnut Ambassador
Feaurius III - Aide and Scribe to the Department

My opinion is that they ask way too much for these two techs, and either are not sincere or think they have an awfully strong negotiating position.