Negotiations with MIA

[Robi D]

I just had a short informal chat with emp.napolean on msn. We didn't get into serious discussion as i didn't have a lot of time and he wasn't to forthcoming, but they are interested in working out some trades with us. We didn't get into details, i outlined some posiblities like CoL-Lit ect. They will get back to us shortly but it would be good to have an opinion on what you think are good trades deals. Here are a couple of rough ideas to get us started.

CoL + 20g FOR Lit.
Mason + Math FOR MM

This doesn't mean we wouldn't try for better deals, but just want what would be acceptable in everyones mind.

 

[zyxy]

Robi D, good that you started this! Let's see if MIA understands their own position.

Both trades are ok I think, though I like the second one better. I would prefer not to pay gold (rather use it for warrior upgrades), but 20g is not much. CoL for Lit would be a fair deal by their own standards .

Any idea what they are researching? He wouldn't say I guess .

 

[Robi D]

Robi D, good that you started this! Let's see if MIA understands their own position.

Both trades are ok I think, though I like the second one better. I would prefer not to pay gold (rather use it for warrior upgrades), but 20g is not much. CoL for Lit would be a fair deal by their own standards .

Any idea what they are researching? He wouldn't say I guess .

He feigned ignorance . He would said he didn't know whether writing was finished or not, seems you know more about their techs than he does .

He did brighten up a bit when he asked what kind of trades we were looking at, and i mentioned a swap along CoL-Lit lines. I wouldn't want to give them gold either, maybe 10, 20 is like a last resort maximum.

 

[Robi D]

I got a message that MIA wants a meeting. No doubt their "discovery" of masonry has prompted interest on their part for a trade with us. I haven't ran into them yet but running through some of the possiblities i'd like to know everyones opinions for the following trades;

Masonry + 20g for Philosophy
Masonry + 15g For Horseback Riding

These are minimum amounts that i'm proposing, in negotiations i would ask for more to begin with, but i want to know what everyone thinks is the absolute minimum for the above trades.

 

[zyxy]

Both look good to me as minimum. I prefer the first, as we've already traded Philo away.

 

[DaveShack]

I agree, philosophy would be the preferred trade, and start with more gold.

 

[vikingruler]

I agree with DS. HBR would give them an advantage over perhaps KISS. But philosphy doesn't provide any improvements or units except MoM, but the odds of a wonder being built now are probably slim.

 

[Robi D]

Quick Update- Tlaked to emp.napolean today but apprently it MIA's ambassador kentharu who i need to talk to about the deal since the emp. doesn't know much about it

It strikes me as odd that the FA minsiter doesn't know ANYTHING about the deal, but so be it. I talk to kentharu when i see him

 

[vikingruler]

I recieved a PM from Kentharu, saying he wants to talk, and I would love to do it. Of course, Robi D if you want to do it that would be fine with me, but I would love to do it however.

 

[Robi D]

I recieved a PM from Kentharu, saying he wants to talk, and I would love to do it. Of course, Robi D if you want to do it that would be fine with me, but I would love to do it however.

If you see him, by all means talk to him, see what he has to say.
I think a resonable starting point for us is masonry + 40g for philo, if its a definate no then 30g.

 

[Robi D]

Sorry if i haven't been posting as regularly, but work + uni exams = not much free time. Anyway i had a talk with kentharu yesterday and dicussed some trade possiblities (sorry i forgot to save the chat log). He did most of the talking. His offer for a trade is Mason + Lit + MM + 30g for HBR + Math + Curr. Now i know we already have a deal with KISS for Mason - HBR but but we i think the rest of the deal is still workable as we are already committed to do math + curr to swap with kiss for Rep so getting lit and MM +30g would be a bonus. I saw we stopped researched for a turn or two but for some reason i can't see the thread 54 turns + for some reason anymore???

Anyway, tell me what you think of the offer and if its workable i.e. Lit + MM for Math + Curr. ( i will be asking for 40g first up). Also my last exams on friday so i should be back to normal posting after that and the parties that weekend

 

[zyxy]

They don't want CoL, because they suddenly have it already. I no longer believe the story that MIA and KISS are not trading, this cannot be goodie hut luck anymore.

It may even be that they set us up, MIA playing the bad guy, KISS playing the good guy. The fact that nobody on our team has any MP experience is hurting us badly....

We haven't heard anything about the republic deal anymore, I guess? Is there a set agreement? Of course, it may have been just a setup to deter us from researching it ourselves. Btw, masonry is still not known to KISS it seems.

-----------------

I honestly do not know what to do about this. If MIA and KISS are in it together, then KISS will win, no matter what we do - well, they probably win anyway. It does not make sense to research or get techs like currency and math unless it can be traded for republic. The only thing that can save us is a deal with both KISS and MIA, but I guess we will not get it.

-------------

On to the current deal:
Mason+Lit+MM = 4 + 10 + 12 = 26
HBR + Math + Curr = 5 + 8 + 16 = 29

As usual, a deal where we are giving up way more then we get. 30 gold is small compensation. On top of that, Lit is optional and we do not need any of these techs really (except for HBR). Not a very good deal, I would say.


Good luck on your exams!

 

[Robi D]

Well i haven't seen anyone from KISS, but i would suppose the deal is still on, i will try to catch one of them in the next day or so. The bit that stuns me is KISS doesn't have masonry, if thats the case then what did they get from the trade with MIA, plus now they have CoL, something strange is going on that isn't in any MP textbook. Also MIA must have got mason from TNT, i know they have met them (classic hero's label kinda gives that one away) but then what did TNT get? Interestingly kentharu was eager to point out they have gold when making the offer, so maybe that says something, but what i don't know.

I agree curr. isn't of much use to us at the moment, but math gives us cat's which we will need for defending, because given the immo's att strength some will get through, if not this time than next.

 

[Kuningas]

I have not played civ3 games for awhile. Is it possible to steal techs through embassy? Maybe they got philo from goody hut and stole CoL from KISS.

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

Ya, but where would they get the embassy money from?

 

[Robi D]

As far as MIA offer goes i can go for two options to improve it.

1 Techs stay the same but ask for 80 gold

2. Instead of Curr we offer them Poly

Edit- The other option is obviously to say no thanks and hope we can pop masonry from one of the huts, that way we wouldn't have to give anyone HBR.

Edit 2- The other thing is that if we can get Rep. from KISS for mason + Math + Curr then staying with the original MIA offer makes sense since we would be getting a 2fer

What do you think is the best way to go?

 

[Emp. Killyouall]

got masonry... there goes that down the drain...

 

[DaveShack]

The following PM's were sent and received. Hope I didn't screw anything up...
=============================

Upon closer review of current events, the 1st trade in this deal is no longer valid as we have the tech you were going to give. Can't believe I didn't notice that before sending my first response.

We are indeed very interested in continuing trade talks. As I indicated in my earlier PM, there has been a misunderstanding and it appears we were both waiting for the other to respond. Perhaps we should continue with using PMs or email to the standard team address, which seem to be much more reliable. Also we have each shown the other that we understand the relative values of technology, so maybe we should avoid proposing one-sided deals and stick with mutually beneficial trades. That is the path to mutual trust.

Regards, DaveShack

There may have been a misunderstanding. Our diplomats reported difficulty finding your representatives online for a chat, and we appear to have incorrectly interpreted that difficulty as a lack of interest in this trade.

I will post the contents of this note in our current turn thread for action. It may not be appropriate to demand we send all three exchanges pre-accepted. I must say however that I have been "distracted" by other events, not the least of which are work and my son's birthday tomorrow, so have not kept current with our internal discussion on this matter, so cannot guarantee anything for this turn which may have already been sent.

For that matter I'm not sure who has the turn right now. If it arrives at MIA without the indicated trade, a show of good faith on your part would be to send Masonry with accept so we can complete that part of the deal on our next turn. If I'm wrong about our acceptance of the deal and we decide not to complete it, I will personally instruct our turnplayer to handle the transaction appropriately (or play the turn myself) so we don't receive it unjustly.

With hope for continued friendship,

DaveShack
Minister of Internal Affairs, Doughnutia

Dear Doughnuts

It has been quite sometime since our last contact ... during this meeting you professed an eagerness to produce a technology trading deal ...

Yet much time has passed and we find ourselves yet again awaiting some form of official response from you ...

In lieu of your frustrating form of diplomacy we have penned the words for the document for your perusal ...

Technolgy Swapping Agreement

1. D-Nuts will send (with accept) MIA the skill of Horse Back Riding and we will in turn send Masonry
2. D-Nuts will send (with accept) MIA Mathematics and we will in turn send you Map Making
3. D-Nuts will send (with accept) MIA Currency and we will in turn send Literacy

We word it such since we now require a show of good faith from your part.

You have one turn to respond else we shall conclude that you are indeed finding pleasure in wasting our time.

Sincerely

Kentharu(the slightly slow)
Feaurius III - Deputy Foreign Minister (AIM=fe3333au)

 

[Robi D]

I recieved the same message and have sent one in return

Geetings MIA,

I do apologise for the delay, i have had exams so i haven't been online as regularly as i would have liked. As far as the proposed deal goes, we have had the good fortune to get Masonry. However this does not mean we are not interested in persuing other deals with you. We would be happy to trade Maths for Literacy with you once we both have discovered them.

You can respond by PM with your answer, but i should also be online more often now that my exams are finished

Robi D
Foreign Affairs Consul, Doughnutia

 

[Robi D]

We have a deal

Just don't know which one... yet!

I ran into fe3333au again and we had a chat about the deals on offer. Depending on MIA's hut popping they are prepared to trade tech in straight swaps, no gold involved.

If they get Math for hut then they will swap Math for HBR

If they dont get Math then they will swap Lit for Math.

Both deals are in our favour tech value wise,( HBR=5, Math=8, Lit=10) so i didn't argue

The chat log is posted below with chit chat removed for your convienience

fe3333au: So things good with you?
RobiD77: yeah, busy but good
fe3333au: MIA would love to enter a trade for Lit and Maths
RobiD77: ok, i guess the hut didn't work out then
fe3333au: not sure ... I am not turn taker
RobiD77: i see, so what do you propose for a lit - math trade
fe3333au: But in principal we agree to trade Lit for Maths ... if we get it first we will swap it to you for HBR
RobiD77: ok, no probs, has your team drafted any terms for the trade
fe3333au: No thought we'd do a straight swap
RobiD77: ok no problem, if you get math from hut, we can swap straight awy then, however if its a math lit swap then we should be able to complete research by around turn 70
fe3333au: Of course I'd create a parchment like we did for Pottery
RobiD77: sure, thats not aproblem
fe3333au: So we are agreeing to swap techs at a time when we both have them
fe3333au: We do not expect you to send it before we are ready
RobiD77: that seem resonable, how long would it take you guys to do lit
fe3333au: Not 100% sure I will have to get back to you with that ... my explorer is acting up and crashing
fe3333au: Do you want me to PM it to you or wait until you are AIMable
RobiD77: thats no good, i had a problem with it not too long ago
fe3333au: I hate Bill Gates
RobiD77: you can PM me if you like, i'm not 100% sure about maths, i would have to check that, but it should be done around 70 give or take a turn

... after this we chatted about the big game tonight (GO AUSTRALIA !!!) before he had to leave