[RD] Neoliberals Tour America Looking for Answers; it Turns Out the Truth was in Their Hearts All Along

[Lexicus]

Bush didn't act alone, she voted to invade

As we all know, hers was the deciding vote, by far more important than any other vote in Congress.

 

[metalhead]

A sample size of one ins't all that enlightening.

The counterpoint being that the bland centrist candidates also win sometimes.

If all the left needed was progressive candidates, Zephyr Teachout would be a sitting House member. Rob Quist too. The point is, ideology is not the problem. Persuadeable voters aren't particularly ideological - that's what makes them persuadeable.

 

[Lexicus]

If all the left needed was progressive candidates, Zephyr Teachout would be a sitting House member. Rob Quist too. The point is, ideology is not the problem. Persuadeable voters aren't particularly ideological - that's what makes them persuadeable.

Ideology can be part of the problem, though. Or, perhaps "posture" would be a better way to put it. There a lot of people out there who didn't vote for Clinton not because she wasn't ideologically left-wing enough, but because her posture wrt to the elites made her promises to stand with ordinary Americans against those elites not credible to many people. We need people who believe what they say and, to some extent anyway, practice what they preach.

I do like "posture" rather than ideology. Applying the concept to Sanders, we can see that his posture, both in 2016 and historically, made it difficult for black voters to see his appeals as credible. Clinton had the black vote so locked down in the primary not because she took a particular ideological stand, but because she had the long history of working with black institutions and for black causes. "Posture" is probably not the best word for this given the negative connotations of "posturing" but, I hope you can still get what I'm driving at.

 

[Berzerker]

As we all know, hers was the deciding vote, by far more important than any other vote in Congress.

why does that matter?

she could have led a 'peace' movement but she wanted to run for Prez, so she sacrificed all those people for her political ambitions - vote for her, she's the morally superior candidate

and if that aint bad enough, many of her supporters are actually mad at people for not voting for her

 

[Lexicus]

why does that matter?

It matters because you continually bring this issue up as though the Iraq War was Hillary Clinton's personal fault. I have explained to you repeatedly how utterly loony that characterization is and yet here you are again acting like it was Hillary Clinton's personal fault.

 

[Berzerker]

her vote is her personal fault
her support for the Bush crowd is her personal fault

 

[Lexicus]

her vote is her personal fault
her support for the Bush crowd is her personal fault

I agree with you, but only a very ignorant person would believe that either of those things actually played much of a role in causing the war. Hilary Clinton was one of 90+ Senators (forget the exact number) who voted for the war and one of tens of millions of US citizens who supported it. Her degree of culpability is higher than most, but quite low compared to other people (almost all of them in the Bush Administration).

 

[Berzerker]

I agree with you, but only a very ignorant person would believe that either of those things actually played much of a role in causing the war. Hilary Clinton was one of 90+ Senators (forget the exact number) who voted for the war and one of tens of millions of US citizens who supported it. Her degree of culpability is higher than most, but quite low compared to other people (almost all of them in the Bush Administration).

I dont care if other people wanted to invade Iraq, her 'duty' was to tell the truth and to resist them - she joined them instead so she could run for Prez

and this is the morally superior candidate the Democrats dumped on our doorstep?

shame on them... and they look down their noses at the rest of us for not welcoming her into our homes?

 

[Lexicus]

I dont care if other people wanted to invade Iraq, her 'duty' was to tell the truth and to resist them - she joined them instead so she could run for Prez

and this is the morally superior candidate the Democrats dumped on our doorstep?

shame on them... and they look down their noses at the rest of us for not welcoming her into our homes?

I guess the really funny thing is that given her opponent was Donald Trump, the answer to your question is: yes, this was the morally superior candidate, and if you didn't vote for her you did a bad thing and should feel bad

 

[Berzerker]

I guess the really funny thing is that given her opponent was Donald Trump, the answer to your question is: yes, this was the morally superior candidate, and if you didn't vote for her you did a bad thing and should feel bad

Why was she morally superior to Trump? I didn't vote for either of them, but I should feel bad? Maybe Bernie's supporters should feel bad then, they weakened her allowing for the morally superior candidate lol to lose. The sense of entitlement is the really funny thing.

 

[Lexicus]

Why was she morally superior to Trump?

Suffice it to say that I'm treating this as a self-evidently valid proposition right now.

I didn't vote for either of them, but I should feel bad?

Yes, you should feel bad.

Maybe Bernie's supporters should feel bad then, they weakened her allowing for the morally superior candidate lol to lose.

This is a slanderous lie, ironically put about by the very people you are attempting to critique here (uncritical Hillary supporters)

 

[Berzerker]

Suffice it to say that I'm treating this as a self-evidently valid proposition right now.

crickets

Yes, you should feel bad.

I voted for the morally superior candidate - you voted for a lying scumbag who helped get a bunch of people killed to further her political ambitions

This is a slanderous lie, ironically put about by the very people you are attempting to critique here (uncritical Hillary supporters)

Its a slanderous lie to say a divisive primary challenge from Bernie weakened Hillary? And only Hillary's supporters believe that? I believe that and I'm not even a Democrat.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

She voted to invade a country and kill people. He touched a woman once. He's clearly the morally inferior choice.

Well... and all that stuff about trying to turn all of Scotland into a golf course.